bgfireman

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I know that this question is close to the same post above, but has anyone flown this plane with a 120 4 stroke. I have a saito 120 and love the looks of this plane.
Thanks
Alan

MaxThrottle

Well few questions;
What type of flying are you expecting?
Is it a new 120?
If you've had it for a while what have you been getting out of the engine Prop& RPM?

Best guess, since I've never used the older Saito120... the engine will fly the plane. You'll be happier in this case to keep the plane as lite as you can (under 10 lbs, lite 70oz+ servos, 4.8V battery, lite engine mount) with a 16X6 or 4 prop. You should still end up above the edge of hover. If you get up to 11 lbs you can still 3D but no punch out from a hover.

Personally I'd put a bigger engine in but start with the 120 and then pony up later. It doesn't take a lot of engine to get this plane to dance.

Deathbunny_SG

My Feedback: (6)

People are getting right around 10 lb setups with brillelli and evo gassers, they both weigh in around 45 oz including muffler and ei. With a saito 120 or 125 I would think right around 9 lbs or even a bit less should be possible?

bgfireman

My Feedback: (13)

I bought the saito used, but I don't think it was used very much. It is a older version with a choke on it, and the muffler that came with it was about 5 inches long verses the new one that is about 2 and a half. Currently it is on a showtime 90. I have a 15X8 Master air screw on it now. We checked the rpms at over 10,000 the other day. It is very fast and will climb out of site. I am not much of a 3d flyer at this time. Most of what I have flown in the past were warbirds.
Thanks Alan

MaxThrottle

The show time is 8-9 lbs this is a 9-10 lb. Not too big a difference, but wow a 120 at 10K...was that on 30%?
Han... what did your AUW come in at. It should come out the same since the OS 120 and the Saito 120 are close to the same weight.

I was surprised that Sailing came in at 10.2 lbs with his gasser. Thats great and I wish I built as well. With my 160 I came in at 10.5lbs. The only thing different was the Robart hinges for the rudder and the Graphtec landing gear, Dubro Isolated engine mount. The run time I'm getting onthe tank I can cut the tank from 24 to 18oz.
Yukonblue came in at 12lbs, AirTech at 11lbs and has been shaving since. I can't find anyone elses AUW specially for the OS120AX or the Saito 125's.

Han actually says he rockets out of sight on his 120. Sorry Missed that. Sounds like you'll be fine if you can get your 120 to push a 15X8 and 10K. That's running a grand over recommended RPM and 1/2 a horse power above what horizon says you can get out of it. But then like we said, you don't need huge power to fly this bird.

bgfireman

My Feedback: (13)

Max,
Now that you mention it, It was a 14X6 not the 15x8 that we tested that day. So I don't know what the 15x8 turns up to. As for AUW I have no idea. As for fuel, now that I remeber the correct prop size, is 15% Cool Power. I would go to 30%, but my OS 46AX may not like that high a percentage. I don't want to have to carry to kinds of fuel to the field.
Thanks for the advice guys,
Alan

apriliamille

My Feedback: (1)

hi.

i have a question which might be a little silly but curiousity is killing the cat. i received my baby extra this week, i am in the brillelli wait line so i still have some time before i can dig in and get going.

this is my first gas plane, the nitro planes i have done i have always used what the manufacture recommendations are for the engine and have had no situation occur with figuring out engine centering or what not since i have had literal direct bolt in situations.

i wasnt sure if a reply or quote of a post will work since i dont have a digital camera. my question involves the firewall and to get an idea would be to look at zippi's post 136 on page 6. the picture of the firewall is what my question is about.

from reading the assembly directions that came with the plane i am to utilize the cowel in the alignment of the engine which i assume will put the engine in the center of the firewall. however i notice that the hole in the firewall is not centered. what is the purpose of this hole? at first i thought it was for carberater lines and linkages but then i realize that if i sit inside the cockpit and look forward with the engine the carb will be on the fuse right side.

MaxThrottle

Had the same issue when I started:
The hole is intended for fuel lines but it is also supposed to be dead centre vertical and horizontal for the engine centre line.
So if you extended an imaginary line out the back of your engine it should line up in the centre of the hole.

So the hole is a reference point. The other reference point is place your cowl as instructed aligning or centering it. The centre of the intake on the cowl face, where the engine prop mount (what ever engine that may be) willo eventually be; makes up your engine thrust line. This is easier with the Edge since it has a nose ring where as the 260 is entirely open.

So this is some what ball parkish eye ball building but its worked thus far. By using the hole and intake as a reference, the engine will be angled with the needed right thrust. From the centre of the hole to this imaginary point where the prop mount will be determines your engine mount or standoffs etc.

If you put the fuse on its nose on the ground you'll notice the engine box has this right thrust built into it. This properly lines up your engine and your prop to a right angle.

Just keep in mind if you line up your cowl properly and centre your spinner to the face of the cowl with a line through the crank shaft to the hole on the fire wall... you should be fine.

Its just a little more challenging with some engines, standoffs etc. The Gas guys on this thread should be able to give you better tips for that engine.

MaxThrottle

That's cool.

Go to the Baby Edge Build thread and I think its YukonBlue has a video of a gas turning aI think a 18X6. Sailing mentions it appeared heavy (Yakon said it was ballpark 12 lbs) in the way that it flies. For some that's what they are used to others want more. Sailing some how got it down to 10.2 lbs with a gas setup so its acheivable to keep the weight down.

Just as long as you're weight conscious you should be able to hover. If you start putting in extras the lbs will take you below 1:1 thrust ratio fairly quick. I have the Saito 125 16X8 on a 11lb Seagul Edge. It hovers but not huge pull out. It would hover better on a 16X4 but would still be slow on the up line.

Thus my original question.

What kind of flying are you looking to get. The Saito 120 is a 2 lb engine with less power than the 125. You should be able to fly this plane but you may want to engine up later.

Deathbunny_SG

My Feedback: (6)

Yukonblue is running a 3w-28 And has a smoke system thats why he came in that heavy. The 3w-28 is a very nice engine and it makes lots of power as you can see in the vid but its also heavier then the brillelli or evo. 12lbs really isnt that heavy for a plane with a wing this size esp if your not tyring to 3d. I know I have been trying to set mine up to be good at 3d and want to learn 3d irl (im pretty good at it on the sim) but the reality is im prolly a year or more from really trying to 3d with something of this size and cost.

I am also in the brillelli wait line and what a painful line it is but its not like theres lots of good options in the 26cc size range. [:@]

No point in going to 30% fuel now its about to stop being made (at least by morgan fuel) due to the nitro shortage. People are about to get slaped with a big price hike on glow fuel I bet that wait line at brillelli is about to get even longer... Yay for the olympics [:@]

MaxThrottle

Dude thanks for the crap news. [:-]

I wanted to go to gas but I already had the 160. Now I'm gonna have to calculate how long before Nitro starts costing more than its replacement.

You are right about 12 lbs not being to much for this plane. You could even go more but to bgfireman's question will a 120 do well with 10lbs weight.

Going from a 18X6 to a 15X8 or 16X6 is a big difference. Another concern is you don't want to achieve hover at near full throttle. That leaves you with little control. But the 120 will be close enough that you'd want to try it to see if it will hold. That's why I said try it and pony up later. It also depends on the flying he wants to do.

Not all 3D is just hanging off the prop. He'd still be able to do plenty.

apriliamille

My Feedback: (1)

the cost comparison is what got me to take the turn to gas. if i go to my LHS (which isnt local) im out 30 bucks in vehicle fuel costs then the cost of the nitro bottles. or the shipping of glow fuel plus the hazardous fee tag.

sailing1

My Feedback: (134)

Another plus with the gas engines is that they really sip the fuel as compaired to glow engine. My 25% WH Edge has a Evo 26 GT on it turning an 18-6 prop. I had it out the past weekend and flew 10 times on almost now gas it seemed. On the final flight I flew 10 minutes until my timer went off and then a couple more minutes of engine run to land and taxi to the pits. When I pulled the canopy and checked I had used about 40% or a 14 oz tank. That is like 6 oz as compared to maybe 20 oz of glow fuel for an 160 size slimer (I know I have one). I suspect he other small gassers would be equally as fuel efficient.

MaxThrottle

I know..I know... I kinda had to include the cost of the 160 in my equation. I had it for 5 years (when Nitro was a more respectable price) sitting around new $210. I still almost considered Evo but the combined cost of the 160 and Nitro vs New Gas $400 and Petrol, cents ...well it would taken I think 7-8 yrs when I calculated before gas would have caught up and I'd still be sitting on the 160. I guess i could have sold it but who's going to buy it now that Nitro isn't being produced in China for who knows how long.

Now I realized why Death... said yeah olympics.... Oh yeah [&:]

Well I never had a rocket 3D plane and as Tom said the 160 is huge power. I'll have to enjoy it while it lasts.

Having said that something that has me concerned and happy is the 160 actually isn't using a lot of Nitro. I said before I can go back to a 18oz ... I can actually go back to 16 and still get more than 15 min. Near dry mind you but its on the 24 oz being fuel conservative in the air with most stuff at 1/3 throttle I was surprised to have flow 1 full hour. Naturally I landed and idle while check if I was running out but that got me to think I might be running a tad lean. But got others to check and it looks like its running like it should so ...

Either I can live with it for now or I blow it up and then switch to gas . And you guys did all the leg work so it's be an easy switch.

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

This thread hasn't had any attenion for some time so I though I'd wake it back up. I'm heading out in the morning to put the maiden flight on my Baby Extra 260. The weather forcast calls for a picture perfect day. I finally got all my problems resolved, servos swapped out, and back from vacation. Just a recap of what I'm running.

OS 120AX
Hitec 5645MG Digital servos all around
APC 17X6 prop
CF landing gear
customized Sig tail wheel assy
Airtronics RDS8000 2.4 radio

Han2007

Zippi, I'm running an almost identicle setup (I'm using a Spektrum Tx/Rx setup) and I can guarantee that you're going to love this plane!

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

You are correct Han2007, I love this plane. The first flight ended up in the bean field do to a dead stick in the wrong area. No problem as it just floated in and sat on top of the beans. After I got the engine tweaked out I put 4 more flights on it. This thing is a real floater. You have to be easy on the elevator once you get close to the ground or it will still want to keep flying. Didn't see any bad habbits at high speed or low speed. Here are some pic's of a pretty day at the field and some of the planes of my buddies.

MaxThrottle

The 260 IMHO is the best looking out of the bung And Nice club!

Didn't realize you were having engine issues. Glad to hear you're getting the kinks out.

I second your opinion on the flying characteristics of the BabyWH260. Even with being a larger plane, it give confidence to 3Dbuzz around low and slow.

If it were just slightly wider in the nose (closer to scale rather than square), I'd definitly have gone with a side mounted gas without the need to put holes in the cowl.

how are you finding the 120AX on the 17X6?

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

MaxThrottle,

The OS 120AX will give the plane unlimited vertical once I can lean it out and get the max power out of it. The engine is still new so I'm running it pretty rich. I haven't tached this engine but the OS 120AX on my AW YAK 54 is turning 9300 rpm on the APC 17X6 prop. Very nice flying plane and I haven't had a chance to ring it out yet.

apriliamille

My Feedback: (1)

hi zippi,

got my box with plane parts, servos are on the way this week, waiting on the engine then i can be proud to display pics of my assembly and talk about flying with it. untill then i just sit and wait while i come up with random questions.
guess it aint so bad to sit back for a bit. it hit 112 farenheit here today. although im getting a little buyers remorse and have been pondering 'should have i gotten the honda sukhoi with the whole kit and kaboodle at one shot from tom'

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

I guess that all depends on if you really wanted this size plane or you wanted a 50cc size. I think you'll like this plane. I've had three other planes (Seagull Laser 200, GSP Giles 202, Aeroworks .90-1.20 YAk 54) about this same size and they fly great compared to the smaller planes. I prefer this size plane for the ease of transportation. Fits in the back of my shortbed Ford Edge pickup with a top cover on just fine.

apriliamille

My Feedback: (1)

jeep wrangler for the loss im kind of handcuffed into the smaller sizes till i figure out a better transportation method. its gonna be awesome for sure. cant wait to fly it....

mk2491

Considering buying a lightly used baby extra with a saito 125 in it. Do you know of anyone that has tried this combination? If so what were the results. Just curious for any info I can obtain so I can make my decision.

Zippi

My Feedback: (10)

I remember reading about someone running a Saito 125 in one of these threads and Tom at WH said the Saito 125 would have enough power for this plane.

rctom

From what I was told the Saito 125 went ballistic on that plane.

I just finished building one (not actually me, my friend Johnny Snead did it) a baby Edge with a new small gas engine, a DZY-26S. That plane came in at 9.6 lbs. ready to fly including 2 1100mah A123 battery packs, muffler, ignition, everything.

If we can build it for gas a 9.6 lbs., certainly it will be less for the Saito which weighs about a half pound less than this little gas engine. That Saito 1.25 ought to haul the plane around with excellent authority.

TF