Destructive inspection...
 

When two transmitters are sending signals to the same aircraft and it is PCM, the RX goes into lockout...the throttle went to low idle and the control surfaces stayed where they were when it had a valid signal. Here is the aftermath...45 degrees straight into hard dirt.

My 28% Extra 300LX had a carbon fiber spinner, carbon fiber wing tube, DA-50, carbon fiber stab tube, three Li-Ion batts and Duralite regulators, stock gear and wheel pants...weighed 15.5 pounds without fuel.

1. Construction on the original Extra 300LX was very strong and well built.
2. Glue joints were strong on the parts...wood broke and left the joints where glue was holding parts together.
3. The motor box was destroyed along with the whole front of the aircraft.
4. The wings ripped the sides of the fuselage out but the pins and bolts holding the wing on were in tact.
5. The tail section is very well built. The balsa glued over formers has no foam inside, just air...strong and light.
6. Using Gorilla glue made my hinges indestructable. I tried pulling them free and was completely unsuccessful. I even tried bending the control surfaces over past the bevels and wasn't even able to force the hinges out that way!
7. Over 100 flights and people still commented on how it looked "new."
8. Great plane - very strong and light weight!

If the other TX hadn't been turned on this plane would have been around for a long time to come!

See my full review at http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2773490/tm.htm for more info about my pleasureable experience with my first gasser...

RE: Destructive inspection...
 

Al, sorry to here about your plane it was a beauty..... I want to take the time and thank you for your build review you did a great job! in fact if it wasn't for that review i would probably still be working on it. It is also my first gasser and your review helped me out tremendously. I'm sure tom wont mind selling you that new extra! ... thanks again Bill.....

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I had this happend to me. It is a helpless feeling.
I was lucky that the person responsible offered and has made good on a replacement.

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Yes, the new Extra would be a great replacement, it would allow you to contrast the two planes.

FYI we still have 10% discount for active duty military.

TF

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I haven't seen the new plane on the WH website yet...just some pics and talk in the forums...is there a price out there yet?

Thanks.

Tom, you seem to be working hard...many new planes, and lots of satisfied customers!

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PLEASE tell us the guy that shot you down is making good on it. I really liked that color scheme on your plane.

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Apparently the other guy who wasn't flying actually had the channel pin.
Read that in a few places.

LIVE and LEARN!

[:@]

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When you're flying at a field and NO ONE ELSE IS THERE, still grab your pin, you never know who might show up while you're flying! What luck...

Nope, the other guy claims innocence...drive up, grab your pin without saying a word, turn on and shoot down. Don't let it be you...[:o]

Edit: spelling

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Did you guys work anything out,,, and I am still not really understanding what happened, did you not grab your pin, and he drove up and grabbed that channel, or something,,,

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Our club decided to post all the club members and the channels there radios are on. We found this to be a good plan but still nothing will stop this kind of thing other than common sence. If I see anyone I dont ussually fly with I make sure I ask them what channel they are on. More often than not im the first to arive and the last to leave the field Taking my pin isnt allways the first thing I do so I simpathize with you.

our list http://www.rivervalleyflyers.com/list.html

having this list posted on our frequincy board also helps Keeping it upto date is priceless

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I was reading on another forum where Flyin Tiger was first up to fly, but he didn't grab his frequency pin because he was the only person at the field flying.
The other guy drove up and grabbed the pin and turned on his radio. I don't think it was the other guys fault. He did use the board. It's a tough lesson to learn but you have to use the frequency board ALL the time if it is expected to work all the time.
Shaun

RE: Destructive inspection...
 

At one of the paces I fly at it's pretty common for someone to be flying without a pin if they ae the first one or three people there. We all know each other and show the courtesy to ask what channel the guy flying is on before we turn anything on. Then again, that same courtesy is generally extended to all the member that arrive as the day progresses so we usually don't even need to bring the pin board out unless we have more than 6 or more people flying that day.

I have to side with Flyin Tiger here. It's all about courtesy and consideration. If you are too lazy or in too much of a hurry to ask a simple but extremely important question then life must only be about you.

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Lets review: Flying field, radio frequencies, people on radio fequencies = disaster! Yes common courtesy is extended at out field also and works well. But!!! We built a frequency board for a purpose. To control a disaster that can at any time happen: A new guy to the club is explained the rules to the club. One day he comes out to fly but nobody has put up their pin because they all I know each other. Well he doesnt. Hes new. But he asks everyone what channel they are on anyways. At first I want to say "Im on the board" But in embarrasement I cant say that and reluctantly explain to the new new guy we are a bunch of dummies not following the club rules. The reason I tell this story is becasue it happened one day at our field. ( no names mentioned [&:] ) what else really made me think that day? I have a $2000.00 plane and this guy happened to be on my channel. WHoa!!!!! Me a big dummy. Thank God the new guy followed the rules....;)

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I do agree with this statement. We all (ok, well....most extend this to each other) to each other. BUT...... The frequency board is there for a reason. We are not dealing with $10 planes here. If it is used every time, these accidents would never happen. It should never be a possibility of this happening. I'm not sure, but is there a rule in ama about the usage of a board for a AMA sanctioned field?
Shaun

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accidents still happen a guy i fly with has planes here and in another state he usses 51 here and 45 in another state. he also usses a synthisized radio. { Ithink they call them dial a crasher's for a reason } he didnt shoot me down but he made good on the %33 he did. We all hate to see this happen but it does some day if we all fly long and often enough god forbid it will happen to us Ive lost 2 over the years one guy said sorry one gave me a new radio for my troubles. Iff I do it im buying the guy a new plane Hands down For the life of me I cant see why you wouldnt!

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I really sympathize with Flying Tiger. It's really painful when you lose your pride and joy, especially if you have nothing else ready to fly. But I have to go along with Redneck Shaun here. If you have a frequency board and people flying, then by all means, you should have your pin or card displayed so there is no mistake what frequecies are being used at the time. The kind of thing that scares me is what happened at our flying field last weekend. It was late afternoon and three of us were there. One was flying. I was busy filming his flight. I overheard the third guy talking to somebody that had pulled up in his vehicle. I heard him ask the guy something about frequencies, but didn't pay much attention, figuring he had it handled. Later, the guy told me that the stranger had pulled up about 50 feet away. He had pulled out a small electric full-bodied foamy, and immediately turned the radio on. Fortunately, the guy didn't shoot anybody down. When asked what frequency he was on he responded, "Frequency, what's a frequency"? Turned out that he had flown a few times, a couple years ago, with a guy way out in the country. They had never discussed frequency, so this guy had no idea of frequency protocol, even though it was clearly explained in the manual for the new foamy he had. We explained it to him, so I'm hoping that the next time he shows up there, or at another flying field, he will ask around before he starts turning on his radio. The thing that scares me is that this kind of thing can happen anywhere, regardless of the frequency board, how strictly it is adhered to, or how prominently it is displayed. If this kind of thing happens, and the guy shoots down a $5,000 plane, do you think he is going to pay for the plane? I don't think so. This guy has spent $160 at a department store, buying a toy for his son, and he looked until he found what he figured is a suitable place to try it out. Not very likely is he going to feel sufficient responsibility to pay for a $5,000 plane. The owner is just out, regardless of how upset he gets or how much the other fliers side with him. After a short discussion, we decided that every time a stanger pulls up, we need to immediately approach him to see what his intentions are. We intend to be friendly, of course, but we intend to do all we can do to prevent a repeat of what happened last weekend. No harm was done, but the potential was certainly there.

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I'm sorry to say I see a very troubling trend here. There are those that will ask, regardless of pin location and possession out of common courtesy in the attempt to prevent a loss. Then there are those that agree that courtesy is a good thing and they extend it all the time but if you don't have the pin while you are flying, the comment will be something like; "too bad, sorry 'bout your plane, but you didn't have the pin when I got here." How hard is it to ask "hey, what channel you on?"

I fly at quite a few different fields. Perhaps I'm too "old school" but at each and every one of them I look around and talk to the people there before I turn anything on or fly. That includes prior to obtaining a pin. There was a time when I flew at a field that had hundreds of members (Miles Square Park) before the advent of a pin system. All we did was line the transmitters up. If you were the first one there someone coming in next would ask what frequency you were on and wait if necessary. Shoot downs were not very common, and when there was either money changed hands or there was an a--whuppin. Running away meant never flying there again.

Seems to me that some of the old ways should be resurrected. I think I'll just fly with all the courteous folk and leave the legal eagles for another life. It appears that I was quite correct in the earlier post where I mentioned that far too many people are under the impression that "it's all about me, and so what about anyone else".

RE: Destructive inspection...
 

anted to add my 0.03(inflation). Rules are Rules. You didn't use your pin. Somebody shot you down. The fault is not with the second pilot he followed the rules. He looked at the freq board saw his frequency was clear and powered on. I never fly without putting my pin up. Transmitters used to have flags as well but I havn't dseen them used in years.

By flying without pulling your pin you took a rish. Yes the second pilot should have had common since enough to ask your frequency, but not everbody has common since. You have a right to be mad but be mad at yourself. The freq board is there for a reason.

If you were speeding in a school zone and hit a kid, would it be the kids fault for crossing the street?

Look on the bright side you have an excuse to get the new improved 28% extra. I have seen one and they look awsome.

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Hi, I just wanted to add that even frequency boards aren't fool proof because fools are very clever (I'm one of them).

When I was new to the sport I started with gliders and my Dad had one too. At a meet I went to the board to get my peg and my Fathers which was fine, but the mistake I made is I handed him my peg instead of his. When he finished flying he put "his" peg back on the board and I carried on flying.

Then along comes third person and presto, two people on the same frequency, both believing we had the peg. I was in the wrong. No harm done but man I was embarrased. Have never done it since.

The two things I learnt from this:

1. Always get your own peg and let other people get their own peg
2. Don't trust anyone.

RE: Destructive inspection...
 

Silversurfer,

I too long for the good old days when people were much more caring and courteous, in all walks of life. But the fact remains that there were shootdowns occasionally when I first started flying in 1979. Courtesy is definitely a wonderful thing, but it doesn't absolve anyone from blame for not adhering to the rules. If you have a frequency board, use it. And watch the other guys like a hawk. You can be nice and careful at the same time.

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(sigh)I'm afraid you're right. I think I'll just go out back and fly a foamy for awhile[8D]

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1. No where in the 2006 AMA Safety Code does it say that you have to use a frequency board. (You would be stupid not to if it is available, I agree. Now I will use it even when I am there alone.)

2. We do not have a "club" or written club rules to follow. "Common Courtesy" is the only rule. This field has been let go for quite a while physically. The charter hasn't even been kept up on for atleast a few years now. I think the AMA rules posted on the message board are from 1995.

3. This is what the frequency board looked like. Pins were missing...broken...and some were covered in bird poop. The nice slots in the plexiglass look good for AMA cards, huh? That was rarely used...mostly by us. The method that was used was to take the pin off the board and replace it with another plain brown clothespin with the owner's name hand written on it. From 10' away you can't tell the difference on some channels. Today, I brought the boards home, cleaned the boards, reglued some broken plexiglass, built an "A-frame" to keep the bird poop deflected, and I painted 50 new pins bright orange with numbers clear-coated on the pins themselves so they can't break off.

As soon as the paint is dry and I finish re-assemblying, I'll post pictures of the improved frequency board.

Albert.

Edit: pictures added

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Now thats taking the bull by the horns.........sorry for your loss.

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I think you are definatly doing the correct thing!

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We have a board with clothespins the numbers are painted on a small square glued to the pin not a lot bigger than a postage stamp there are also numbers painted on the board and a cup hook with a small metal clip for your AMA Card so you know who has the pin There is a dowel mounted just over the row of cup hooks that hold the clothspins I dont have a clear picture of this but i think the ones I have will help.