Bob Mitchell

I posted this in the candidate sub-forum, because that's where the allegation was made. I'm posting it here as well because I think this deserves discussion by anyone who has been following the election and the comments of the two candidates.


Let's not tip-toe through the tulips here, OK?

The make-up of the AMA Marketing Committee is public kinowledge. It's chaired by Mark Smith, and includes two senior executives from Horizon and Hobby-Lobby. That's not "word on the street". It's not something he's done outside of AMA. It's a standing AMA committee. This is the group which formulated the PPP program and took it to the EC for THEIR approval.

You are insinuating here that the Marketing Committe (or perhaps the EC as a whole, it's not really clear) have personally benefited from the decisions made to formulate and promote PPP.

Direct question here: Do you believe that Mark Smith (in particular), or any member of the Marketing Committee or the EC has personally benefited from their decisions on implementation of PPP? Do you believe that PPP was established to benefit Mark or anyone else on the EC and not as a program to improve AMA membership numbers? Do you think there is money being exchanged under the table? What exactly do you mean by "feathering their own nests"?

I am sick and tired of "politics by innuendo", whether it's at the national, state, local or AMA level. You are implying something very serious here, and if you don't have anything specific to back it up then you owe them an apology....at the least.

Personally, I don't really expect a direct or responsive answer. That seems to be the way you operate. But if there is any one single question that has been posed to you in this forum that deserves a direct and responsive answer, this is it.

Bob Mitchell
AMA 903015
Lexington, KY 40509
Address and phone number available by PM to anyone who asks

Mr67Stang

Now I may be short sited here but I do not see how the affiliation of the AMA with the marketters of Park Flier type aircraft would benifet the sales of the park flier aircraft. Putting the AMA logo in/on the box might atract 1 member for every 10,000 units sold (number simply pulled fron my nether regions for the sake of arguem... discusion). I don't see anyone getting rich or even a moderate income out of this deal.

I like Hoss's John Wayne attitude in that I believe he will not take (fecal matter) from anyone. I do not like the Gestapo tactics he uses to get a question answered as it has been refered to as Name, Rank and serial number.

As far as the other canadate I have no opinion pos or negative as yet. I am still conducting my personal investigation on that matter. He only has 19 post here on RCU s he may not even realize how many of us want to know what he thinks.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Unreal. Why wouldn't the AMA want to partner with Horizon, Tower, Airhogs and the marketing directors with every one of these companies. What Hoss describes as feathering of nests, we call strategic alliances in the real business world. Having them help the AMA is no different then them spending their dollars in MA. Walk into any AAA office (a not for profit) ... what do you see ... nothing but Disneyworld posters and books as far as the eye can see. Why ... they are a HUGE brand helping a not for profit company increase their brand. Each one benefits the other. Great ... Tower will sell more AMA will sell more ... what more can you ask for?

Sorry Hoss just doesn't get this move ... this is how real business gets done and those guys running the AMA in Muncie now are REAL business people, visionnaries ... they don't need someone in there hamstringing them for any reason what so ever. Just looking to rouse a few of his loyalists ... won't be enough to take it ... no way.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

i dunno bob, but it would appear that having the PPP program would definitely help the bottom line of any distributor of R/C merchandise, the 2 folks who were on the committee included. they get the op to expose folks, who MAY not have ever seen their respective companies add before, to everything their employers have to offer. admittedly the 1000 or so, so far that have signed into the program, remember to discount the full members that opted to drop back a notch to the new level, are a small start, but executives are paid to take a long view in market development, so it may still be a great benefit to them at some point in the future. so, yeah, i see a conflict of interest sorta situation in having sales execs from the industry on our marketing committee.

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Well I bet you would hate to attend a board meeting of any publically traded company.

Jim Thomerson

I think it would be really great for model airplane companies to have huge sales increases and make a lot of money. Might even call it supporting model aviation.

Bob Mitchell

I think that there is little question that if the PPP program takes off and is a huge success that those companies who supply park fliers will benefit. Companies often join forces to launch programs which will benefit both partners. Joint ventures are common. The fact that AMA and Horizon/Hobby-Lobby may benefit from the PPP program is NOT necessarily conflict of interest. It's a partnership where both may benefit.

Now, if the hobby execs on the marketing committee have ONLY their company interest in mind then there is a problem. If they aren't working for the betterment of both AMA and their industry there is a problem. Same with Mark and the EC. If Horrace has such information, then let him post it. If not, he should retract and aplogize.

If the program is successful, then certainly the hobby execs are going to get some credit for their involvement. In exactly the same manner the Marketing Committee and the EC would get to take credit for expanding membership. To me that seems like a win-win situation. Or a lose-lose situation if neither results. Even if sales go up and AMA remains stagnant, you don't automatically have some conflict of interest. You have a business venture that didn't play out as planned.

What Horrace is clearly implying here is that either the Marketing Committee or the EC or both made this decision for personal gain of some sort, and not in the interests of AMA. Unless..........and in the context he said it seems ridiculous to me.........that by "feather your nest" Horrace meant that Mark ot the committee or the EC could "feather their nest" because they could take credit for a membership increase. Mark is a volunteer. He has no above the table financial stake in improving AMA membership roll numbers. Horrace clearly insinuates that Mark or the EC have some financial stake in this, which could only indicate some sort of under the table financial hijinks.

Who is in a better position to assist AMA in marketing itself than marketing execs from the hobby industry? I don't see eye to eye much with STL, but his reply to me is right on the money. Strategic alliances/joint ventures/business partnerships work when put together properly. Is it a conflict of interest when after booking your ticket on the Delta Airlines website that you are then presented with a link to Hertz? This is no different.

I think Horrace needs to put-up or shut-up on this one. He continually reminds us of how he won't be silenced, how he will tell it like it is, hang the consequences. Let him do so now.

Bob Mitchell

We don't often see eye to eye, but you are right on the money with this one. No question.

KidEpoxy

From OP
I just went to both the Horizon and Hobby-Lobby webstores
and guess how many 1/2A - A nitro engines they have for sale
(the size engine a <2lb <60mph park yard plane uses).

I imagine in completely unrelated news
the guys that dont sell small glow engines somehow decided to make the discount small plane teir be electric only. I wonder what the PPP would look like if a 1/2A - A glow seller/distrib was invited.

Corruption? Probably not.
Conflict of interests? Not if there were no 1/2A-A flyers in AMA... but there are.
Protection of involved industry interests at the expense of some AMA'ers (1/2a A)? You bettcha



<Dont get up about 'noise', I fly for $29PPP at a loud glow club
discounting quiet planes at noisey fields dont make sense
and Vegas Aces were not told by the school No Glow>

Bob Mitchell

Ya think?

Bob Mitchell

Or just perhaps that's where they see significant growth potential. The marketing guys for the big hobby companies aren't dummies. They're just like any other marketing specialist. They're gonna look at the demographics and decide where the growth potential is, and then market to that area.

These guys carreers rest on making the right decision on where the growth will be, and positioning the company to market to and supply those areas. I think they could care less whether it's small electrics or 1/2A glow. They want to know where the volume will be and that's where they are going to spend their money and make their efforts.

Do you have any comments on what Horrace said/implied?

The Toolman

Tell ya what bob, we've all figured out you don't like Hoss. So why don't ya just cut the crap an let it go, since you are going to vote for Smith or none of the above.

You remind me of stl. Just keep dragging up the same stuff over an over. And you know what most of us here think of him!

I'm gonna vote for Hoss, and you don't see me making a jillion different posts about how bad Smith is on here, now do ya?

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Really Ron, why don't you tell me what you and everyone else thinks about me. Don't worry there big fella, there's a computer screen blocking you ... go for it.

KidEpoxy

Bob, I was addressing the text from Hoss in the OP.
And the allegations you find in Hoss' text.

I am a park flyer. Have been for years.
I fly AP, Cox, Norvel planes in the park... most of them (non-twins) fit the 2/60 rule.

I have not requested AMA to make their own definition of PArkflyer as electric only.
I too think some industry interests influenced that.
I would explain this further, the influences I suspect,
but just did in my previous post on what Hoss said and the allegation found by folks in Hoss' comments.

Red Scholefield

My Feedback: (9)

Just try your 1/2A flying in any of the close in to residential areas where electrics (of any size) are being flown and see how long before you are shown the door and the field is shut down losing it for electrics as well. How do you know what the school told the Vegas Aces? Maybe they went to the school with a proposal for electric only knowing that quiet would sell.

Bob Mitchell

I would guess that if Mark had made the same implications towards Horrace you would have had something to say about it. At least I hope you would. I certainly can't see you accepting such a slur without challenge.

Have you no curiosity about the basis for Horrace's comments? No interest as to whether they are fact or fiction? If fact it would change my vote. I have absolutely no respect for someone who would take such a position and use it for personal gain. If fiction, I hope it would change yours. I also have no respect for someone who would make such a claim about another to use for their personal gain.

It will be interesting to see if Horrace chooses to reply.

BTW, RCKen informed me that I couldn't post the same question in the candidate sub-forum because it was a duplicate of this. He gave me the choice, and I asked him to delete that one and leave this one standing.

The Toolman

I tell ya what Bob, I was in county politics here for almost 5 years. From the day one, I seen how it was controlled by outside interests (lobbyists or biz's) an perks for the politicians. I finally quit after I got arrested for getting in to it with a construction (sewer) inspector over how things we're being done half azzed from the plans. All of the rest of the board knew exactly what was going on an decided to not rock their boat of free meals an other perks to numerous to mention. They never even lifted a finger to stand by my side.

We have a Homeowners assn. here that we are going to take to court because of the same type things going on in it. Whats bad, is that it will cost us individual HO's for a lawyer, an the HO assn will also hire a lawyer using our money that was paid to them for road an maintenance dues in the first place.

So don't tell me that an org is always on the up an up. I believe the United Way or one of them here awhile back got in some deep stuff over some of their biz practices an leaders outlandish salaries.

I've been around alot of these type deals an have yet to run across one that is completly on the up an up.............

STLPilot

My Feedback: (21)

Terrific great story. Hope you held on to the soap real tight.

Regardless, Hoss is running for AMA executive vice president RIGHT NOW. He made an allegation and he should explain to his potential membership, who use survey monkey (pun), what he meant by these charges EXACTLY. He's running for the 2nd most important job in the AMA and he non challantly is accusing wrongdoings with NO proof other then to serve his agenda of convincing you and 2 others in this forum that he's the right guy for the job.

Bob Mitchell

Ron, you're putting words in my mouth. I haven't claimed that everything the AMA leadership is doing or has done is on the up and up. How would I know?

I'm talking about this one specific allegation that Horrace has made. As you, I am also getting pretty cynical about politics, at every level. We've got a Senate race here in Kentucky this year that has gotten so dirty on both sides that I wish both of 'em would go crawl under a rock and stay there. IMO innuendo politics should have no place in a vote for a voluntary leadership position in a hobby/sport organization. And yeah, I'm probably grasping for straws. Doesn't change my mind, though.

I meant what I said. If this should be true, it would change my vote. I also suspect that if it WAS true and could be substantiated, we would have heard about it much sooner than this. Horrace would have been all over it like white on rice. I also meant what I said about it not being true, and you should give that some thought. I wouldn't want to give my vote to someone who would use AMA for his own personal gain, and I hope you wouldn't give your vote to someone who would falsely smear someone in an attempt to gain your vote.

Horrace has made an ugly little insinuation here, and should either support it or retract it. As I said, Horrace has made it very clear that he will never be silenced. Never be drowned out. He will be heard. Well, he's got my attention and I'm listening if he should choose to speak.

The Toolman

Your probably right Bob, but if I had to change my 2 votes at this household they would probably just go to the trash can...

The Toolman

I'll tell ya another thing Bob, after seeing how 99.9% of elections are run, I think both canidates should be there looking over the election officials shoulders when the votes are counted.

mongo

My Feedback: (15)

yeah, kinda hopping they got that whole "no audit trail" thing outa their systems on the leader member vote.

Bob Mitchell

I hear ya. I don't know what I'd do either.[]

Bob Mitchell

Given my short tenure in the AMA all I've heard is stories about irregularities, and sometimes it's hard to separate the wheat from the chaff after the fact. Hopefully with these going to a supposedly neutral third party it won't turn into an issue.

Whatever the outcome, for all the elections this year, I hope they are near landslides. If we need recounts, maybe AMA could contract with Katherine Harris.

Stickbuilder

Dion,

I'm in Leesburg Florida, and I am not hiding behind anything. My name is Bill Hurt, and if you wish, I'll post my street address. I think that you and the truth are not well aquainted. In fact, I think you are total strangers.

Bill, AMA 4720