OsiViper

My Feedback: (1)

l am going to be getting an RC8T soon and im debating between keeping it nitro or converting it to electric.
I was reading that people have to replace nitro engines after only 5 or so gallons. it seems like for a $200-$400 engine that it should last longer than that.
while i dont like having to carry around a lot of batteries it seems like it would be cheaper going electric so i dont have to replace engines every few gallons.

HerrSavage

Taken care of, most engines should easily last more than five gallons. I buy mostly the cheap Taiwanese engines - and am totally happy with them btw - , and they seem to get a solid eight-ish gallons or so. They never cost more than $150, and do their job well. With the more expensive engines, you can do more maintenance-type stuff on them over time - change conrods and bearings, etc.., and get ten+ easily.. I like the cheap SH engines 1.) cuz they're cheap, 2.) they run well, 3.) if something goes wrong and I ruin an engine, well, it's not like I spent - and therefore risked - a fortune on it.., and 4.) they're just very user-friendly, not too picky to tune, match pipes and plugs with, etc.. Run one for eight gallons then buy another one.. Easy.. Also, having 3-4 RC's to keep running makes me tend to the cheaper engines. For the most part, the price difference isn't worth the performance difference from cheap to expensive engines, IMO. At least performance that I really need(12 minute run times for ex.. Who needs that except the most serious racers?..)

In any event, most nitro engines should make eight gallons easily if you take care of them, don't run them too lean, etc.. Eight gallons is a lot of fuel. I have several RC's and twice as many engines, and I've had eight gallons take two years for a couple of them..(OK, due to work, weather, other commitments, etc.. I can't run nearly as much as I'd like.., but still..)

If you get for ex an OS 28 or OS 25XZ for your RC8T, and don't run it like a bonehead, you should get eight gallons without worries.. (I'm considering one of those engines for my SC8 btw, but am really looking for a killer deal...)

If you have no experience with nitro, get a cheap SH engine to learn on, and something "better" later once you've got the hang of things..(you can get a Losi 454 out of an 8T 2.0 for cheap on e-bay.. Will easily overpower your truggy - good for bashing... Just a bit thirsty for competitive racing..)

For mindless plug-and-play, go electric.. I don't find it nearly as exciting though.. But hey, some people like it, so whatever - to each his own...

D.DJ

You can easily get more than 8 gallons out of an engine, you just have to make sure it always gets lots of lubrication and never runs lean or too hot. If heard of ppl running more than 20 gallons on one complete engine, minus the break-in period. It just comes down to how often you use it,m how its tuned and how the engine is treated, use it hard and it lasts less. Use it easily, it will last longer.

HerrSavage

That's right.. I was being conservative with eight gallons. As a matter of fact, with one exception(a Sportwerks 26 that died after 5-6 - had a leaky carb or something I think.. Might even still run fine with a new carb for all I know...), any SH gallon I've retired at eight gallons or so was still going strong.. After eight gallons I generally just want a new engine for the hell of it...

supertib

Guys...rating engine by how many gallons they last isn't an accurate means to measure engine life at all...... The cheap Taiwanese engines are usually very hard on fuel and burn thru fuel much faster then a quality race engine.....A Mach 427 may get 8 minutes per tank meanwhile my modded Werk's B5 can get 14 minutes per tank.... So if they both last 8 gallons the modified B5 actually last nearly double the lifespan..... Guys who have these cheap engines bragging up how many gallons they can guzzle in a lifetime is meaningless....My Chevy Big Block truck gets 6MPG and my Toyota Corrola gets 30MPG...are we going to compare their lifespan by how many gallons each consumes ? Cheap engines guzzle fuel, expensive engines miser fuel.....In actual on the ground running time a quality engine will have significantly longer lifespan then some cheap Taiwanese engine..

VooDooModified

Not to mention that a gallon of fuel for these little engines is quite a bit. I completely agree with Supertib about cheap engines vs. quality engines.

EITHER way, if your getting 5-8 gallons of fuel through and engine...you had some fun! And if you have taken care of an engine to the point that it actually laste 5-8 gallons, chances are that a new rod and a sleeve pinch would be enough to restore performance.

HerrSavage

Racing a Mach 427 I get ten minutes to a tank EASILY, and can push my pit stops significantly later than guys running VSPECs... Have done it several times. Ten minute pits, no problem. So trying to compare eight to 14(also something unrealistic on a regular basis) is pushing the comparison by a good margin.

Do the high end race engines get better fuel mileage? Sure, but it's not THAT big a deal from a VSPEC to a Mach 427, talking purely run-time.. And god knows Machs have better reps when it comes to conrods and bearings... (just to single out one, and possibly the most popular race 21's of the last five years..) The VSPEC might be better in other ways - idle, responsiveness, etc.. But it'd better be - it costs twice as much..(and there have been LOTS of guys with VSPEC's who never saw three gallons without catastrophic failure..)

The Mach 427 is MASSIVELY underrated. It'll hang in truggy with %75 of the so-called "race" engine 21s out there - in most significant categories. Though illegal, put it in a buggy and it'll hang speed-wise with even more..

thechap76

My Feedback: (26)

the only difference in most of the so called "cheap" engines and the "good" engines is application...look fellas this is a simple comparison supertib you nailed it ....a 454 chevy in a 1ton truck will or should pull or haul whatever you would like it too.....a toyota corolla should get you from point a to point b and get good fuel economy in the process...i dont race for trophys i race my buddies but sum of my buddies do race for trophys now im not braggin but i have a lrp in a 1/10 scale truc that tears ALL of my buddies trucks up....my point is to go racing a ferrari will and should win but to go fast well hell they can all go fast...and how long willl they last...well that
has sooooooo many factors that change with each one of us...fuel break in temps where we live....

supertib

A Mach will never get 10 minutes runtimes in the conditions we race under ! 8 minutes tops ! if your lucky...up here many race .21's struggle to reach 10 minutes.... its not underrated dude, its a RTR engine........I have modified and run dozens of them...decent mill but by no means does it compare to something like a Picco,V-Spec, B5 in any way shape or form....yes its cheap, but it should be cheap, its a Taiwanese RTR engine nothing more...........Maybe its one of the best Taiwanese RTR engines but by no means does it compare to a true race engine in any way shape or form....it doesn't tune as good, it doesn't run as good, it doesn't rev as high, it doesn't last as long....You get exactly what your paying for when you buy one................

supertib

here is a video of one of my modified Mach 427's..... engine always ran pretty good...but with the bumped up power didn't last overlly long till it wore out...8 minutes tops on our tracks

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/2834081/..._von_team_losi

here is a mod Werk's B5....now going strong at 8 gallons...14 minute runtimes

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4i3lE3N4n0

absolutely no contest in engines...the Werk's flat out smokes the Mach in every way conceivable....

bigdogkanicsar

gallons vs. hours .
i run my engines by how many hours i can get out of it.

why?
i have an associated MGT w.21( AE engine that came with it ) that i modded and has more than enough power to pull wheelies and yet i get almost 25min of run time.
i doubt it will ever see 10 or even 8 gallons.
i have a ofna ultra mbx w/axial .28 2s and it gets about 15 min of run time and it WILL see at least 8 gallons no doubt.
because of the varying engines and the different run times out there, it would just be foolish to rate an engines life by the gallons of fuel it uses.
not tryin to flame anyone but it just seems to me that it's common sense.
if one engine gets 10min of run time,and one engine gets 20 min of runtime.
by the time the 10min engine hits 10 gallons, the 20 min engine is only at 5 gallons.
it really is simple math

HerrSavage

Where I run - against RB's, Novas, whatever you want, if I lose a race, it is NOT down to engine power or tuneability - but to my setup(suspension, diffs, tires, whatever..).. Powerwise down the back straight I'm with all of them more or less. OK, maybe not an RB C6.. - but yeah, they cost three times as much.. Furthermore, the VSPEC's are coming in at eight minutes, and I can EASILY come in at ten. I tank twice in 30 minutes, and they three times. Not making it up..

I don't doubt that some of these higher end race engines are better. I DO however doubt that they are as better as their prices are higher.

Without a whiff of a doubt too, there is a lot of image/brand-name showing off going on too. "Oh, I have a Novarossi..." It's like having a normal blue sweatshirt but with a Polo horse on it for twice the price.. And feeling like you look better just because you paid more - for the little horsey..

It's navie to think that more expensive = better these days. Now more than ever. Buying a big-money engine will NOT win you a race as much as setup, driving skill, etc.. It's just my opinion, but high-money engines are overrated for most club racers, but they get them anyway for name recognition/image... And meanwhile I can hang with most of them down the straight with my cheap old Mach that cost less than half what their fancy Italian cost. Just because you spent more doesn't mean your RC is better.

And again, under race conditions, nobody's getting 14 minutes. If you get 14, I'll show you 12 with my Mach. And NO, I'm not talking about that indoor race either..(was getting easy ten minutes there too..)

thechap76

My Feedback: (26)

race engines should not get the fuel times or the longetivity of a good rtr engine....such as the mach...they are just to totally different engines...for instance a nascar engine they "hope" will hold up for 500 miles...damn earnhardt jr...lol...any way but ur rtr box stock small block chevrolet should go 200,000...2 totally different engines...

supertib

I am done wasting my time trying to argue with you dude...I concede...SH builds the best engines in the world..Picco and all the other race engines are absolute junk and a total waste of money...we should all just buy SH engines and never look to anything else ever again ! nothing tunes as good as a SH, nothing holds a tune like a SH, nothing gets the mileage of a SH, nothing lasts like a SH, nothing makes power like a SH...no need for V-Specs, Picco's, Nova's, Sirio's, Werk's ever again ! Am I missing anything ?

supertib

You are 100% wrong there...race engines last much longer in actual driving hours then a sport engine, and they also get far better mileage....... Sport engines have nothing on a race engine other then being priced cheaper....thats all they have going for them...

supertib

Patrick part of the reason you get 10 minutes from your Mach is because your a rookie racer with less then 5 races under your belt...while the top drivers are making 30 laps in a race you are lucky to make 20 laps...your driving much slower and using far less throttle......Please show me a Mach 427 getting 10 minutes runtimes in any A-Main race...sorry bro, it aint happening.....

If you actually raced like we do here you would understand how narrow and naive your outlook on engines really is....

i see all kinds of rookies on the track getting huge runtimes.... But its not because their engines are some super engine, but because they are so new to the track they cannot apply any throttle and keep within the lines.... The faster a driver becomes on the track, the more fuel they will use...a Novice may get 10 minutes from Mach, but a top A-Main driver is going to struggle to hit 7 minutes....

I will say this tho...if your a novice/rookie racer you don't need anything better then a RTR grade Mach 427...However as your skills improve and you start running with the fast boys on the track you will quickly realize a RTR Mach is nowhere near a competitive engine ......

If a Mach 427 could actually do 10 minute pitstops running at a competitive pace I will eat my own shorts....

Patrick please post the race results where your Mach was able to pit 10 minutes..I want to compare your pace to the top drivers pace..... FYI the faster the driver is, the more laps they turn at a higher MPH and the more fuel they will use...any engine can get great runtimes if your putting around 1/4 stick...but it takes a real engine to make 10 minutes at a fast competitive pace....

And yes my Mod B5 can make 14 minutes easy in a race condition on a big track.... Got the trophy pics to prove it !

HerrSavage

Ha ha.. "I'm a rookie", bla bla...

I'm not trying to sell anything either..

No doubt your engines are awesome, but it's pretty pathetic the way you scour the internet looking for every opportunity to badmouth any engine you don't happen to be selling.

supertib

thats not quite true

I speak the truth about all of the engines...I am one of the few with enough experience and knowledge to offer real, truthful and accurate information about engines....There are too many guys like you who offer terrible, biased and inaccurate information and I sometimes feel the need to step in before the dung pile gets too deep...

HerrSavage

OsiViper

My Feedback: (1)

Ty for the replies. it seems to have turned into a debate on which engine manufacturer is better tho Lol
Still undecided between Nitro/Electric tho lol.

Ilike the smoke and noise of nitro and not having to carry batteries but there is times electric would be good because of more power and no noise if im driving in neighborhood.

HerrSavage

Edit: Oh blah....

geeter

My Feedback: (110)

ask yourself again ,how long li-po batterys last. even if treated right. i'll take gas or nitro anyday.........RON

kochj

One should consider a engine in this order:

1. Reliability, relibality, reliability....ohh did I miss one...Reliability....
2.What you want out of the engine....
3. Price

IMHE....
I have had RTR's and RB C6, OS ect)

I Would say that you can always Re-size the sleeve...seems to work well...
In the end, you usually get what you pay for....

Pay more, you get Reliability, power, Fuel milage, and Longevity....

Sure there have been FEW flops....that cost lots, and give you headaches....


I have a C6 with a extra set of pistion/con-rod/sleve NIB......
that I will place in my buggy when my other Black magic gives up....

Keep your filter clean and dry.....Don't suck up dirt.
Dust particles that make it through a dirty or WET filter, messes things up....big time...

kochj

Anyone try that NEW FUel from Byron Originals?????

Should be the Bomb....
No After run oils Needed..???????

bigdogkanicsar

i hear ya,
nitro takes a lot of maintenance and patience, it is an awful lot of fun for the techy kind of person.
i like to tinker and love the sweet smell of nitro, but i like the ease of electric too, although i don't have any right now.
i like the sound of nitro, but if i have a headache and lookin for some peacful running, electric is a blast.
with the brushless systems they have now the speeds are plain silly and brushless has twice the torque of nitro.

i'm probably not helping your decision at all.

they both can cost equally as much in the end.
nitro= buying fuel all the time (byrons 20%)
electric=charging batteries all the time( resulting in a higher electricity bill )
faster=spending more cash for broken parts

i guess it's all in what you really want.

everything wears out eventually