KLXMASTER14

Hook,
I have had the wing on just long enough to stand back and say "Wow- Instant airplane!" I have not yet checked the alignment. The holes lined up well, and I did not notice any interference when I wiggled the ailerons by hand. Once everything is squared up, I will do the Saran wrap and silicone trick to the saddle.
-Robert

energyman

My Feedback: (2)

Sorry for the late reply. I installed the DuBro tank in the normal position with the stopper in the top. I also drilled two fuel line holes above the motor mount. The remote needle is being used as the engine was shipped. I did have to ground out some of the fiberglass to clear.

Energyman.

hook57

My Feedback: (21)

Thanks Robert, it must have benn limited to so many kits then. The "old" Saran wrap works great, I did the same, otherwise you'll see/have oil seep in at the aft belly pan area.
Mark

KLXMASTER14

Since it may be a while before I see my new Spring-Airs, I am going to set up the fixed gear for now. I will retrofit the retracts later.

Steering-
Due to the tank now sitting right in front of the forward wing mount, I can't run the steering cables straight down the middle per the instructions. So I took a nylon tube (like a nyrod tube) and formed it by heating it with a heat gun, bending the tube, and letting it cool into it's new shape. After some trial and error, I was able to shape the tube to route around the side of the tank. then snake over and exit pointing toward the nose gear. This was glasses to the side of the fuselage using some 4 oz glass and epoxy. The steering cables are hooked up and I have nose steering.

This steering set up should work for the retract nosewheel as well.

Don't forget to drill a drain hole under the nose just forward of the firewall. Seal the edges with epoxy.

gade600sdi

I took my stock tank out 17oz, and replaced it with a Dubro 14 oz tank. The 16 would have gone with some grinding and effort, but the 14 slid right in and with a twist it sits nicely in the formers in the front, right up against the firewall. I put it in with the tang or tab to the top and the stopper to the bottom. The stopper hole lines right up with the original hole, so no need to drill new holes in the firewall this way. 14 ounces is plenty for me, thats 82% of the big tank that was in there. I traced with a marker where the old tank was on the side of the fuselage and placed the new tank over that tracing and I estimate approximately overall the fuel load is approximately 50% lower. As posted above, there is 1/2" difference in the centerlines of the tanks, but that is only part of the picture. The stock tank is not installed in a centerline, it is at an angle, with the large percentage of the fuel above the tank centerline on the stock tank, so the difference is greater than 1/2". I am confident that it is not too high at this point.

KLXMASTER14

The Phoenix is finished. I don't have a weight yet. It is lighter than my Vertigo (8lb 4oz), I estimate sub 8 lbs. It took 2 oz in the tail to balance to the book C.G. specification.

There was nothing remarkable about the balance of the assembly. The fixed gear was installed (still waiting for the Spring-Airs) per the book. One of the main gear mounts was not drilled all of the way through, or tapped, so I simply drilled and tapped it for a 6-32 set screw.I found the book specification for the aileron throw to be excessive by my estimation, so I set the high rate to the low rate spec. We will see how that pans out tomorrow.
I used a Du-Bro switch mount for the switch, and will install an Ernst mount for the charge jack later on. All of the control linkages are what was supplied by H-9.

The Dave Brown Pipe mount was installed at the location specified in the instruction book. I used an extra long header VS the recommended long header. This worked out great, as I am running a 10cc Quiet pipe instead of the 8.5cc pipe recommended by H-9. The 10cc pipe is longer than the 8.5, and the extra length compensates for the extra long header.

My overall impression regarding the assembly of the H-9 Phoenix 7 ARF is that H-9 deserves a great round of applause for not only rolling the dice that something like this would sell well enough to warrant the investment to produce, but that they did a very good job at engineering and execution of a classic design, for a very reasonable price. I hope that they consider doing more resurrections of other classic designs.

Then there is the family picture. The P-7 is pictured with it's cousin the Vertigo II. The Vertigo II is a spin-off of the Phoenix 6/7.

KLXMASTER14

FLIGHT REPORT

I put ten flights on the P-7 today. The only reason that I quit is that I burned all of my fuel. I will skip a long detailed flight review, and summarize with if you do not score well in a contest with this airplane it is because you need more practice. That being said, here are a couple of highlights:

I forgot what a pleasure takeoffs, landings and driving on the ground are with a nosedragger. The supplied fixed gear works great, making for smooth takeoffs, as well as greased on landings, even when landing hot downwind deadstick landings. Speaking of the fixed gear, I cannot honestly say that the absence of retractable gear is a big bummer with this airframe. For those flying SPA, this is good news. Flame suit on.

Roll coupling I.E. knife edge is nil.

Rolls, point rolls, slow rolls, etc are easy to make look good.

Robert's recommendation: Set your aileron high rate at the instruction books low rate setting. Use a throw meter graduated in degrees. Set your mid and low rate at 85% and 70%, then adjust to your personal taste based upon flight tests. Set up the elevator and rudder per the book specifications.

It just looks awesome in the air.

Huge gratitude to Hangar 9 for bringing this airplane to the market. Thanks guys.

I am going back out tomorrow. After all, it is Father's day, and I can do as I please. Happy Father's day to you all.

-Robert

gade600sdi

I flew mine yesterday too. Removed the 17 oz tank and replaced with a Dubro 14 ounce tank. Put the "tang" nor tab on the top and the stopper on the bottom. The stopper lines up perfectly with the existing hole in the firewall, so there is no need to drill more firewal holes. The 14 ounce Dubro fits perfect and almost snugs itself up. I guess you can stuff a 16 in there, but I didnt have to grind any wood to put the 14 in, it fits perfect. I was flying 8 minute flights and I had almost half a tank left. This runs perfect now. I am using fixed gear and the plane flys awesome. Well worth the money.

KLXMASTER14

Seven more flights today. Total of 17 flights. Big smile here.

Note- Rudder hinges pulled loose on the last flight. Keep an eye on them. This is good general advice for any airplane, I suppose.

For anyone interested, the Magnum .61 with a pipe is turning 14,220 RPM on 15% nitro and an 11-7 APC prop!

KLXMASTER14

Hey P-7 jockeys!
Does your P-7 carry some up elevator trim? Mine sure did. And so did every other P-7 that I have seen up close. Hmmm, there must be something to this.

So a couple of weeks ago, I loosened up the rear wing screws, inserted a couple of wooden "Popsicle" sticks between the wing TE and the saddle, then tightened up the screws. Totally unscientific, just kind of winging it so to speak.

I set the elevators to a neutral position using the trim, and took off. All I can say is WOW. Night and day difference. I asked Tony F to fly it, and he also concurred that it was a major improvement. After flying Tony's now deceased Phoenix, and noting how much betterthat his flew compared to mine, he graciously worked with me to dial it in. And while we got it close, there was that elusive "something" that was still not right. It looks like we found it.

When I returned home, I aligned the ailerons and elevators using to the airfoil using my calibrated MK 2 eyeballs, and took measurements with the Robart incidence meter. (Note- never trust the tips! Especially on an ARF). The resulting measurements showed that with the shims, that aircraft now has a +.25 degree wing incidence (or decalage) relative to the stabilizer. This is right about where it should be. Without the shims, the incidence was -.1 degrees.

Any negative incidence will cause weird trim issues. No amount of negative incidence is good- ever. You need a little bit of positive incidence, or the airplane will tend to "hunt" in pitch. The Zero-Zero setup is a myth. Joe Bridi got it right. Look at the plans for the Dirty Birdy, etc, there it is- positive incidence. The classics need some positive pitch stability to really fly right.

So take a look at your P-7. If it is carrying some up trim, give the shims a try. BTW, the shims that I used (and have since made permanent) are .080" thick.

Hope this all helps someone.
-Robert

dhal22

Nice experiment.

Winged Fox

I noticed mine was hunting in pitch or at least always out of trim. I will try this on mine. (.080 thk) Cool! Thanks Robert.

KLXMASTER14

Yes, this mod rid my airplane of that pitch trim change that we have been chasing. It should do the same for yours.

Mine would also pitch to the canopy on uplines. Adding the downthrust that Tony recommended cured the majority of that tendency.
Shimming the wing effectively added more down thrust, and the pitch to the canopy is now completely gone. Check your upline tracking next time out. It will be important as you learn the advanced maneuvers.

-Robert

AMA 74894

My Feedback: (1)

you've gotta love it when a three year old thread uncovers an issue that you're troubleshooting! I ran into exactly this same head scratching at the very end of the season last year,
it's been in the back of my mind all winter
I'll be checking my P-7's wing incidence before the nice weather hits here (which should be sometime in Late August according to the thermometer today )

Many thanks Robert and Tony!

rv7driver

My Feedback: (105)

Glad I read this thread again, have the same problem with my p7 will make changes, been fighting the pitch trim for 3 years. Thanks Robert. Pete

scottrc

This has been a good thread for me since I am planning on starting my P7 ARF soon.

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

I have just finished an assembly thread on my new H-9 P-7. I did a lot of modifying and updating that has worked out very well. It is in RCGroups in the Classic pattern forum. Hope it helps!

scottrc

Yes Tony, am well aware of your work over on RCG

KLXMASTER14

In all types of pattern flying, there are two key elements- aircraft set up and consistent flying. Go check out Tony's thread. I have seen this airplane in person and it sets a benchmark for classic pattern set up. One thing that I have learned over the past year is that I didn't know as much as I thought I did. When you have a true master paying it forward, take advantage of the opportunity and learn everything you can. The difference between a well set up airplane is like the difference between skittles and lobster for dinner.

-Robert

Edit- I have flow Tony's airplane and I can verify that this setup is worth the effort. It is the best tracking and easiest handling classic that I have flown to date. It is so easy to make it look good when you are not wasting effort fighting the aircraft!

scottrc

I just started mine and plan on using the tips in this thread and Tony's. Sounds like I'm going to have a great flying plane. I do not plan to use retracts but will plan on a pipe added to the .65AX.
Scott

KLXMASTER14

Scott, I'm sure that you will find this combo of aircraft and engine to be a winner. Enjoy!
-Robert

KLXMASTER14

With 22 hours of accumulated flight time, the old bird needed something to freshen her up. So I bought a new OS .65 AX for the P-7. I put the piston and liner from the crashed Vertigo II (6 hours time) into the new block and - Presto! Instant hot engine transplant. No break in required! The outgoing engine, a Magnum .61 XLS is still pulling strong, and will find it's way into the new Super Kaos 60 that I recently acquired. The .65 is happily turning an 11 x 8 APC at 14,160 RPM burning Cool Power 15 %. I was all set to fly her this morning, but I was blown out. Doggone Santa Ana winds! OK, next weekend we will give it a go.

-Robert

TonyF

My Feedback: (92)

Sweet! Looking forward to seeing it go!

KLXMASTER14

Update- The OS .65 AX did not disappoint. The 11/8 just wasn't enough load for the engine, so I changed it out for an 11 x 9 APC. 13,800 RPM with 15% Cool Power. This thing is strong. I have thrust to weight better than 1:1. This engine is an excellent bang for the buck.

I had to remove the 1 oz of tail weight and move the battery from under (over?) the servos to over the fuel tank to bring the CG back in line. So that is about a 3 oz weight savings. More power plus less weight. Money well spent.

-Robert

scottrc

Great to hear the results of the .65AX. I am planning the start breaking mine in over the next week on the test stand and should have it ready when the plane is done. 15% Cool power is the fuel I use as well.

Scott