Liberator

Jim Cherry you should be ashamed of yourself.
This was the very kind of person that we need to keep in this organization and simply because your feel the need to flx your pathetic temination muscle we have lost someone that gave and gave to the AMA for far more years than you.

Jim, the word pathetic needs to be used twice in this post because it so aptly describes you.
You are exactly what is wrong with the AMA and the sooner that folks call for your ouster the better.

Grow up and learn to admit when you are wrong.

KidEpoxy

Liberator-
We see the EC did their stuff closed door, and heard that it was more than just a nod to the chief- there was talking over it done according to Steve, so we havent heard who was & was not in Steve's corner on the matter.... due to the closed nature of it.

But to assume JRice was just being a henchman without knowing who said what, is wrong. For all we know (which is saddly very little) he could have been batting 100% for Steve, or not... we just dont know from the gag order.

Perhaps when the gag order is lifted JRice could say more,
but that closed door gagging of more & more activity in Muncie is what I'm fired up over. First the NominationComitty & Hoss, now we see just the door with Steve.

Jim Rice spoke volumes: He cant talk about the subject.
Dont blame the messenger if the King put a gag on him.


Which now puts us in the position to say we have heard from both sides:
Steve told his side, and the official AMA stand is "none of your business"



<>
And to the other 9 districts out there-
What has your leader said about it? The D8 guy was here in a hearbeat communicating with the masses, while most didnt like what he said, fact is he did come out to say it. Maybe some other DVP will come out of the castle & talk to the peasants, or stay tightlipped about it & hope it just goes without facing the members about it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

This is a truly disgraceful thing to have happened [if the lawn mower incident is all that did happen]and all at HQ who stand behind Mr. Cherry should be ashamed. They should all be ashamed for not having the teaspoon of self respect and the moral sense of direction that it takes to stand up and speak out when an obvious wrong is being done. How pathetic.
Too bad 99.9% of us aren't in a position to boycott the AMA until Steve gets his job back and Jim Cherry gets what he deserves.
I would really love to hear Jims' side of the story now, his silence will speak volumes now that Steve has spoken out.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

From what the D-V VP told his subordinates I don't think it would be in Steve's best interest (looking for job) to make the reasons for his termination public on this or any other forum. How many prospective employers, after reading Steve's side of the story, would want to know the other side?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

What does that have to do with what just happened? When should acting like whipped puppy with a belly full of worms supercede acting like a man?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well at least we know he wasn’t fired for riding a lawnmower, it was for insubordination. I mean Jim did have a point to his actions; he was trying to keep a record on how things were being run at AMA HQ. I mean looking at Jim's resume seems to me he knows where things may or may not be broken when it comes to running a business.

Now maybe Jim's actions were stern and Steve might be a great guy, but from the sound of what people have to say about the people running the show in Muncie, sounds like Jim Cherry has a lot to deal with. Perhaps Steve was the breaking point for Jim, had to be someone I guess. All this "great performance" everyone raves about in the AMA forums in Muncie couldn't last forever.

If AMA members are looking for change in Muncie, it looks like they are going to get it whether they like it or not. But as usual they'll still complain about under any circumstance. But before you throw Jim Cherry in the trash why don't you at least give it some time and see where this leads too. Seems like he has the guts to take action and that's enough for me. At least we know things are happening in Muncie, weren’t working too well before ... or was it ... or wasn't it?

Sounds like what Jim Cherry did was make tough decision to a popular person. What effect will that have on the rest of the people in Muncie ... a wake up call of some sorts I can only assume.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

How can you put such a twisted spin on what just happened? How does jumping on a lawn mower have anything at all to do with keeping track of expenditures?
I guess your viewpoint about the chain of events that led up to Steves' firing has everything to do with your core sense of values.
This story is about the abuse of authority.
It is also about the witnesses of this wrong and their failure to right a wrong. I guess for them, next weeks' paycheck means more than self respect.
I don't care how you want to spin it, you don't fire a man for volunteering his time to help your organization.
Get Real.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Does that include those AMA members who support a volunteers removal? Do a search for "Down With Brown" in every RC forum and see what you come up with. Or are words not as strong as actions?

Like I said, why don't you wait to see what becomes of the end result. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction, most aviatiors and modelers know about that one.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

This thread is about Steves' firing and it needs to be kept on track IMO. There IS room on this forum to start another thread.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Come on there Combat, precedent is staying on subject. You can't say on one hand to it's not fair to bring down a "volunteer" and turn cheek when I give an example or an analogy. I mean what your claming is no different then saying "I didn't sexually harrass my co-worker in the office, AFTER I punched out". Take that to the courthouse and see how far it gets you. A far strech, but the same concept of Steve turing into a volunteer after hours.

Steve is a paid employee of the AMA who has a boss and must take direction from his superiors. They hired Jim to make a turnaround and maybe that turnaround included the fact that his employees run a tight ship. Whether he was riding a mower or anything else does not make an ounce of difference. Perhaps that's exactly what Jim was trying to avoid, his employees turning their hats around on their own free will. But we all know Muncie IS NOT a volunteer based operation. Goodwill can always come with bad ramifications, it happens quite often, ask our American President about that one.

I know Steve is a great guy, but he is a paid employee of the AMA and that comes with responsibilities. If he wants to run for a volunteer position like perhaps and EC slot, he still can. Heck if AMA members feel so strongly about it, sounds like a perfect time for Steve to jump on the write in ballot. Based on his campaign mission, I may be the first to support and vote for him.

Sorry Combat, I'm not as quick as to point finger as others do on this forum, you should know that by now. I believe every word Steve has said and respect him. But Jim Cherry has a tough job and a has to deal with a tough crowd, give it time.

dreadnaut

My Feedback: (5)

Get a lawyer. I am not a litiginous person, nor do I promote frivolous lawsuits. If this is how it went down, and there were no prior pertinent conflicts with management, they were totaly in the wrong.

Lawyer up.

AMA 504480

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Or better yet you might want to fix this comment Steve or you may be the person who might have to lawyer up.

I honestly begged him for my job back and told him I'd do anything he wanted...he would not hear of it and made a comment along the lines of "how would I look to bring you back now".

You might want to say what was said and not what was heard. Just some good advice.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Stl, you made a good analogy, good enough to alter the course of this thread.

DN, before hiring an attorney you have to ask yourself what you hope to gain.

Who would want to step in under these circumstances and become Steves' replacement?

Jim Cherry has made it perfectly clear what kind of a man he is looking for [:-]

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Sure is, crystal clear. Employees are not volunteers and do not take it upon themselves to take actions against the Director and previously agreed upon discussions because they decided to put on a new hat after hours. Sorry but I can actually see the principle in Jim's actions, no matter how wonderful of a person Steve Kaluf is. I can understand why others, especially the EC cannot. To many it's personal, to others it's getting things done.

If it was so bad, action would be taken, however I honestly don't think Jim Cherry is as dumb as people are starting to assume. I've always supported his resume and will continue to do so until I see hard proof that he does not want to lead the AMA in the RIGHT direction. The AMA has been going downhill and only time will tell if it will go north, but we are not there yet. Have faith there Combat, ya never know.

ira d

First I would like to thank MR Kaluf for telling his side of the story and if indeed it
happened as he said then MR Cherry is in the wrong. and even more the
AMA is wrong for not being able to intervene in MR Cherrys actions. I know we
will not likely here from the AMA or MR Cherry on this matter.

Just my .02

JUGFLIER

Stl, It is my understanding from Steve's post that the corresponding Discussion with the DICTATOR stated that The week of the Jamboree he was not to make any request for usage of the equipment..

Lets Break it down. This happened outside the time frame laid out by the Dictator.
It is rational to expect that Steve, ( since he was on vacation ) could have believed that the equipment had already been requested and that request handled thru propor channels. It would be intersting to ask, Is it Mr Dic Cherry's job to keep up with this or Steve's? If Mr. Dic Cherry's then maybe it should have been the IHRC guys to answer for this.

On another thought, was this an official AMA event, or was it an event put on by another organization at the AMA site and was the IHRC people paying for the use of the equipment. These questions will help us ascertain the Mental state of the Dictator.


I am Frankly outraged by this and am ready to start an online petition for the resignation of Mr. Cherry. i have seen too many people who when you give them a little power, you can't live with them. I think of something i heard, The higher up a tree a monkey goes, the more of his backside you can see.

Curtis Scofield
AMA 767441

My name at the top so the King can see it.

SSRCCPREZ

You know thi sreminds me of what I was once told...When you go to Prison, pick out the biggest baddest meanest looking guy and beat the crap out of him, then noone else will ever mess with you, because they figure if you can get the biggest dude in the house your gonna cream them. Maybe in a way Cherry figured he'd weild the termination sword, show that there is no give in what he asks of people and make an example of Steve. Therefor he puts every othe remployee on notice that it's his way or the highway and now he has solid proof. I do not like what has happened, but Cherry has the right to do it. It may have been severe and a bit too far, but,again it's his right. Cherry has to make changes, this may be one of several, only time will tell. I think he ent way overboard, but it was within the four corners of his authority. I am honestly torn here. I have to think that we have to give Cherry to make the changes he sees fit and give him a chance, even if we do ot immediately agree with them. I also am weary of tieing his hands becausde we do not like his action. However I just think this was WAY TOO HARSH.

I would like to add that I have not been a fan of Cherry's and he has given me no reason to, I'll sign your petition

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

STL, my point is that IT WAS SO BAD and no one back there has the spine to do anything about it.

The points you make are purely black and white in concept and would work very well in Hammarabis' time.

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

Shame on you Steve for trying to help out!!!! We have a paved field so feel free to stop by and fly anytime, you wont even have to worry about helping with the grass

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Fair enough Jug, let's break it down. This comment and the one about I posted above, which was blatant hearsay, strikes out at me the most.

Since when do you simply turn your hat around under any circumstances and claim "volunteer - no punch backs" especially if it was discussed previously. If you work for the AMA and you are under the rules of the AMA while you are on AMA property, you follow them or action will be taken and that's what happened.

Now if Jim did not request the use of the mowers and just simply took it upon himself "volunteer to help them out", errrrr by using a lawnmower, then why would you or anyone else need to request a mower in the first place??? Is there a volunteer card you can carry without requesting the use of the mower, like a get out of jail free card??? Can one person request on behalf of third party???

Tell me that something doesn't sound just a little out of place here. This is exactly why I just don't jump to judge Jim Cherry so quickly. Also I would like to know what he really said in regards to "how would that make me look". Obviously he remembered the things that made his side of the story look compelling, just not for Jim. Ya know, give us the whole story or don't give us one at all.

Like I said and will say it again and again, Jim Cherry doesn't sound like a dummy. If I'm wrong, he stood his principle and action will be taken against him. If not, this thread will just pass through time like the rest of them. Sorry but it's not personal to me one bit.

Jim Messer

My Feedback: (2)

A lot of years ago when I worked for a living, I was a design engineer in a large company, designing large reciprocating engines and compressors. There were about ten engineers doing this type of work. One day, the company hired a new chief engineer, and one by one we were interviewed to get acquainted.

After about a week, this new chief fired what we thought was the most brilliant engineer of the bunch, for absolutely no good reason. He was told to clean out his desk, and out the door he went - in a period of about an hour. The rest of us were in shock to say the least, but you have to admit that this new boss had our undivided attention.

I dreaded the years I worked for this man, knowing that one step out of line and I could be gone too. After about ten years this man left to form his own company, and when he did so, he tried his darndest to hire me to go with him. That gave me the opportunity to ask him just why in the heck he fired my friend mentioned above.

He replied - that was precisely to get the attention of everyone left. He knew that by scaring the living bejesus out of us in the beginning, there would be full compliance with his orders from then on, and he was right. He went on to say that no employee is so important to a company that they couldn't survive without him. He offered me this test: If you think you are that important, just stick your thumb into a glass of water, and see how big of a hole it makes when you take it out.

I did not join him in his new company, but retired from my job soon afterward. Then I had the opportunity to go in the consulting business, and this man gave me some really good advice: When you make up your pay scale, make it for lots of money - lots of money - absurd amounts of money. He said that if you charged big time bucks, you would only get hired for the big jobs, and he was right. If a lawyer needed your expertise, and you charged 500 bucks per hour, you would get picked every time over the other guy that only charged 100 bucks per hour.

I worked as an expert witness on several big lawsuits, and thanks to this man that I learned to hate, I made a ton of money using his advice some years later in life.

I think that Jim Cherry might just be this type of person, and his firing of Steve was his way of showing who is really the boss in Muncie.

The AMA will survive, and Steve will survive. Steve will find a better job within the industry, as he is so well known. When this all plays out, I am predicting that Steve will find himself in a new job that he probably likes even better than the one at AMA.

JUGFLIER

Stl, it is reasonable to expect that since this happenstance happened outside of the perameters of the Kings commandment it would stand to reason that the grass in Muncie has to be mowed whether there is an event or not. It is completely rational for Steve to have believed his service of mowing was in accordance with the normal operatuions of Muncie.

It siunds more like to me that we have a person here who has decided to flex his muscle to show he is the great potentate and is to be unquestionably obeyed. The problem with power is when it is weilded without wisdom people are injured. This is right that the EC and the powers that be has to right. I have to question the wisdom of the EC to hire a man and give him unquestionable authority without review by the EC. They had top know something like this had to come up.

A wise man once said,"When the righteous rule, the people rejoice, when the wicked rule, the people lament." Well i think we can see that the people are lamenting.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

It all depends on whether or not someone took it upon themselves to break policy in the interest of themselves wanting to do something they thought was good for others or maybe for themselves. I mean you can't honestly tell me you've never heard of a scenario like this one before. "I was only trying to help, I didn't mean for this to happen". How many times in a lifetime do you hear that sentence and how many times is the scenario a bad one on behalf of the person making the statement?

I know actions are extreme in this case Jug, you have a guy whom found his way around doing something against policy and even came in here to shine the light for all of us. Because I just can't believe for a second that you can take it upon yourself to take any mower for a ride at AMA HQ and not request the use of said mower. He found, errr thought he found a loophole. If this was the case then Steve knew he broke policy no matter how you sugar coat it. But to add icing on the cake, they just had a talk about it a few days before.

I also have a feeling Jim Cherry had more talks about policy when he first came on board and may or may not have had a few thereafter, that's what new bosses do. Feel real bad for Steve, but for Jim to take such an action take guts and that's what it takes to run this organization.

I just want to know one thing, can I take a mower for a ride at AMA HQ without requesting to do so? If so I'll drive it right into the back of my truck. I mean it's not like their mowers are push mowers or anything, I hear they are high quality. But now knowing a little bit more about Jim Cherry, it's prolly going to be a little harder to do such a thing moving forward.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

It would seem that very few on this forum (we should change the name to Lynch Mob) have a clue as to what actually went on in Muncie and what led up to what. Never the less you have formed what amounts to a lynch mob based on the aggrieved person's claim of total innocence. Did you ever know anyone that was fired and said they had it coming? Most prudent people in that situation would downplay it and get on with finding a new position. What happened to all that fairness and justice crap being spouted here with regularity? It is well accepted that many posting here hate Dave Brown - doer of all evil, but here we have what might be one of his loyal followers (or he perceived himself as such) going down and you are out to lynch the man that did it. Amazing.

jonkoppisch

My Feedback: (162)

Ok, Jim's welcome to come by and mow.... er, fly at our field as well