Cap - Grrrrr
 

Well I have wanted a Cap for awhile and when I saw the 85" Cap I thought this would be great. I bought a white one for X-mas and did my first custom covering job with good results.

So far I have about 10-12 flights on it and have more right thrust in it then you would think neccessary ( to the point where people actually comment on it) and it's still not enough. I have a ton of up thrust which finally seems to be about right. I have also played with the CG all over the place and right now it's slightly nose heavy because i am trying to correct the need to fly with 1/8" of down elevater.

I could have sworn someone said somewhere the incidence on this plane should be 0-0 ? I am there right now for sure but on a dive it pulls to it's canopy, slightly but noticeable.

About the only thing this plane does nice is harrier and it's driving me up the wall. Any type of precision, rolling circles, 4 point rolls etc. is out the window because of the down trim required to fly level. Sure I can mix it out but it's going to take a lot and never quite be right for different manovers.

I am looking for the Cap owners to give me some input here. I have had a WH Edge and the Yak, as well as flown the Extra and they were great but this Cap is the worst plane I have had so far and my frustration is through the roof. I spent a lot of time / money convering and painting it and I love the way it looks, but I leave the field wishing I had bought something else.


Please help with suggestions that made your Cap fly right. Did anyone else have the problem with down El. needed to fly level?


*disclaimer.. this is not a thread to knock WH.. like I said I have owned 2 other products and they were great.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Give me/us some info on how it's set up.

My first reaction is that you are way off. The Cap needs a little trimming, but there's no need for added right thrust normally. I am flying a mid-KAP all teh time, I have no added right thrust and only a touch of up thrust. Yours may need a bit more up thrust but not a lot.

I do know that some people start adjusting things and go the wrong way or go way too far.

Have you ever foloowed a trimming sequence step by step?

TF

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

OK I have taken pics to show you... unfortunately they are not the clearest but you get the idea.

Currently I am just a tad over 3.75" from leading edge of CG.

YOu can see in the pics the amount of EL needed to fly level.

I have just under 1/4" of right thrust in it and about 1/8" up. It still requires rudder correction on uplines. When flying at half throttle if I cut the throttle it goes forward and slowly fades off. It might actually not fade off as quick as it should.. with the amount of down you would think it would drop a lot quicker. when I get on the throttle it moves straight ahead not up or down.

Downlines it pulls to the canopy and that was actually into the wind so it's pulling pretty good.


I have started down the trimming sheet however it's hard to do consideirng how much down I am starting with... I am kind of focused on trying to get taken care of before I go any further. I have had the CG from 3.5" - 4.25" trying to see if that would fix it.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Some of the description is contradictory in the effects. Nose heavy should indictate a need for up trim. Is it possible that it may be necessary to start back at the beginning of the process and zero everything out again?

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Please contact me off-line. [email protected] or 817-430-0107.

We need to discuss this.

TF

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

ok.. thanks for the phone conversation... gonna try some things and keep you posted.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

How about keeping us posted too. I have a Cap and the info will be useful.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Will do when the wind goes away... for now I am moving teh CG backwards again and going to redo the thrust.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

YOU'RE SPOT ON. that is the cap. mine flies with 1/8 down ele, pulls to the canopy in a dive... i added crap loads of R thrust and up thrust and thats the machine. its not going to be a precision machine.... compared to some airplanes at least. I've done everything I can, thats it and thats the best its going to fly. My best advice is don't be picky with the precision and you'll have fun, and when you get 3D wild with it, it will keep up! its a 3D pumper so just bust it out and have fun. a couple extra mixes will help and burn some fuel and get to know it. I've put 5 gallons through mine and i've come to love it.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

hrmm.. ya I knew I had read some posts about needing a fair amount of thrust... I actually believe one of your videos got me into looking one of these Caps. Didn't you have the "smoking" video or something?

Well the 1/8" down has been an issue for sure.. I have had that issue since day one regardless of CG and I actually only added 1 small washer of right / up thrust to start.

I know it 3Ds well.. seen several harriering videos. Some one at my field flew it for 5 mins and brought it down 10' of the deck harriering it around and really liked the way it did that. I can do nice rolling harriers with it as well and walls are great.

The biggest thing for me is I wasn't looking for a strickly 3D machine.. I wanted the best of both worlds.. the Edge is more rounded than this CAP in my opinion if you compare both the WH Edge and Cap. Although go to Carden I think the Cap flies pretty good at everything. I flew a H9 33% a hand full of times and it did awesome rolling circles for me.

I will get some more tweakin and time in on her and go from there

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

agreed. The carden edge is a-ma-zing. thats my next plane some fine day. for now i can still learn a lot from this airplane, but i know how you feel.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Well unfortunately I only got one flight in today since I lost my muffler. I did get a full flight in though.. I wasn't even aware the muffler fell off till I couldn't get it to idle down and sounded a bit odd :)

I moved the CG back before the flight after talking to Tom last week on the phone. Now it flies with just a touch of El inverted. The need for down el. still hasn't changed and at his point I really don't think it will change. I did work on my mixes a bit and it improved the KN obviously.. but the tranisition into the roll is still a bit sloppy since there is so much down EL. The thing is my mixes are basically making the el. neutral for KE which if I didn't have all the down needed to level flight would prob mean there would be very little needed to mix for KE normally.

I didn't really spend too much time looking at how it flew.. I just wanted to get a first flight out of the way. With no muffler it was grounded the rest of the day so hopefully next weekend I will get some more time on it.


I did however get some nice pics :D I forgot to show the bottom though...

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

hey nice looking cap. really like the colors... even better than mine i think. I know exactly what you're talking about when rolling... my gripe is rolling on the vertical line particularly.... I guess I appreciate airplanes that are mix free out of the box more so now... but i would and still will be buying wildhares in the future... i think i want to try the 33% edge next.

I got one flight in today as well in 25 mph winds... did i mention i love heavy airplanes??? not even a big deal. This thing will inverted harrier just as well or better as verted.... tho i never had the guts till recentley... need to get some video of the ke spins too. keep us posted

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

If changes in C/G do not remove the need for elevator trim, then there may be a need for a change in the incidence of the horizontal stabs. There have been few planes that I have seen that didn't require some mixing in one form or another to eliminate one bad habit or another. My personal experience is that a 232 is one that usually requires more than others until they become really large. 35% and up things seem to always go better with a straight 232.

The 232 is a plane that for some reason or another has an empennage that is extremely effective and very sensitive to small control inputs and variations in incidence. They take a lot of time and effort to get them where you want them but when set up well they perform great. Kind of like a pattern plane where the engine and main wing incidences are set to zero and the horizontal stabs have to be adjusted until that sweet spot is reached.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

erik... Thanks.. the bottom is yellow leading edge with black strips on wings and el. I was pretty happy with how it came out. This is the first plane I have ordered white and redid. I pretty much have my heart set on the 260 :D I actually wanted one of those but didn't have the extra money. I got to fly my friend's Hanger 9 33% Cap and although he doesn't spend any time trimming or setting up a plane properly I was amazed at how smooth I could do rolling circles. That was what made me look at a Cap for a change.

SS I def. think you are right.. I was considering playing with the incidence on the wings since it would be a bit easier to change... would that have the same effect?

I asked Tom and he said it sholuld be 0-0 which is exactly what I am at. I have checked it 3 times just to make sure.


ps. just so some of those reading this thread dont get the wrong idea here... I dont expect to have a mix free plane... that rarely happens. The problm here is the amount of down required to fly level and the overal amount of thrust correction needed.

Also as stated in the beginning.. this is not my first WH plane.. it's actually my 3rd and I will by more. The Edge and Yak flew great :)

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Welp.. I have officially decided this plane is just not meant for precision flying at all... it requires a lot of mixes to get it to fly well outside of 3D. I am tempted to play with the incidnce as meantion by Silversurfer... however with my luck I will get it even worse :D

Everyone was correct.. this plane does harrier and rolling harrier well though... hangs pretty nicely and does nice walls as well.

My only beef really is that I miss being able to do precision stuff..

However I did get some good pics from yesterday...

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

good conclusion... and excellent pics... i can't say i've gotten as low as you have [>:] but gee the wind always sucks here. excuses right? :D

enjoy the cap. mess with the incidences when you get bored and report back

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Thanks... I also did my first harrier landing on Sat....

Ya low like that keeps you awake thats for sure... I am just about ending my 2nd season and I am pushing hard to be doing rolling harriers Kyle W style Next year will be 35 or 40%er time and I want it low on the deck like that :D

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

It's a shame you arent' happy with how it flies, because you did an awesome job on the scheme. That thing is beautiful.

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

A couple of times in this thread you guys mention a "trim sheet". Assuming you mean a document that walks you through a defined trimming procedure, where can I find it ?! Or, another list of cause-effect trim stuff.

Thanks!

Forrest

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Here are a couple
http://www.mini-iac.com/EditModule.a...View&ItemId=27

http://www.nsrca.org/trimA.htm

RE: Cap - Grrrrr
 

Thanks ncrego I was def. pleased with the way it turned out. I will use the colors again on a future plane :D

It flies well if you are a 3D guy... obviously hovers well as you can see in the pics above :) although you need to ride the el. because of the down required to fly level. This weekend coming up is gonna be nice so I hope to get another 10 flights on her and iron out the rest of my mixes.. maybe get a bit of video. I do have some video that was taken from teh same flight as the pics above but it's so shakey it sucks :(