rcworld2000

ok i am building my first kit this winter it is a top flite elder 40 from tower hobbies..

does anyone have one of these out there if so give me some good motor sugestions and some pics if you have them still thinking of color scheme looking for ideas?

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Do a build thread in the kit building forum. There will be a lot of advice from other builders there.

Charlie P.

Thunder Tiger Pro-46. Great for anything .40 size.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

There is already a good Elder 40 build thread in the "kit building" forum. Search it and pull it up. Read on, lots of good info. BTY, IMHO the Elder is not a good first kit build, but if you can do it ,more power to you!.

rcworld2000

why is that larry ?
i have built several arfs

and have hand cut and built several foam planes like the polarus and the aerocat

rcworld2000

what would be a good first kit ?

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Being how we are still in the beginners forum this may help others understand a little about kit building. You can't compare an ARF to a kit in any way and they don't provide you with any real building skills, the term is assembled a few ARFs, not building, some builders really get upset when people use the term build when speaking of an ARF, I'm not one of them.
Three are three main types of builders, Scratch building is when you start with a blank sheet of paper and design and draw your own plans for a plane, I did that as a kid but it's a lot of work, these days you have a CAD program in a puter and can do it a lot better then I ever did.
Then there are plan builders like myself, we just buy plans for a plane and then cut our own kit from them, not very hard and we can make all the changes we want in the build.
Then there is the kit builder who buys the kit with all the wood parts pre-cut, kits come with most the hardware too and even has pre-bent wires, plans and instructions.
I have never built the Elder but it's a cool looking plane, I also haven't pulled up any build thread so don't know what is involved. What I see is the stick built part of the fuse fuse, it's very old school and may present some problems for a new builder?
Anyone with some talent at wood working should be able to build most kits though, some types are just a bit harder.
When I instruct a student in kit building I use the 4* 60 from SIG, it's an easy build and a big enough plane for most people.
Another good choice is any of the Fun Fly type of planes like the Tower Up-Roar.
First thing you should do now is go into the kit building forum and pull up an Elder build and follow it to see if it is a good kit for you. Not ever building one I really wouldn't know.
Most any of the kits from Tower or SIG are made to be easy builds, good instructions and they have photos of each stage of the build. You do need to think things through though before you glue but building isn't all that hard. I built my first plane at 8 years old by myself in 1956 and it flew very well, just didn't look as good as the planes the big guys built but I learned. It's a lot easier today so go for it. Just look up the build first and make sure you will be able to finish your first kit.
There is more then enough help in the building forum, like way too much.
For foam planes I got one of the auto feed cutters that goirish makes, Gene really makes a nice one. It really makes a nice wing with full airfoils. There are people on line that sell templates so you can make a foam plane with full shapes to the plane so it doesn't look like a slab foamie, I want to try to cut and build one this year, something completely different that I have never done.
Gene

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

rcworld2000, Gray beard covered a lot of good points. The reason I questioned your choice of the Elder for your first kit build is that it requires several building skills and techniques that you likely haven't been exposed to yet,.You said first kit and this is the beginners forum so I am assuming a simpler build such as the Sig four star that G.B. suggested or a simple box fuselage trainer type plane would give you a better chance for completion and success with the build. Sorta of taking it in EZ steps so you don't bite off more than you are ready for. Kit building can be frustrating and a lot of kits get started and never completed. The specific areas in the Elder build that could give a first time builder fits are:1) the cowl area requires soaking and warping sheet balsa to a compound curve to create the cowl and the transition from it to the fuselage sides,2) the open framework at the rear half of the fuselage is a hardwood that is is difficult to get any glue to "bite " into for strong joints. It requires accurate angle cutting for the joints and is harder to work with than a balsa framework, 3) the main landing gear is made up of two or three pieces of wire that must be soldered together using the wire wrap technique, 4) finish shaping the fuselage/cowl requires sanding, shaping, and filling skills. There is no "rocket science" to any of what I just pointed out , just skills and techniques that may be new to you, and you may want to learn one or two per kit not all at once. The Top Flight Elder kit has great instructions, photos, and good plans. This is the type of kit brand that is great to learn on because of the check list type instructions that they provide. Other manufactures of equal quality kits and with good EZ to follow instructions would be Sig, Great Planes, and Balsa USA . Balsa USA has a high wing trainer with an old timer type style, not a box with wings, that is tailored just for first time builders and should be considered. If I have sold you short on skills for your first build that's not my intent. I want you to try a kit but I also want you to successfully complete it and fly it. That first flight with a kit build plane of your making will be much more satisfying to you than any ARF no matter what the subject of your build is. If you are sure you can handle the Elder build, go for it. However if after reading the Elder build posts in the kit building section and thinking about it you are not sure then hold off on this kit and practice your wood working skills on a little easier first project. This might give you a better quality Elder when you do build it. In either case the guys here on RCU will help when needed. And yes, I have built the Elder and a few of my posts are in the Elder build thread but several went before as well as after me on that thread all adding good information. Search it and read it all! Good luck

AllModesR/C

What about the GP 42?

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

IMHO, no on the GP 42. TT Pro 46, OS 46 FX, and OS46 AX, Yes to all of them. The GP 42 will not have enough thrust to easily fly this plane. If it gets it off the ground it will be a struggle to keep it in the air. I first tried an OS 40 FX in mine and it wasn't enough for this airframe with as much drag as it has. My Elder is "scaled out" with flying wires, a machine gun, etc., flying off a grass runway and I found a 46 FX to be much better both for takeoff roll and once in the air. Others claim to fly theirs with an OS 40 or 46 LA with success. I am not an advocate for overpowering everything you fly but the GP 42 would have it's work cut out for itself in this "brick". If you do want to try the 42 have an up size engine that will bolt right in using the same mounting holes, throttle linkage, same weight, etc. ready and waiting for an engine swap. My 40 and 46 FX were a direct bolt in swap so it was easy and I planed for the possibility of swapping them.

rcworld2000

ok guys.. thanks i think iwill look into anther kit for my first build

rcworld2000

hey 52larry52 thaks for all the info what do you think of the Top Flite Contender Gold Edition Kit ?

also what is the name of the kit from balsa usa?

TomCrump

I think Larry is referring to the BUSA Student Trainer. http://shop.balsausa.com/product_p/426.htm

I've looked at this kit, and think it would be an excellent choice if a modeler would like to learn how to build. It exposes the novice builders to many aspects of construction, without overwhelming him with and single aspect, such as cutting precise angles, multiple times.

The Sig kits mentioned are good choices, too. I would not suggest any kits from the Craftsman Series, however. They are a bit figity for a low time builder.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

Tom beat me to it, rcken was going to do a build thread on this plane, it's something new that came out about a year ago. ken got too busy to do it though and I never saw the build happen. I was looking forward to it though thinking it may be a better first build then the 4* series. It tries to teach the new builder a lot of the aspects involved in several different types of planes all in one package.
I also didn't want to discourage you from building the Elder. I just wanted you to know it is a lot different then an ARF and you should go look at the different build threads to see if it is something you think your able to do. We can't tell what type of skills you have with wood working. In my wood working club most any of the members would be able to build model kits without any problem without ever having done it before.
Before you decide you need to go read the build threads. A little time spent seeing how others do things will be a big help. The threads will show what type of glues were used and how the sheeting was done.
Just do a search in the building forum and read before you decide anything. I would still like to see a build thread on the BUSA kit before I decide if it would be as good of a learning tool as it looks.
Gene

Charlie P.

The Contender is a great flying model. Kit has a few tricks but isn't too bad. Covering the turtledeck is a bit tricky, and you definitely want to read the manual several times and do it as they recommend. The built up nose I found pretty fun to carve out. I added about 50% more rudder area and am happy with it.







Very robust. I'd recommend the Fults dual-strut nose gear if you sly off grass. And it would NOT be the best first model for learning to fly. Very much flies where you point it and has no self-correcting tendencies. Make a perfect second plane or just a good sport plane. The apron flap is fun to land with.

[email protected]

My Feedback: (1)

rcword 2000 why not get a good trainer go to a field and ask the men there what u got is not to good a trainer my thoughts

TomCrump

Many experienced pilots keep a trainer on hand. They are fun to fly !

I'm building a Kadet Senior, right now. My build thread may provide the OP with a small insight as to what is involved in building a kit. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/kit-...ior-sport.html

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

I agree about trainers, I don't have one in the shop at the moment but have to borrow one from a friend when I get a student pilot but I really like having one on hand for wind flying. The Kadet has a lot of stick cutting in it too but it's mostly balsa so gluing isn't a problem. Last stick build I did I ended up using epoxy and Sigment for the build but it was all 1/8 hardwood .
The OP states he has assembled several ARFs so he may already be a good enough pilot without the need of a flight instructor??

rcworld2000

I have a few trainers. i have been flyin for three years. just wanting to fly someting i build.. so im still trying to decide on what to build. i have the elder kit on hand but i dont mind buying another.

TomCrump

If you have the Elder, build it. If you run into problems. many of us will be around to help.

rcmichael

My Feedback: (21)

If you have anyone experienced in building to help you should do fine. I have flown the elder and it flies like a trainer. I would recommend a Saito 62 four stroke. Burns less fuel, sounds better and doesn't fly the plane as fast as most 2 strokes. I would recommend having help with running a 4 stroke engine, due to differences in rpm, prop size etc from an experienced flyer.

52larry52

My Feedback: (1)

rcworld2000, I don't have much more to add. Tom, Gray,and Charlie have answered your questions and more. These guys know and are shooting you straight, "hear and heed" (listen and learn). Yes, the Balsa USA plane I mentioned is the Student Trainer" as Tom correctly pointed out. I couldn't remember the correct name. If you do build the Balsa USA Trainer and you sorta feel you may not need another trainer, build it as a taildragger with flaps. That will give you more to play with when flying. You can also add a finished cockpit with a pilot, instrument panel, and what ever else comes to your mind. "scale" it up with wing struts, etc., it's a blank canvas that you get to paint to your liking. That's part of the fun of building. look at Tom's kit bash on a Sig Kadet Sr. OK I said I didn't have "much" more to say, I didn't say I have "no" more to say! 4 Star 40/60, Tiger 40/60, Sig Kadet (any), Balsa USA Trainer, ALL GOOD...Pick one and GO!

rgburrill

The first time you build a kit it is a good idea to read the instructions 3 times. (Note: I do this with all my builds, not just the first one.) The first time to get an idea of how the kit goes together and where the warnings and cautions are. The second time have your kit with you and locate the pieces and try what the instructions say. This helps you locate those areas that may require more care and those that are simple to do. And it also shows where the kit has ERRORS. The third time have your glue handy and have fun. The second and third times you should also follow along with a build thread that has been done here.

iflyg450

The Contender was my first kit build. It was easy to build and it flew great!! My flew with a Super Tigre G51, it had plenty of power. The instruction where easy to flow and it had a good hardware pack (just don't use the CA hinge) I say go for it!

Battle Short

My Feedback: (5)

Just to throw another suggestion in the mix, look at the kits Bruce Tharpe produces. Excellent quality kits. Google "Bruce Tharpe Engineering" (BTE) for his website. I would suggest his Venture or Flyin' King, depending on what type of plane you want (and what he has in stock-his kits tend to sell out pretty quickly). He has the building manuals online, you'll be able to read through it prior to deciding if it is right for you.

Glenn