doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

I've been interested in building a wood fuselage for the Tiporare and while working on the concept, I figured smaller versions of this aircraft would be really cool - a la Curare. I'm not aware of anyone who has built a "small" Tipo. So, with the kind offers for the original RCMB 1980 Tipo plans from ppljr and petec, I went ahead and scaled the plans as follows:

Tiporare 10 61% (Picorare): span = 40", length = 34", engine = .15-.21, expected weight = 2.4-3.0 lbs.
Tiporare 20 74% (Nanorare): span = 48", length = 40.5", engine = .25-.32, expected weight = 3.5-4.5 lbs.
Tiporare 40 86% (Mirare): span = 56", length = 47.5", engine = .40-.45, expected weight = 5.5-6.5 lbs.
Tiporare 60 100%: span = 65", length = 55", engine = .60-.65, weight = 7.5-8.5 lbs.

Although I think I got these scalings about right, I don't vouch for them - please be advised. Also note that all the wood part thicknesses will have to be substituted for lighter and thinner pieces as appropriate for the scale in question. Things like spinners and wheels should scale quite closely in decreasing 1/4" steps from the 2-1/4" of the original 60 size. A 10 size Tipo could easily be built without gear or with mechanical retracts from Robart, Great Planes or Hobbico. The frame-up of the fuselage appears to be a nicely simplified version of the Curare structure and shouldn't be very difficult to build (nose area & fin look like the most elaborate sections).

I'd like to thank ppljr and petec for providing me with a copy of the plans as well as Dick Hanson for his design and Bill Northrop for the original article and plans. Please note that Dick and Bill don't necessarily stand behind these modifications or consider the idea of reduced scale Tipo's a good one.

The dimensions in the file name refer to the print sheet size in inches.

If you build a "little Tipo", do let us know!

Cheers, David.

Tipo 10 & 20 (40 & 60 to follow):

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Eeww...!

That didn't work very well... and PDF and ZIP files are not supported for upload.

So... if interested, please post on the thread or send me a PM. The 4 plans fit in a 11 MB zip file.

David.

T Brooks

Hello doxilia

Have you tried one of the file sharing sites like 4shared.

e.g. http://www.4shared.com/file/34201840...e_low_res.html

Otherwise send it to me and I will load it up there. [email protected]

Cheers
T

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

TBrooks,

Sure,

I have an account but the only issue is that there are a series of files and I'm not sure how to link them individually for download.

T Brooks

Hello doxilia

I would just provide a link to each scale size file. Once you have up loaded each file you can view them like you would in windows explorer. If you click on a file then it will take you to a properties kind of page. Within that page will be the link you can copy and paste into your post on RCU.

or you could zip them all together and post a link for that one file.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
T

Free Bird

PM sent!

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

TBrooks,

Got it, thanks. Here goes...

David.

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Guys,

The zip file contains the 4 plans in appropriate dimensions in JPG format - useful for screen viewing or making any markings say in Photoshop. However, don't make any scale modifications to these. The other 4 links are the respective plans, again full scale, in PDF format - these are the ones to take to Kinko's (or the like). Note that if you want to make any scale tweaks, I recommend using the full size 60 original plan. Illustrator works best for this. A couple of other notes:

The centerline of the fuse on the top view is now parallel with the horizontal (along with the wheel base). The original scan had the plan slightly twisted so things were just a a little skewed (just a matter of pinning your plan slightly off square I suppose - not anymore). Note also that the datum line (tuck line) coincides with the 0 deg stab line and is also level.

If you don't run a pipe under the wing it is important to decrease the anhedral angle on the stab. This would apply for a side mounted pipe and/or a pipeless/electric version. Details are covered in the original RCMB article.

The unit scales shown on the plans are approximate. Plans were scaled to 2 decimal places in order to arrive at the desired wingspan.

Here are the links:

http://www.4shared.com/file/58339241...caled_JPG.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/58339397...n_-_40x24.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/58339523..._-_44x28.htmll

http://www.4shared.com/file/58339609...n_-_52x32.html

http://www.4shared.com/file/58339704...n_-_60x36.html

Enjoy!

Can't wait to start building one of them (I think I might start with a 20 size).

T Brooks

Cheers, got em.

Don't forget to log in at least every 30 days so they don't get removed from your acount. It is quite cool to see how many times your files are downloaded.

T

Roguedog

Way Kool doxilla! Thanks for sharing.

I have a 300dpi tif of this plan and was trying to figure out the thickness of the wings, stab, and fin. Couldn't figure it out until downloaded your 60 sized plan and realized that the plan was drawn on 1" graph paper. Totally missed that until now.

The thickness of the root stab is about 1" thick. I included a pic, and outlined a 1" square in red. Oh yea, this is only for the original 60 sized plan. The 10 sized plan has 5/8" squares.

Bryan

roncoleman

My Feedback: (14)

Thanks for the plans and the rescale work. Now to find
a place where I can have them printed.

Ron

aerowoof

I have a tipi 40 kit with fiberglass fuse and foam wings produced in the mid 80's, will post the spec for comparison when I dig it out of the pile.

8178

My Feedback: (17)

David,

Thanks for your work on the Tiporare plans. I have the Great Planes plans but they lack most of the detail so these are great!

casniffer

My Feedback: (1)

Thanks for the plans, doxilia.
CAsniffer

dfturnock

Good work on scaling the Tiporare plans...

Flew one back in the day, so decided this would be a good one to add to our short kit collection.

Attached is a JPG showing the parts I plan on including in the short kit. This could change, but these parts are the plan. Small part count, but this is a job for a good planer and sander...

Foam Wing and Stab will also be available separately or as a combo.

If there is interest, I will also do the smaller sizes. Just ask...

I will have pricing up on the EAC site within a couple of days.

The Curare and Atlas short kits are about ready, also...

"Pattern Flyers Do It With Precision"

Don
www.eurekaaircraft.com

hrrcflyer

Doxilla,

Thanks for the plans. I really appreciate you taking the time and sharing them with us!!!

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Don,

this is simply brilliant! Please let us know when the short kit is available.

As for the smaller ones, in one word, I'm asking... If you are able to produce short kits for all 4 scales, you have your first quartet customer right here. Little Tipo's might be all the rage! I was about to order foam cores for all 4 scales and start with the smaller ones as these are the lesser known scales. Although I think a Tipo 40 (Mirare) will be great, it might be somewhat less exotic given the existence of the Curare 40 (Minare) - whom pattern aficionados are familiar with.

I'm cleaning out my workshop of a couple of almost finished projects to make room for the Tipo brotherhood . I would much appreciate it if you could send me a PM to let me know of the possibility and time frame of having short kits for all 4 scales (as well as the prices).

Before signing off, I noticed that the 10 size and 20 size versions have extremely narrow fuselages (at this scale) making it somewhat tricky to convert these models to electric power. Prop diameter is another issue with electric trikes but is something that can be managed by spinning smaller props at high rpm's (long live ballistic pattern!). At power outputs of about 300W and 500W respectively (about 125 W/lb) for the 10 (40 oz) and 20 (64 oz) size, the motors would barely fit within the width of the fuselage. Having said that, it might be worth considering slightly increasing the width of the 2 formers and the FW to accomodate internally mounted engines/motors (a la Steve Helms on his Tipo - inverted mount, internal pipe Magic style). This would also help to taper to appropriate diameters (at the moment they are just shy of desired OD's) at the nose ring for standard spinners - 1-1/2" (38mm) for the 10 size and 1-3/4" (44.5mm) for the 20 size. Don, I don't know if this is something you might want to look into for the short kits.

Many thanks, David.

P.S. I'm glad the plans are being well received!

mmattockx

Don,

That is excellent news. I have the Tipo plans and had been looking for wing and stab cores. When you get the info on your site, can you include a Canada shipping option? Also, will you be working out a built up wing or strictly the foam cores? I like the foam better (I seem to be able to build straighter that way), but the shipping has gotten stupid for cores, unfortunately.

Thanks,
Mark

Free Bird

Don,

Excellent! Keep up the good work! You're quickly becoming the premire site for the classics!

FB

Steve25

David,

Here you go into error ! The fuse of the Curare 20 is not so small. Making it so small could create to much stress on the fuse.
When I can get back onto my .20 , I will measure it. If I remember well, I think two servo's would fit beside eachother, so, I guess the scaling from the fuse is not to scale.

Can you read psd files ?

Steven ( the one you emailed with )

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Hey Steve,

Hope your trip is going well. It'd be great to see some more pics and the specs on the Curare 20 as well as the 40! Also, was the MK 20 designed for retracts? Does yours have them? Which ones?

With the Tipo, the unknown is with respect to how stable and predictable the smaller versions (10 and 20) will turn out to be. Although the original Tipo was a great flyer, later versions flown by top pilots had increased wing area which leads me to believe that it improved the stability and tracking.

The plans are scaled uniformly to reach a desired wing span. There is no deviation in fuse width with respect to the 60 size at a given scale. However, after reviewing the 10 and 20 size plans, I tend to agree that the width could be increased slightly (10-20% max) and deviate from true scale (see post above in reply to Don). This would also aid in arriving at a desired nose ring diameter to fit standard spinner sizes as well as allow installation of ideal size electric motors and inverted mounted engines.

After a little thought and planning, I estimate that the 10 and 20 size Tipo's could be built, with minor modifications, to 40 and 64 oz (1134 and 1814 g) respectively including retracts. Of course the AUW will largely depend on the power plant chosen. For the smaller ones, my interest is in finding the ideal electric power plant while retaining the classic piped 40-45 and 60-65 side mounted engine for the 40 and 60 size. I believe that a light 300W and 500W max output will fly the 10 and 20 sizes very nicely using 8" and 10" e-props, respectively. The electric plants will have to be high KV units spinning these smaller props at high RPM. Wheel diameter would also be increased slightly to 1.5" (38mm) for the 10 and 1.75" (44.5mm) for the 20 (equivalent to spinner cone size) compared to what's depicted on the plans. This brings the wheel base down flush to the bottom plan line.

I didn't find any problems fitting appropriate size servos size-by-side in the fuses. My preferred method though would be a center mounted P-P setup for the rudder with either a side mounted split rod servo for the elevator or dual mini servo's in the rear - the location will largely depend on CG (battery pack chosen as well as landing gear setup). It is possible that the CG offset caused by dual rear mounted mini servos for the elevators will be similar to the setup for a split rod single internal servo (light servos and carbon rods strike me as mandatory).

Finally, even though the plans emphatically say that a hatch is unnecessary, I think the bottom front of the fuse is ideally suited for a hatch to access radio and power plant gear.

I look forward to further news re the 20 Curare.

Cheers, David.

P.S. PSD files are not a problem.

hrrcflyer

Ron,

You should be ale to take the PDF file to any copy center like Kinko's that has a large format printer to copy them. Also if you know someone in the architecture or engineering design field that has a large format plotter, they should be able to plot it out for you too. Good luck and happy building!!

alcarafa

I couldnt find how much anhedral this plane needs on stab ? im building the 10 version and will use a MAGNUM 15 XLS-A .

Problem with 10 version fuse is width you cant use std servos unless they are one behind the others but thats lots of problems, im going to use four Hitec HS 55 servos, what should be the anhedral stab measure using std muffler, HOW MUCH DOWN ? degrees ? mm ? what should it be ?

Thanks for your help guys , im considering opening a building thread of this beautifull bird !!

Regards.
Rafa

petec

My Feedback: (58)

David,

Glad you got the plans and got the scaling done. I just downloaded the 40 size plans.

If you ever scale them up to 1.20 size I sure would like a set of those. It would be interesting to see how that would compare to in flight characteristics to say a Prophecy.

Pete

doxilia

My Feedback: (3)

Dang!

I hate it when that happens. I had just elaborated on some issues and accidentally hit enter - wham! post gone!

Rafa, I was in the process of making some comments re your 10 size build. Maybe I'll get back to it later. In any case, great news! Please, do start a build thread when you get started. In answer to your question, here's the gist of what I was on to:

Anhedral:

or "Cathedral" as was used by Dick Hanson. Here's a good question for designers. In fact it would be a good question for Dick and Dave Brown as they made many tests with the Tipo and anhedral angles. People flying the 60 size here might have some comments too (e.g., 8178). Hanno Prettner would also be a good person to ask . It'd be interesting to hear their thoughts on angles for the reduced scales.

Based on scaling and Dick's comments regarding angles, pipes and yaw effect, here are the dimensions:

Tipo 60:

under belly pipe: 4.25" (note that GP recommends 4-3/8" > 4-1/4" in their kit... probably for "coolness" effect)

side or no pipe: 2.00"

Tipo 40 (scaled):

under belly pipe: 3.66"

side or no pipe: 1.72"

Tipo 20 (scaled):

under belly pipe: 3.14"

side or no pipe: 1.48"

Tipo 10 (scaled):

under belly pipe : 2.62"

side or no pipe: 1.23"

I would think that anhedral of between 1.20" and 1.25" on the 10 would be OK for your muffled .15. In fact, what would be really cool is to make a couple of stabs with different angles, cutting them short and mounting them with a CF rod through the fuse allowing you to experiment with different angles. Better yet would be a "variable anhedral" stab with a flat section at the fuse side and 3 or 4 anhedral wedges placed, in turn, between the stab and the fuse . Needless to say, maybe this is getting a little fancy with a model of this size.

Watch out in the fin post area. An option would be to laminate 1/16" sheeting to make this span the thickness of the rudder prior to applying the fin sheeting. You would end up with a 5 layer laminate of 1/16" at the back of the fin (3/16" for the post and 2/16" for the sheeting). I think all you need is 1/16" between the fuse sides at the rear to arrive at a rudder thickness of 5/16" using 1/8" fuse sides. I would also build a hatch out of the fuse front bottom to facilitate access to the engine, retract and fuel (methanol or lithium ). 1/4" balsa is appropriate for the 10 for the 1/2" balsa areas on the 60. Note that, in general, for the 10 using wood of 1/2 the scale used in the 60 works out nicely.

'nough said. I had some other thoughts re radio installation but, alas, they've evaporated! [:@]

Keep us posted! David.