No other options?
01-27-2019, 10:36 AM
#1
No other options?
Per February 2019 Model Aviation
F6F Review Article
Only two power options: Electric or Gas/ignition
That's it.
-Really?
What about 2- or 4-stroke glow options?
Not even acknowledged or considered a "Minus" (-) in the article for not including this power alternative.
In particular- thinking a .90 2- or 1.20 4-stroke* would've worked here too.
Not feelin' the love...
Why?
*(your favorite descriptive here: ["glow", "wet", "nitro", "methanol", "fuel", "alcohol", "motion lotion"] -powered or let's not forget "slimer")
F6F Review Article
Only two power options: Electric or Gas/ignition
That's it.
-Really?
What about 2- or 4-stroke glow options?
Not even acknowledged or considered a "Minus" (-) in the article for not including this power alternative.
In particular- thinking a .90 2- or 1.20 4-stroke* would've worked here too.
Not feelin' the love...
Why?
*(your favorite descriptive here: ["glow", "wet", "nitro", "methanol", "fuel", "alcohol", "motion lotion"] -powered or let's not forget "slimer")
Last edited by H5606; 01-27-2019 at 10:46 AM.
01-27-2019, 11:17 AM
#3
But hey, at least now you know how I feel...
01-28-2019, 05:41 AM
#4
Banned
While I am sure the "omission" is due to the ignorance of the author of the review. I would have hoped the AMA would have proof read it and questioned it. Failing to simply adds to the continuing joke that is the AMA.
01-28-2019, 12:40 PM
#5
You have to remember, a decade ago, an electric plane, of any type, was an oddity. Today, with all the noise restrictions and people wanting instant gratification, nitro engines are going the way of the steam engine in railroading. Why talk about a plane being nitro powered when the electric drive is much more user friendly and gas engines are much less "labor intensive"?
The boating world is the same way. Almost all of the commercially manufactured boats being sold are either gas or electric. If you want to run nitro, you have to look at Europe to get a competitive engine. I don't know of any nitro motors that are still being made in the US. People just don't want to have to fuss with needle valves or pipe pressure to get an engine to run. A gas engine normally has a pump integrated into the carb to draw fuel so needing to adjust needle valves and pipe pressure are done away with. It's no surprise that the AMA would jump on the easy to operate band wagon since it appears most there don't want to have to deal with anything that requires more than two or three brain cells
The boating world is the same way. Almost all of the commercially manufactured boats being sold are either gas or electric. If you want to run nitro, you have to look at Europe to get a competitive engine. I don't know of any nitro motors that are still being made in the US. People just don't want to have to fuss with needle valves or pipe pressure to get an engine to run. A gas engine normally has a pump integrated into the carb to draw fuel so needing to adjust needle valves and pipe pressure are done away with. It's no surprise that the AMA would jump on the easy to operate band wagon since it appears most there don't want to have to deal with anything that requires more than two or three brain cells
01-29-2019, 08:48 AM
#7
Everything I have is also nitro. I've got an OS 25FP that's going into a plans built Kadet Jr and marine engines from a .20 up to a 27cc gasser. Most of what I have are CMB .67s for the multiple boats I run or have under construction
01-29-2019, 05:05 PM
#8
Electric, gasoline, and glow - I use all three forms of power - no claims here that one is better than the other. They all have their place like rubber, turbine, CO2, diesel, thermal, slope... Why not just mention the glow option in the manual/reviews? There need not be any extensive talk about it - thinking just a simple acknowledgement would go a long way toward promoting this power option.
I'm looking for something more than glow being totally ignored.
Since this kind of airplane appeals to a core base of modelers in a specific-interest-group which are older and most familiar with glow power - then why not include this option?
The conglomerates marketing and selling this airplane even offer glow engines and parts support: those being Saito and O.S. Max. Specifically thinking a .95 AX or a FA-125 could complement this airframe like the electric and gas options. Why not romance and embrace this combination?
I'm looking for something more than glow being totally ignored.
Since this kind of airplane appeals to a core base of modelers in a specific-interest-group which are older and most familiar with glow power - then why not include this option?
The conglomerates marketing and selling this airplane even offer glow engines and parts support: those being Saito and O.S. Max. Specifically thinking a .95 AX or a FA-125 could complement this airframe like the electric and gas options. Why not romance and embrace this combination?
01-30-2019, 04:56 AM
#9
You have to remember, a decade ago, an electric plane, of any type, was an oddity. Today, with all the noise restrictions and people wanting instant gratification, nitro engines are going the way of the steam engine in railroading. Why talk about a plane being nitro powered when the electric drive is much more user friendly and gas engines are much less "labor intensive"?
The boating world is the same way. Almost all of the commercially manufactured boats being sold are either gas or electric. If you want to run nitro, you have to look at Europe to get a competitive engine. I don't know of any nitro motors that are still being made in the US. People just don't want to have to fuss with needle valves or pipe pressure to get an engine to run. A gas engine normally has a pump integrated into the carb to draw fuel so needing to adjust needle valves and pipe pressure are done away with. It's no surprise that the AMA would jump on the easy to operate band wagon since it appears most there don't want to have to deal with anything that requires more than two or three brain cells
The boating world is the same way. Almost all of the commercially manufactured boats being sold are either gas or electric. If you want to run nitro, you have to look at Europe to get a competitive engine. I don't know of any nitro motors that are still being made in the US. People just don't want to have to fuss with needle valves or pipe pressure to get an engine to run. A gas engine normally has a pump integrated into the carb to draw fuel so needing to adjust needle valves and pipe pressure are done away with. It's no surprise that the AMA would jump on the easy to operate band wagon since it appears most there don't want to have to deal with anything that requires more than two or three brain cells
How is a gas engine less labor intensive vs. a glow engine?
01-30-2019, 05:48 AM
#10
Banned
To start with gas is a whole lot cleaner to run. So less time cleaning the plane.
If running gas ignition vs gas glow, gas is far more reliable. Pretty much a set it and forget it. One flip starting every time, no dead sticks and a lower idle.
Gas is far less expensive to run than nitro glow.
If running gas ignition vs gas glow, gas is far more reliable. Pretty much a set it and forget it. One flip starting every time, no dead sticks and a lower idle.
Gas is far less expensive to run than nitro glow.
01-30-2019, 07:24 AM
#11
Appowner kind of covered it in his last post, so I don't need to rehash all of that.
When I compare operating costs of my CMB 67 nitro motors to my CMB 27 gasser, the difference is considerable:
1) 50% nitro fuel costs roughly $35 per gallon, 100 octane gas costs around $5 per gallon, not counting the required 2-stroke oil
2) Glow plugs last, normally at best, three or four runs and cost around $5 each, spark plugs routinely last a whole season and cost less than $10 each
3) My CMB 67s will burn through 16-20 ounces of nitro fuel in a 5 minute heat, the CMB 27 will burn through 10-15 ounces of gas/oil in a 5 minute heat
You have to remember, I'm comparing marine racing engines which run roughly twice as fast as a comparable airplane engine and burn over twice as much fuel doing so. When I compare the specifications on my CMB 67 to an OS 65LA, here's what I get:
OS 65 LA lists out at .662 ci, 2000-16000 rpm, 1.7hp/16000 rpm. It has a bore and stroke of .954 inches and will swing 12X7/8 and 13X6/7/8 sized props
2004 version of the CMB 67 lists out at .669 ci, 2500-28000 rpm, 4.7hp/27500 rpm. It has a bore of .968 inches and a stroke of .909 inches. The larger bore and shorter stroke, IIRC, give the marine engine more torque than the OS aircraft engine even though it's operating in a much higher powerband. My present boat runs a Prather 255 stainless steel 2.4X3.8 prop that is balanced, polished and sharpened
When I compare operating costs of my CMB 67 nitro motors to my CMB 27 gasser, the difference is considerable:
1) 50% nitro fuel costs roughly $35 per gallon, 100 octane gas costs around $5 per gallon, not counting the required 2-stroke oil
2) Glow plugs last, normally at best, three or four runs and cost around $5 each, spark plugs routinely last a whole season and cost less than $10 each
3) My CMB 67s will burn through 16-20 ounces of nitro fuel in a 5 minute heat, the CMB 27 will burn through 10-15 ounces of gas/oil in a 5 minute heat
You have to remember, I'm comparing marine racing engines which run roughly twice as fast as a comparable airplane engine and burn over twice as much fuel doing so. When I compare the specifications on my CMB 67 to an OS 65LA, here's what I get:
OS 65 LA lists out at .662 ci, 2000-16000 rpm, 1.7hp/16000 rpm. It has a bore and stroke of .954 inches and will swing 12X7/8 and 13X6/7/8 sized props
2004 version of the CMB 67 lists out at .669 ci, 2500-28000 rpm, 4.7hp/27500 rpm. It has a bore of .968 inches and a stroke of .909 inches. The larger bore and shorter stroke, IIRC, give the marine engine more torque than the OS aircraft engine even though it's operating in a much higher powerband. My present boat runs a Prather 255 stainless steel 2.4X3.8 prop that is balanced, polished and sharpened
Last edited by Hydro Junkie; 01-30-2019 at 07:32 AM.
01-30-2019, 08:17 AM
#12
Hi H5606 ,I hope you realize my post was "Tongue in cheek" , which I tried to convey with the winking emoji at the beginning and end of my post . In reality , I hold no particular favor toward any one single power source and have no romantic attachment to which period in time's powerplant is favored over the others . Yes I do own Electric , Gas , Glow , and Diesel power systems for RC models and believe they all have their place in our hobby . From your opening post #1 I can tell you strongly favor glow , perhaps it's the power system that introduced you to model airplanes ? Also , let's not forget forget that Gas isn't today doing anything to Glow that Glow didn't do to Gas 60 or so years ago
01-31-2019, 05:19 AM
#13
Banned
I wish................we had economic scale rotaries for the WWI guys. I also wish we had economic scale Merlins that produced scale power for the WWII guys. I also wish we had more economic scale looking radials. And starters. We really need a break through in starter technology.
I have an OS 320 4 cyl flat boxer style engine. It's going to simulate a Lycoming in a Piper Cherokee.
I have an OS 320 4 cyl flat boxer style engine. It's going to simulate a Lycoming in a Piper Cherokee.
01-31-2019, 09:45 AM
#14
Hi H5606 ,I hope you realize my post was "Tongue in cheek" , which I tried to convey with the winking emoji at the beginning and end of my post . In reality , I hold no particular favor toward any one single power source and have no romantic attachment to which period in time's powerplant is favored over the others . Yes I do own Electric , Gas , Glow , and Diesel power systems for RC models and believe they all have their place in our hobby . From your opening post #1 I can tell you strongly favor glow , perhaps it's the power system that introduced you to model airplanes ? Also , let's not forget forget that Gas isn't today doing anything to Glow that Glow didn't do to Gas 60 or so years ago
Electric is great. Gasoline is great. I only wish glow would remain acceptable. However, it seems to me that some do not believe glow has or needs a place in this hobby any longer - hence the reason for starting this thread.
Yes, glow is the power system that introduced me to the hobby and I would like to believe that the majority of our aging modeler population have been doing it that way for quite a while.
My first engine is a Cox .049 Babe Bee like everyone had - right? I'm not old enough to have experienced the previous gas/ignition days although I've read about them in books and magazines and know exactly what your sayin'.
I don't have to like what's happening, just accept it I guess... I should just lick my wounds and go back to hoarding glow plugs. Head down, hands in pockets, and kicking pebbles. Shucks.
01-31-2019, 10:20 AM
#15
Part of this is Horizon/H-9 specs electric or gas so that's what was presented.
Funny story, almost any time a glow plane comes up they send it to me because most of the authors don't have the equipment to do glow reviews any more. I fly anything so I'm always "send it!"
Funny story, almost any time a glow plane comes up they send it to me because most of the authors don't have the equipment to do glow reviews any more. I fly anything so I'm always "send it!"
01-31-2019, 10:29 AM
#16
I don't do electric either Then again, I've got a gas boat in the works and plans for four 50cc gas planes that are waiting to be built, not to mention several nitro boats and two to four nitro planes. Hoarding glow plugs isn't a bad idea as long as you keep the head up, hands on sticks and kick anyone between you and the field out of the way. SHUCKS!! I need to get more epoxy glue
01-31-2019, 10:32 AM
#17
Part of this is Horizon/H-9 specs electric or gas so that's what was presented.
Funny story, almost any time a glow plane comes up they send it to me because most of the authors don't have the equipment to do glow reviews any more. I fly anything so I'm always "send it!"
Funny story, almost any time a glow plane comes up they send it to me because most of the authors don't have the equipment to do glow reviews any more. I fly anything so I'm always "send it!"
02-01-2019, 09:34 AM
#19
- I noticed the trend start way back when they introduced one particular mid-size model strictly for gasoline/ignition called the Meridian for 10cc - that's .60 size glow to you and me. Since then, it has been electric and gas/ign subjects only - even for their line of Ultra Sticks! Just trying to stir things up a bit hoping this whining can be heard through the chain of command and somehow make it's way to the top - you know - like a squeaky wheel would somehow get greased.I posted a similar concern in the Glow Engines forum about a year ago here: http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/glow...s-gas-now.html trying to generate some discussion but fell short. Is this what you would call a state of apathy? Doesn't anybody really care?
Glow won't be what it once was but thinking marketing and advertising is what would keep it - not necessarily well - but alive.
02-01-2019, 11:33 AM
#20
Most of your product reviews are nothing more then an infomercial. The Reviewer is obligated to only suggest and outfit the model as per instructed by the manufacturer. When I wrote for a magazine the final copy had to go to the manufacturer for final approval before publication. Andy can confirm if that is still the norm or not.
Unfortunatly glow power is fading away and has been for a long time. I’m sure there are many reasons but the one I hear the most is the lack of availability of glow fuel along with the price. It’s a real shame because IMO that airplane together with an OS 75AX would be a very nice combo. However OS is not a Horizon house brand so I doubt you will ever see a H9 ARF review published with anything but an Evolution engine or Eflight motor.
Unfortunatly glow power is fading away and has been for a long time. I’m sure there are many reasons but the one I hear the most is the lack of availability of glow fuel along with the price. It’s a real shame because IMO that airplane together with an OS 75AX would be a very nice combo. However OS is not a Horizon house brand so I doubt you will ever see a H9 ARF review published with anything but an Evolution engine or Eflight motor.
02-01-2019, 12:17 PM
#21
Yeah, but Saito is and has been; OS now is with Horizon since the absorption of Tower and Evo produces two stroke glow as well...
02-01-2019, 03:07 PM
#22
I would not exactly call Saito a house brand, Granted ever since Horizon evolved from Hobby Dynamics ( which was Circus Hobbies ) they have had the exclusive distributor rights to Saito. One of the only things they have been successful with distributing over the long term. They also had the distributor rights for Webra, Kalt helicopters, JR radios, IM products and a few others Im sure. The issue is when they start producing a house brand that is direct competiton for a brand they have exclusive distributor rights to. One way to limit sales of your competitors is to get exclusive rights for your region and then introduce your own product and push your product more then the other. They did that to JR with Spektrum, they are currently doing that to OS with Evolution. They did that to Kalt helicopters with the now gone Revolution and their Eflight Blade brand.
They are currently IMO headed the same direction of Tower. At one time they had competition modelers such as QQ, Peter Goldsmith, Mike McConville on staff there in Champagne. Not any more, they have what appears to be staff that thinks they can run a hobby business like Amazon. As evidenced by this product review they seem to not have a real grasp of what an experienced modeler is going to want to power a .60 size Warbird with.
02-19-2019, 05:55 PM
#25
However, there was a time not too long ago when other engine manufacturers were advertised as choices to the consumer on Hangar 9 products.
Particular emphasis placed here on the glow selections shown in these pictures: Saito (still available through Horizon/Tower), MDS (no longer available), and the house brand, Evolution are all apparent here. Just including the pic of the Zenoah to make my point.
In addition to the OP subject, F6F Hellcat 15cc and the aforementioned Meridian 10cc, the latest releases in the last couple years don't include any glow ads or even a suggestion of an option as such.
Referring to these:
P-47 20cc
Carbon Cub 15cc
Ultra Stick 10cc
P-51 20cc
Valiant 10cc
What's the deal? Doesn't this look anti-glow to anybody else?
Since we're on this wagon of death for glow, why don't we see any 7.5cc offerings then too? What's holding them back; might as well put the last nail in the coffin and get rid of all the .46's now also.