Crashnlearn

My Feedback: (1)

We have a disgruntled ex-club member that WAS eligible to return to the club until the rest of the members decided that this particular member would be more trouble than it was worth. He made a comment to me that if he didn't get back into the club he would start shooting people down. We had a 30% scale airplane go down on Monday. According to his neighbors the time frame that the airplane went down coincides with the times that the ex-club member left his house and then returned home. Obviously, this looks a little suspicious, given the statements made by the ex-club member. The pilot of the downed airplane was using a PCM system and we have been told that it is virtually impossible to be "shot down" when using PCM. I am just wondering how hard it would be to shoot someone down when sitting approximately 1/2 mile from the airfield.

khodges

My Feedback: (1)

Not hard at all. He only has to turn on a Tx, and whoever is unlucky enough to be on that channel is gonna get glitched. PCM is helpful for spurious rf interference, but it's no "bullet-proof vest" against what he's trying to do. What an incredible a**hole ! No wonder you won't let him back in the club. If you catch him in the act, I'd surely prosecute him, something like malicious damage to private property. Too bad it ain't a felony.

Gravityisnotmyfriend

My Feedback: (2)

I agree it'd be very easy to shoot a person down. He could even be farther than a 1/2 mile away. The only safegaurd PCM offers is a failsafe. This would just set the controls at a preset postion, but you'd still have no control over the plane. I hope you can catch this guy in the act because it would certainly be hard to prove. Man that really sucks. Good luck.

da Rock

So, where was he sitting? across the Yadkin on Donnaha?

He would have to be able to transmit on the channel being flown. If he has a synthesizer TX that wouldn't be too hard. You'd probably expect him to have a line of sight to be able to enjoy the deed. And at RAMS field, there wouldn't be too many places that vantage is available.

aaron2874

In Texas, this would probably constitute 'criminal mischief' which can be a state jail felony IF the amount of loss is more than $1500 but less than $20,000. Considering the cost of such planes, this is very possible. The problem is, you don't have enough to prove anything. It would probably take someone catching him in the act AND the equipment he used to do it would need to be confiscated as evidence (at the time of the offense) and tested to prove it could have caused the crash. Then the other circumstantial evidence would carry more weight and show a pattern of behavior leading up to the criminal act. Chances are he will be sly and stay out of sight. I'll tell you this though, if I were to ever witness someone intentionally shoot down anothers' plane, I would arrest them on the spot and confiscate the radio they did it with. Considering the cost of these planes, I wouldn't be writing a citation either. This would be a chauffer'ed trip downtown in the quiet luxury of a caged Chevy Impala. No doubt about it. It would of course have to clearly be an intentional criminal act and that may be hard to prove depending on the circumstances. I'm curious (of course) what is this guys problem with the club? No need for detail...

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

See if you can enlist the neighbors to help by calling a club member when he leaves the house during flying hours. Then scan the frequencies to see if anything unexpected shows up.

Crashnlearn

My Feedback: (1)

Drinking alcohol

Sonyt

darock, I'm sorry but you are wrong. There are places. You just have to know where they are at. Really this time of the year when the leaves are gone you can see alot more that you think and also from alot of places

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

The mere fact that he told you he'd start shooting people down tells me whatever reason he was kicked out of the club is probably justified. Legally proving he shot someone down is next to impossible unless the police catch him with the TX and extra crystals sitting in the front seat of his car near the field. Even then it would be hard to prove but you might be able to get a restraining order to keep him away from the field if you can get some type of proof.

As others said it would be easy to shoot someone down and PCM is no deterant what so ever. You could keep some binoculars handy and keep on the lookout for his car. I wouldn't try and enlist his nieghbors for spying on him because you might open yourself up to legal action.

Having said all of the above, one crashed plane does not prove he is shooting anyone down. It is way easier to say you got shot down than to figure out the true cause of a crash. Having seen more crashes that most of you ever will (because of the field I fly at) I have learned that it is human nature to assume it is someone else's fault when you don't really know why it crashed.

MishaParem

Are there any lawyers or cops reading this? I don't know the details but perhaps something to do with endangering nearby population, assault/abuse could be applied because there ARE people around, and an RC plane can certainly hurt if not kill a person...

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Maybe you should let him back in the club. It works both ways. Not that it's right but thats life.

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

Fits with local practices. They let drunk drivers back on the road around here, why not let drunk R/C pilots back at the field.

blw

My Feedback: (3)

Well, if he threatened to shoot down planes, and if it does become evident to reasonable people by observing his actions, then maybe a visit by Mr. Knuckle Sandwich would convince him of his sins. I know some people who would give him more than a face rearrangement. They would have that radio and a lot of his rc gear to cover their costs. I'm not saying that I would do that.........ahem.......

GrnBrt

My Feedback: (5)

California law where I was a cop a felony doesn't have to be commited in front of law enforcement for a person to be arrested. A misdeamenor (sp?) has to be commited in front of a cop for them to be arrested, exception to that would be someone else who has seen it happen willing to step forward and place the person under citizens arrest good luck with that one!

jettstarblue

Why not? Then every time he goes up you could "shoot him down".

Roby

One plane hits the ground and it's the x-members fault ?
It would seem that if this situation was reoccurring frequently
then you may have some issues, but not for ONE plane.

Certainly the statements made by the x-member would
bring suspicion focused on him but still the burden of proof
that he did such an act is on you. If you don't have hard facts
that he did such an act then it's all BS.

Only two things you can do.
1. Don't let him back in and take your chances hoping nothing
happens. Keeping in mind that you need actual proof that he's
doing the act of shooting you down.

2. Let him back in and then avoid him, (if you can) like the plague.

Good luck
Roby

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

This is a difficult situation to deal with indeed. If he is out to "get you" then it's going to be hard for you all to catch him at what he's doing. And it's not going to be easy to resolve it either. If you really think that he is doing this to you and your club you are indeed going to have to catch him in the act. There are two ideas to catch him that I can think of right off of my head. First of which is to hire a Private Investigator to tail him and catch him in the act of shooting you down, or alternatively have somebody in your club to the tailing. Get some pictures of him in the act and then you'll have the evidence you need to get him. The second idea is little more involved but could still be done. Have somebody in your club "go undercover". Have somebody in your club play the role of somebody that just got kicked out of the club for the same reasons as the guy you're trying to catch. Then he could call the target and start asking how they can get even with the club. Hopefully your undercover can convince the target that he wants to help get even so that you can once again catch him in the act.

While both of these ideas may seem a bit extreme, it's going to take some extreme measures to catch somebody like this.

Good luck catching him

Ken

badger5964

My Feedback: (6)

Here's a thought. This guys anger is probably focused on one or two individuals. Since he was a club member you probably know what frequencies he has. Quiz the hobby shops in area for somebody purchasing a transmitter crystal. If your LHS is like mine they know most of the fliers.

With this bait him. Stir the pot but do not accuse him of shooting down a flier. Set up the individual that is the focus of the anger to fly but switch frequency by using another radio. The angry individual will likely know the flier’s frequency. Then set up an ambush by baiting and planning a shoot down time. Perhaps purchase one of those frequency checkers, then you could look for a shoot down by looking for appropriate frequency. If detected you may be able to catch him or intercept when he returns home.

Assuming this works you would have the evidence.

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

The last two posters have been watching to many cop shows on TV.

jongurley

My Feedback: (29)

Yep, but that is a plan that might work,,,

daveopam

My Feedback: (9)

bad boys bad boys watcha gonna do........watcha gonna do when they come for you.

In all seriousness. A freq scanner would be a good start. If he shoots down a plane on the only active channel it could be tough to catch. If there is a sudden unexplained crash have the pilot turn off his TX right away. So if there is activity on that same channel you can catch it.

David

onewasp

Answering your question, it is EXTREMELY easy to accomplish!

The ANSWER to your question is simple-----intentional RFI is a Federal offense and you should contact the FCC. They tend to be very DIRECT and forceful when they are convinced of the problem. (not easy)

The presentation of verifiable FACTS is up to you-----simple 'here-say' won't cut it. Names, addresses, dates, circumstances, losses incurred, etc.

A call to your radio Mfgr. will probably garner their help too

Since it sounds as if this is simply a threat at this point why don't you get a copy of the FCC regs. covering intentional RFI and send it to him. He might decide that retreat is the best course of action. (though so far he doesn't sound too 'swift').
I believe it is covered In Part 15 ------- DON'T send all of Part 15 (that's a cure for insomnia) simply the section(s) on intentional RFI. For the full story there are probably several FCC documents involved but they (the FCC representative) can tell you which ones and how to secure copies.

Roby

I guess it's been established that it's rather easy
to shoot someone down and it will take a large effort
by many to catch the culprit. That is of course if he
ever existed in the first place.

I refer back to post 16. Do you let him back in ?
It's a simple yes or no.

BasinBum, your correct, way too much TV.

Now for the comical side..............perhaps this x-member
is reading all these threads and is now aware of the
secret plans to catch him. Nice going guys !!!!

Roby

BasinBum

My Feedback: (2)

Where did you get that idea? They are way to busy with things like censorship to bother with people playing with model airplanes. I have seen people broadcasting on the HAM bands without a liscense who were turned in and it took months for any action to be taken and that action wasn't even very effective.

macdona

My Feedback: (3)

After reading everything said about the shoot down, here is my take. In 1994 at Madera my T-6 was intensionly shot down. The culprit was found and placed under citizen arrest. I will never do that again. Two years of driving to Madera and four thousand dollars later he got off.
Instead I will cheerfully beat the crap out of him, but make sure you have a lot of witness's who will swear you were not any where around at the time. And forget about AMA helping out. It didn't happen. And forget FCC, they have no interest in big boys and their toys. Been there, done that. Mac