RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Ok gentlemen, I am going to jump in here andclear this up. Yes, a member can start a thread here in this forum about any subject that pertains the general topic of this forum, which is the AMA. However, that doesn't mean that member owns that thread and can decide what is posted and what isn't posted here. The same thing goes for other members that are posting in that thread. I'm not trying to reduce anybody's value here because RCUvalues EVERYmember that we have, but unfortunately in things such as this we need to set out a clear policy on an issue such as this.This is by no means any indication that we don't want the OPto post here, as it is just the opposite.

Watching the recent outburst of posts with everybody screaming about being off topic reminds me of when Iwas a kid and we played Army (or cops and robbers or whatever everybody else played) where we ran around shooting each other with pretend guns. Then we'd start yelling "I shot you, you're dead!" to which of course the answer was "No you didn't. you missed me!". "Did to", "Did not". These kind of posts about what is on topic and what isn't sounds exactly the same to me as those playground games I used to play. Come on guys, it's time to grow up a bit here and participate in this forum on a bit more mature manner.

For those that this does not apply to Iapologize for having to make such a post in the open. And for those that this does apply to, all Ican say as any further posts along these lines will be removed.

Ken

richie5150

WELL PUT lopflyers !!! (POST #42) YOU HIT THE NAIL RIGHT ON THE HEAD !!! AS FOR NEEDING GROWTH,... THERE IS STRENGTH IN NUMBERS (MEMBERS). SHOULDN'T MORE MEMBERS = LOWER MEMBERSHIP COSTS ???

tinner1

RCKen,

Thank You very much! I will lick my wounds as should everyone else who is guilty......

I like the statement that the AMA has to have a voice as pointed out about the CDC. Can anyone post the name of a any "support" organization (like the AMA, NRA PBA) that stopped existing, but the activity that organization supported continued to flurish? IE, If the PBA stopped existing there would still be bowling allies.

KidEpoxy

The strength you refer to has been typified as having 'zero voice' in recent FAA activities.
Keep in mind that the 'strength in numbers' & 'they lobby for us' rally crys
have been used since the club had fewer than 100k members,
and that we actually DO NOT LOBBY, nor do we seem to have any strength ('zero voice')
as we grew from 100k to 150k



Lower costs?
As the membership grew
the dues grew.
Simple history, more folks does not make for lower cost.
It ~could~ if Muncie wanted it to, but we havent seen that yet as we grew from 50k to 170k members

The_Mad_Hatter_632

well kid that is normal once the price goes up they see that increase in "profit" the price stays up, even though it could benefit the product in increased sales if the price was lowered.
it sometimes comes (lowered prices) but that is normally when the business or organization is in survival mode due to pricing them self almost out of business .

tinner1

Couldn't the increase in dues, along with the increase membership, be attributed to increased demands for service from the increased membership? On all the posts I read on these AMA forums there always some who want more services, ie want to see something for "their" dues. I put their in quotes referring to those that want their own particular interest addressed along with whatever else is going on. As a membership expands in any organization, so do the interests of its members, and I would think to keep up with those demands, yes dues would rise and not fall. Just a question for thought.......

Luchnia

My Feedback: (21)

Again, I am curious. Thinking of "dues" and exactly what that means. For the AMA our dues is the membership fee. So membership entitles us, the members, to whatever it is that the org has granted the fee to cover. Do you think it is wrong us to expect something for our dues and how do we determine exactly what that "something" is?

I do think there is a reasonable expectation to receive something for my fee. Is insurance adequate to cover this or should we expect other things? If I join a golf club then I am entitled to all the perks that is included with my membership level. That could be the pool, use of club facilities, lunches, courses, special entertainment, etc.

I know most AMA chartered clubs expect you to pay the club dues and help with doing everything. In a way I understand, but then it is frustrating some because you can feel slighted at times. Say you wind up mowing the field more than anyone else. When does it become too much and you wind up paying way more than you really should when other members sit back and use you? I realize this is entirely on the local level, but larger orgs run into this type of thing as well.

The membership does have perks and benefits and that is why we join. In my case, I paid 58$ because all the clubs in my area require that. So the perk I get is to mow grass and fly my planes. Somehow, I have never really felt like mowing was a true "perk"

dbcisco

What services does the member or club get besides insurance that can not be had without the AMA.
That was the major failing of PPP.
Is the AMA trying to "sell refrigerators to Eskimos" ?

tinner1

My intent was to say for example (hypothetically), with "X" number of members we only needed 1 secretary to keep records and provide whatever services to members. Now that we have "2 times X" number of members, some of which now fly something that is "new" to the organization, lets just say "widgets", we have the "old" financial obligations, plus twice as many members for that one secretary to process, so we hire help for her. (increased labor expense) At the same time the "widgets" guys have new and different interests and want something for their money, ie specifically for "widgets". I agree with your statement every member is entitled to services, but the new demands "widgets" have placed on the organization have increased the organizations financial demands, and even though there was an increase in "membership" there was a greater increase in demands put on the organization financially.

To use your example of joining a golf "club", YES you are entitled to certain benefits of membership. However is it reasonable to expect the same services/access to courses if the membership doubled? For example twice as many people are now playing golf on that clubs course, and to allow more members to play, as often as you used to before the membership increase, the club builds another course. Do you think they would lower the dues? And those new members want to play say earlier in the day, so the club extends their hours to give the new members something for their dues. = another increased financial load. Does that make more sense as to what I was asking?


PS Edit, I have changed the word "jet" to "widgets" so that people who can't understand what "hypothetical" means won't be confused.....

dbcisco

"the new demands jets have placed on the organization have increased the organizations financial demands"
Can you be more specific? Not sure why jets are any different or have special needs from the AMA.

tinner1

READ the post correctly.....

I SAID hypothetically......NOT IN REALITY

You're so quick to "jump on" a post you didn't really read.........

The_Mad_Hatter_632

if jets are a problem then it would make more sense for the AMA to have a tag a long type due for those members and then they can foot the added cost instead of punishing everyone .

the more members that the organization has the cheaper the insurance becomes and when you put all of that togeather it should come to savings, like i said i'm not in the AMA i'd love to look at those books they have cause it does sound like there is a profit being made somewhere and before anyone says it i'm not saying it's a profit there hiding a lot of smart organizations will put those numbers right in your face and just give it a different name that does not mean they are hiding it from the IRS ..................

dbcisco

Hypothetically, what needs could jets need from the AMA that other aircraft don't?

The_Mad_Hatter_632

well cisco here's just my thought but jets due to there speed could be considered a higher risk to a insurance company , so who should pay the extra cost, it should not be laid across for everyone to pay not everyone wants to fly a RC jet that goes over 100mph.
you can see that alone would make a insurance carrier a little jumpy ............

but this is off topic and on another thread so i'll leave the subject alone ..............

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Slip and fall type injuries are the most common payouts and represent the biggest risk so throw that theory out.

Tinner1 was just using jets as an example. He could have just as well said peanut planes. I bet he wishes he had by now.

dbcisco

The problem with a hypothesis is that it is hypothetical.

KidEpoxy

Cisco,
I dont think he was focusing on the exact group 'jets' as needing something more,
but that there could be some group 'widgets' having needs that require a larger org



Tinner
sure
Its not to focus on what compound of things caused the rates to go up,
but that the rates did go up even though the membership grew... 'growth' didnt stop them from going up.
I think we are all on the same page for this one.

We may be at 140k now, and try to speculate what our needs might be if we had 170k.
Or, we can look back at what we DID do the last time we grew to 170k.
We are not trying to reach 170k from our 140k, we are trying to RETURN to 170k.

But lest we forget,
wasnt that 170k highwater mark in the age before ubiquotus hotsynced smartphones
(lets face it, todays phones are far more powerful than 1985's desktop computers)
such that the administrative tasks are far more automated these days... more capacity same staff
(they better be, or we got our HQ in the stone age for some reason)
Ahah!
yes, and this 'something new' is the crux of your thread, asking
What reasons do we need to grow: What things 'need' growth,?

I still hold:
Tell me what y'all think 'needs' growth to do,
and I will likely tell you we can do that now if we want.

PPP was one of those 'something new'
and we did that while shrinking, we didnt need growth to try it.

K-Bob

My Feedback: (1)

Hypothetically, that is correct.

dbcisco

Well, the insurance is currently only $7 per member. That is a small portion of the $58 dues even if it doubled.

tinner1

hy·po·thet·i·cal
adj \ˌhī-pə-ˈthe-ti-kəl\
Definition of HYPOTHETICAL
: being or involving a hypothesis : conjectural <hypothetical arguments>
— hypothetical noun
— hy·po·thet·i·cal·ly\-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
Examples of HYPOTHETICAL

1. She described a hypothetical case to clarify her point.
2. <we talked about what we would do in various hypothetical emergencies>

With the above definition, specifically the bold above in mind, I have changed the word jets in my previous post so no one will be confused as to think I was refferring to the actual real life jets that are a part of the real life AMA membership activities....BUT rather using a NON EXISTENT NON REAL group to make a statement.

I agree the second line above should be true IF and only IF the AMA was about insurance ONLY but it isn't. Please re-read the second part of my post #115 where I tried to clarify my statement using Luchnia post #113's "golf" example. I am suggesting equal services (members golfing) for equal members may not be possible, ie had to build more golf courses to serve more golfing members.

Now the point about getting back to 170K from 120K is a different point, and a good one to question!

dbcisco

Seems you were taking your own post way off-topic with long explanations and definitions of "hypothetical".

tinner1

Does the saying "Pot calling the kettle black" ring with you?

To quote you, "I'm answering a posters question"........And besides YOU were first to TELL me I couldn't tell anyone what to post, so if you care to notice, I no longer try.

I am not taking my post "off topic" as you would like to imply. I had to define "hypothetical" to you and a few others didn't understand the use in a post I made that was on topic, and edit the word "jet" out so it would be even more clear to understand by some. I don't expect YOU to see that because you are the pro on knowing all that was meant in all posts.......

dbcisco,

YOUR posts are so bad anymore, and I am so tired of your "know it all attitude" and correcting everyones posts, I am putting you on my "blocked" list.....You are not worth wasting my time anymore....BYE BYE!!

dbcisco

Is it your a priori assumption that the cost of any,all or some services provided by the AMA are directly, indirectly or exponentially proportional to the number of open members?

CRX Turbines

Tommygun

My Feedback: (2)

For all the talk about parkflyers, I swear I'm the only one I know who even flies them. You internet forum people are the only other people who share my passion for flying RC planes. I live next to a ball field in which I fly (hence I stopped flying my nitro birds an no longer frequent the AMA field 25 minutes away.) I've lived here for over 5 years, and ONCE, I've seen a person fly an old Hobby Lobby brushed, Nicad powered bird over there for like 5 minutes. Talked to him, bs'd for a bit, but he never came back. Never seen a parkflyer at any other suitable fields nearby either. People watch me fly, and occasionally ask where to buy an RC plane. I even carry business cards for the LHS, nobody has ever shown up with a new plane. Even the neighbor's grandson I was teaching to fly quit to take up rc cars and softball. And his uncle gave him 2 free planes! The hobby is going a much different direction, and the one you knew 10 years ago is dying; we just have too many other distractions nowadays for it to be any kind of influence on anyone. So that being the case, you're right, the AMA has no need to grow.