knucklebutt

O.K. heres the report: I just stumbled accross an product report on the 160 twin by Clarence Lee. Yeah good ole Clarence

he lists the rpm range for all the props listed in the manual

the 18X8 turned 7400 for him so I am at least 1000 off. So back to the engine to find the culprit !!!!!!

did I mention I just love to work on engines !!!! I mean why go fly when you have a an engine just waiting to be torn apart ??


Denis (on his way to the work bench)

Free Bird

MKauffman,

I'd be very interested in seeing some pics of your tail wheel installation. Please post pics and other needed details. Thanks!

FB

ClayH

Thought I'd give the readers of this thread a heads up that I'm selling a brand new in box TF Staggerwing with the Robart 530STAG retracts and a new G-38 engine for $650 plus shipping. Will sell w/o engine too. Lost my job and have to liquidate. Will posta full ad in the classifieds.

Thanks,

Clay
714-307-1172
Garden Grove, CA

LeoFred

Here are the pics of a pneumatic tail wheel retract. The brace holding the rudder and elevator push rod tubes had to be knotched out to allow the pneumatic line attach points to pass forward. Since the brace was compromised it was then strengthened with 1/8 Sig plywood as can be seen in the pic. Also there are two other points to consider. Notice that the tail wheel door hinges are not epoxied in but 2-56 screw and nuts were used. They were hinged in this manner to allow them to be taken off for ease of maintenance in the tail wheel hole. Also, the original method to open the doors on extending caused exceedingly too much friction and the tail wheel would not come down. Notice the pic where two round plastic buttons were used eliminating friction through the complete gear swing. The button can be purchased at Lowes.
Hope this has been helpful.

kochj

I have the same engine...
I purchased used. Ran once back in 2007, and placed back in a box.......
It sat in there untill it was sold to me!.....
As you all know 10+ years of sediment means I should at the very least turn it over without the plugs.....
Yep.... Everything is bound up very much....
Tore it completely apart....Everything was cleaned and polished....

The engine has a C&H ignition on it.... and has some gas run through it....

I have been running manual specified fuel through it.....Gas fuel through a Alcohol/nitro carb means very touchy
settings and I do not want to worry about that right now...
It has the airbleed type carb (now discontinued) and does have some loading in the midrange.....
People have commented that the new carb is the way to go....so I may order it up....
I will let you know what I get out of my engine......
I have not checked with a tach as of yet,,, I will post results....

kochj

Iceman..............

When you ran the blue perry pump, did you also run a tee in the fuel fitting (bypass line)
I know you ran one so you could feed both carbs but
you didn't do the fuel bypass line that some use when the fuel presure is too
high and you have to reduce the needle setings too much...???

Thank you
Justin..

knucklebutt

Kochj: Thanks for the post. Very interested to see what your results are. I have been using the "wood" master airscrew props which are quite thick and heavy. Just ordered a 18X6 Zinger, which is what Clarence Lee used in his artical. Didn't even know there was a Ignition system for this engine, I just have the plain ole glow plugs, anyway let me know


Thanks

Denis

kochj

Yes.... You can put ignition on anything.....wether you use gas or alcohol/nitro is up to
the end use.....

Yamada (YS) now has a ignition offering for there flagship 1.70 pattern engine....
It was designed (like the C&H ignitions) to make the handling of the engine
easier to run, and get longer run times......

I ran the engine last night in my garage... (10pm ....I am sure my neighbors just love me!!)
and wanted to see if I could live with the airbleed carb.....(undecided as of yet)


Justin.

kochj

results are in!!!!!!!!!!

My ignition battery in need of a re-charge, so I didn't spend anytime trying to
advace/deture the system, I just ran as is:
tested both with ignition/spark plugs, and no ignition and glow plugs
they were the same rpms... I could lean out the needle more with the
ignition sytem than stock setup.


Master airscrew smintor I thought it was a 17x6 (couldn't tell if it was a 6 or 8)
and became worried when I only saw 6400-6800

Turns out, they do not make a 17x6 so here they are......
WIldcat 15%nitro 18% synthetic and some castor added by me for JIC lean condition...

Master Airscrew 17x8 Maple Wood Scimitar Propeller 6400-6800's RPMs
APC 17x6 Propeller = 7800's rich fuel settings.

I really don't see a 8000 RPM's out of the 17x6 APC but who knows.....

No way do I see 8000 + with a 18x8!!!!

knucklebutt
CHeck your rpm's with a 17x6 APC... You may be just fine!...

ffdq

My Feedback: (4)

Hi Clay,do you still have the staggerwing for sell.If so let me know,Im interested.
Fred

knucklebutt

Justin: wow I missed your post, must have just slipped by. I have been waiting to re-test my engine until I saw your results. So appreciate the info. Its a fairly cool day here in arizona so its gonna get run this morning. Lets see what I get.


Thanks again

Denis

knucklebutt

Justin: Looks like we are on the same page here. I just ran the engine, I used a "Zinger" wood prop 18X8 (Clarence Lee sais he got 7400) well I get 6400, bout the same you got: That was with "Morgan" fuel 15%. NOW !!! I ran some 20% I just purchased just to see the difference, and got 6700. I dont have a 17" APC but did try a 16X6 APC and got 9200.

So !!!!!!! the 6400 with the 15% certainly seem to "feel" like it would fly the plane O.K. however when it went up to 6700 with the 20% felt very different. It just felt better (I'm you know what I mean) just seemed to feel like its gonna crank this plane down the runway.

Might be a good idea to test fly with the 17"APC first



Denis

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

Well, here it is 12 days later with no updates...
What's up, Denis????
WE are "lurking".....

knucklebutt

O.K. well thanks for the lurk:

So after getting the OS twin dialed in using a 17X8 Zinger, I actually had not even ballanced this plane yet. So placing everything as far forward as possible , receiver and glow battery right up against the firewall (drum roll please!) picked it up 5 1/2 from the leading edge (bottom wing) and that bloody tail dropped so fast it just about made a dent in the concrete. Weight 19 lbs. So not wanting to add weight to this plane, heres a pic of what I am doing.

Opinions please::: is the heat from the engine be a problem to the reciever battery ????


having said all that; I'm expecting a test flight this friday

Denis

teamscalepilot

My Feedback: (2)

Make sure you check your CG You will find you will have to add Wt. to the nose.

MKauffman

Our Staggerwing uses the OS 160FX engine and the battery enclosure is mounted 8 inches forward of the datum (the wings leading edge) and directly opposite the engine in order to get the aircraft CG on the forward side of the CG range. Digital scales and a spreadsheet program were used to determine aircraft CG (similar to weighing full scale aircraft) and the process works out great for determining how much weight needs to go where on any new build.

For our particular Staggerwing, a 4CP-3600CR rx pack was required (purchased from Maxx Products) that provided the proper balance weight in combination with the battery enclosure purchased from Newark Electronic Components. Extra long bolts were ran thru a J-TEC engine mount in order to fasten the battery enclosure. Additional openings were added to the port side of the mock engine and the bottom of the cowling was opened up even more to increase air circulation over the engine and battery.

Three ounces of lead were added to the battery enclosure after the last flight to move the CG closer to the forward limit and tweak flight characteristics. We hope to fly again this week to determine if more air circulation is necessary to keep the engine and battery properly cooled.

Michael

knucklebutt

O.K. gang here's an answer to my own question: I recieved an E-Mail from Steve at Hangtime hobbies/NoBS Batteries: who I have build all my batteries (highly reccomended)
http://www.hangtimes.com/

""""Hi Denis

Yep... high temps affect any battery system. When the pack is hot, impedance is impacted, voltage is depressed, ability to accept a charge reduced, useable capacity is reduced, etc. Also worthy of consideration, vibration can pop welds, break down internal insulators and lead to catastrophic failure. Quickly.

Regarding the installation shown.. for an ignition pack, that may be a tentative 'workable' location with adequate airflow from cowl ducting, temps may be manageable, you should keep the pack below 120 degrees if possible, however 'cook off' temps after the engine is shut down are likely to put that pack into severe thermal stress. Something to consider on hot days; the heat from that engine is basically gonna cook that pack on the aluminum baking sheet you have it on. I see nothing in that pic that indicates any defense against vibration.. that's not good.

Outstanding metal work, though!

That is NOT a suitable location for an Rx/Servo pack... period. Ignition pack, maybe.. with some precautions as indicated above. But the Rx pack up there.... never. Too close to the ignition field, too hot, too much vibration. As an Ignition pack.. ignition failure; you are a glider. Rx pack failure.. you are a pile of sticks. Rule of thumb.. don't mount a battery pack where you would not mount a receiver.

Hope this helps..

Steve"""""


After reading that, my receiver pack goes back behind the firewall. Now I have to go find all my lead lead weights

Denis

F82FAN

My Feedback: (10)

As shown in previous episodes, my RX and OBG batts are mounted up on top of my engine - just like that. The big diff is that yours is a twin with the Cyls much closer to the packs than my single Saito 1.80......
no probs with mine - although I do have a block of lead under my plate in order to balance things out - it also keeps the direct temps down, too.

Good luck with ol' Porky! We've ALL been there, but those that haven't think theirs will be SO much lighter!!!

Wally - still lurkin around this thread..........

GaGeeBees

My Feedback: (23)

My battery pack for the onboard glow (4-cell, sub-C) is mounted directly behind the engine and in front of the firewall. My Rx pack (5-cell, sub-C) is directly behind the firewall. Fortunately the big Enya v-twin is heavy enough that I don't have any lead hanging anywhere on the plane. When I first had it powered with the Saito 1.70 radial it needed 26 ounces of lead mounted to the firewall. I'm now a firm believer in only adding weight that contributes to turning the prop

knucklebutt

Yeah I certainly agree: dead weight sucks: I really though with the 160 twin and really sticking everything right against the firewall would do the trick: so I figuer I will need about a pound "0" lead up front, actually doing that as we speak.

maybee it will fly better as it gets heavyer: yeah thats it see I feel better already ????



Denis

GaGeeBees

My Feedback: (23)

A pound isn't that bad. It still won't have the wing loading of your average warbird.

Speaking of warbirds, how's that great looking Ryan you're going to sell me one day?

knucklebutt

The Ryan: oh yeah !!

Two test flights in June (both successful) then the second week of June we had temps of about 110-115, which just broke into the 90s about two weeks ago. Just wasn't up to doing any more flight with it so here it sits.

If I can get a test flight on the staggerwing Friday, then I'm draggin the ryan out Monday. Big Scale fly in the week of the 24th





Denis

GaGeeBees

My Feedback: (23)

Video the test flight, please.

I'm hoping to fly mine this weekend if the weather will cooperate.

kochj

You could also grab some heavy spacers for your engine instead of using those "light weight"
plastic ones... Even using Aluminum would make a difference...
you could also move the engine out further than what the manual states....this always helps if you can do it w/o
any ill effects...

Are you balancing with the aluminum spinner included??
This should make things much better..???

Side note....
Ran my Gemini on gas 20-1 mix and it ran great.....
now if I can pick up the updated carb, I will not have any leanning out when nose high
with the model....right now it is wayyyy to much of a difference....
I am aware there is always some, but it would be better all around with the updated carb....

knucklebutt

Kochj

Yep ballancing with the spinner,

I could move the engine, however everythings alreay set up for the position its in: might try the heavy spacers, pretty sure its just gonna need that wad "O" lead

hey what prop are you using: I'm gonna start with an APC 17X8 then try a Zinger 18X6 or 18X8



Denis