Lightning Build
02-18-2011, 05:40 PM
#76
My Feedback: (45)
RE: Lightning Build
ORIGINAL: RC_Pattern_Flyer
Take your time remembering unless you are going to fly FAI
Jeff,
I remember the masters finals a few years ago, it wont take you long to return to that form!
Hope to see you are the field,
Chuck
Take your time remembering unless you are going to fly FAI
Jeff,
I remember the masters finals a few years ago, it wont take you long to return to that form!
Hope to see you are the field,
Chuck
I flew against Jeff last fall at Winston Salem. He isn't that far off. I don't think it'll take long. I'm looking forward to flying with Jeff and George Asteris this year. We are going to have some fun,
Arch
02-18-2011, 06:37 PM
#77
RE: Lightning Build
Wow, D6 has represented well in Masters over the last few years. Sorry to see Jeff then Arch move to different districts...naaaaa no I'm not.
Just when I felt like I'm getting old I see George Asteris (Iron Man) still competing at the top. George is pure inspiration.
Jeff, great build on Lightning #2, having seen #1 up close I truly appreciate your efforts, much applause to you.
Just when I felt like I'm getting old I see George Asteris (Iron Man) still competing at the top. George is pure inspiration.
Jeff, great build on Lightning #2, having seen #1 up close I truly appreciate your efforts, much applause to you.
02-19-2011, 07:47 PM
#78
RE: Lightning Build
Glen
Happy to hear that Arch and I are missed out in D6, although you never know when we will be back. I don't know where my next assignment will be, and Arch, he will drive to Alaska for a one day pattern primer, so Texas isn't a stretch.
Happy to hear that Arch and I are missed out in D6, although you never know when we will be back. I don't know where my next assignment will be, and Arch, he will drive to Alaska for a one day pattern primer, so Texas isn't a stretch.
02-19-2011, 08:00 PM
#79
RE: Lightning Build
I glue the wing and stab sockets in with Gorilla glue. The sockets are glued in with the wing tube installed and the cores in the shucks. This will ensure the sockets stay round and to make sure the dihedral is set correctly (the sockets have a little play in the foam. I cap the socket ends so I don't end up with the wing tube as a permanent part of the wing.
02-20-2011, 03:09 PM
#80
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RE: Lightning Build
ORIGINAL: rcpattern
Chuck,
I flew against Jeff last fall at Winston Salem. He isn't that far off. I don't think it'll take long. I'm looking forward to flying with Jeff and George Asteris this year. We are going to have some fun,
Arch
ORIGINAL: RC_Pattern_Flyer
Take your time remembering unless you are going to fly FAI
Jeff,
I remember the masters finals a few years ago, it wont take you long to return to that form!
Hope to see you are the field,
Chuck
Take your time remembering unless you are going to fly FAI
Jeff,
I remember the masters finals a few years ago, it wont take you long to return to that form!
Hope to see you are the field,
Chuck
I flew against Jeff last fall at Winston Salem. He isn't that far off. I don't think it'll take long. I'm looking forward to flying with Jeff and George Asteris this year. We are going to have some fun,
Arch
Went out today with Jeff to practice and he's in the 95 percentile already. It's going to be fun watching you guys duke it out this year.
Jeff figured out the throttle problem I was having with my Sickle today which helped me tremendously. It now feels linear instead of Binary.
Tim
02-20-2011, 04:31 PM
#82
RE: Lightning Build
Now I need one large sheet of balsa to sheet the wings with. I use blue painter's tape to hold the sheets together, open them like a hinge, apply glue, and then tape the top. Now, the real secret to wing sheeting is using the correct glue to hold the sheets together. I have tried many different glues which never quite turn out right, so with my last build I went old school and tried Ambroid. It worked great. It sands very well and doesn't get super hard. The only down side is the STRONG fumes. It can be tough to find as well, but I have a supplier out on the West Coast, right Dad?
The second key to wings skins is to sand them to near perfection prior to putting them on the cores. This makes sanding the seams much easier and much more effective.
I tried something new this time and glued my carbon reinforcement to the wing skins prior to gluing them to the core. I like the bond I get using CA with carbon, so I wanted to take advantage of that. I did make precise marks for the location of the cores on the sheeting to ensure the carbon is in the right spot.
The second key to wings skins is to sand them to near perfection prior to putting them on the cores. This makes sanding the seams much easier and much more effective.
I tried something new this time and glued my carbon reinforcement to the wing skins prior to gluing them to the core. I like the bond I get using CA with carbon, so I wanted to take advantage of that. I did make precise marks for the location of the cores on the sheeting to ensure the carbon is in the right spot.
02-20-2011, 09:28 PM
#83
My Feedback: (34)
RE: Lightning Build
Ambroid is one of the only glues that won't harden the surrounding balsa which is why it makes sanding the seams so nice. The big problem with Ambroid IMO is the wait time and the fact that you really need to be sure your sheets for the skins are edged well so you get a good bond.
I have yet to find a better glue for making skins, but it's hard to be patient with it sometimes.
I have yet to find a better glue for making skins, but it's hard to be patient with it sometimes.
02-25-2011, 03:17 PM
#84
RE: Lightning Build
I use Gorilla Glue to sheet the wings and stab. I apply the glue to the sheeting and then use a foam roller to spread the glue out as well as soaking up any extra. I align the sheeting on the cores and the cores lined up with the shucks. Then I use weights to hold the whole thing down until it cures. Once everything is dry, I pull the weights off, but I leave the wings in the shucks. I sand the extra sheeting off using the shucks as a guide. Once all of the edges are trimmed, pull the wings and stabs out of the shucks, and presto, you have flying surfaces.
02-27-2011, 06:28 AM
#85
RE: Lightning Build
The wings and stab are now sheeted with the leading and trailing edges trimmed and sanded. The next step is to install the wing tube socket in the fuselage. Alignment of every part that goes into a pattern plane is fairly critical, but this is arguably the single most critical joint in the build.
I start by ensuring my line-up table is level and flat. I have adjustable feet on all of the legs to get everything flat. I use a combination of my digital level, straight edge, and thread strung across the top of the surface to ensure accuracy.
I made all of the holes in the fuselage for the wing and stab sockets prior to mounting the fuselage to the table. I made hole on one side slightly oversize to allow adjustment without having to take the fuselage out of the jig every time.
Next, the fuselage is mounted to the table and is adjusted to zero pitch and the fin perpendicular to the building surface. I used the firewall jig station that was used in the construction of the fuselage to anchor the front end of the fuselage. I used two jig stations, turned 90 degrees, as clamps to hold the aft end of the fuselage.
The wing socket along with the lightply doughnuts are installed in the fuselage. The wing tube and the wings are installed. 1/2" balsa spacers are used between the wing roots and the fuselage sides to allow for the socket that extends out of the wing root. The wings are set in jigs to hold everything in place.
Measurements are first taken to set the wings at zero degrees incidence, then set the wingtips equal distance from the surface, and then from each wingtip to the tail and the nose. I use T-pins, set with CA to mark all of my measurement reference points. I have used a steel cable with an adjustable pointer to check the wing to tail measurement in the past, but for this build I upgraded the cable to a carbon rod. I used both, and the results where the same between the two.
Once everything was set I carefully applied Hysol to glue in the sockets and the doughnuts, making certain no glue gets onto the wing tube. Once all the glue is on, I recheck all measurements, and then kick back and wait for the glue to cure.
I start by ensuring my line-up table is level and flat. I have adjustable feet on all of the legs to get everything flat. I use a combination of my digital level, straight edge, and thread strung across the top of the surface to ensure accuracy.
I made all of the holes in the fuselage for the wing and stab sockets prior to mounting the fuselage to the table. I made hole on one side slightly oversize to allow adjustment without having to take the fuselage out of the jig every time.
Next, the fuselage is mounted to the table and is adjusted to zero pitch and the fin perpendicular to the building surface. I used the firewall jig station that was used in the construction of the fuselage to anchor the front end of the fuselage. I used two jig stations, turned 90 degrees, as clamps to hold the aft end of the fuselage.
The wing socket along with the lightply doughnuts are installed in the fuselage. The wing tube and the wings are installed. 1/2" balsa spacers are used between the wing roots and the fuselage sides to allow for the socket that extends out of the wing root. The wings are set in jigs to hold everything in place.
Measurements are first taken to set the wings at zero degrees incidence, then set the wingtips equal distance from the surface, and then from each wingtip to the tail and the nose. I use T-pins, set with CA to mark all of my measurement reference points. I have used a steel cable with an adjustable pointer to check the wing to tail measurement in the past, but for this build I upgraded the cable to a carbon rod. I used both, and the results where the same between the two.
Once everything was set I carefully applied Hysol to glue in the sockets and the doughnuts, making certain no glue gets onto the wing tube. Once all the glue is on, I recheck all measurements, and then kick back and wait for the glue to cure.
03-02-2011, 04:59 PM
#89
RE: Lightning Build
Mark,
Great question. It took some head scratching to figure out how I wanted to go about it. The sub-fin area on the bottom of the fuselage is covered with a piece of 1/4" balsa that is added after the stab socket is glued in. I slid the socket in with the lightply doughnuts on the socket. I then set everything up in the jig. I only glued the outside were the extra socket sticks about 3/16". Once that was all cured, I turned the fuselage over and glued the inside and the doughnuts through the open area in the bottom of the fuselage.
Great question. It took some head scratching to figure out how I wanted to go about it. The sub-fin area on the bottom of the fuselage is covered with a piece of 1/4" balsa that is added after the stab socket is glued in. I slid the socket in with the lightply doughnuts on the socket. I then set everything up in the jig. I only glued the outside were the extra socket sticks about 3/16". Once that was all cured, I turned the fuselage over and glued the inside and the doughnuts through the open area in the bottom of the fuselage.
03-03-2011, 08:26 AM
#92
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RE: Lightning Build
ORIGINAL: Viper Driver
The front of the fuselage forms a ''cage'' that supports the firewall and also ties into the landing gear block. This structure will carry most of the load from the motor back to the rest of the fuselage. The longerons are 1/8'' lightply, laminated on one side with 0.006 unidirectional carbon fiber. The firewall is 1/8'' end-grain balsa laminated with carbon fiber. This is all connected to the rest of the fuselage with 1/8'' balsa fuselage sides. The fuselage sides are reinforced with 1/32 plywood doublers around both the area of the wing mount and stab mount. I put lightply hard points in the fuselage sides for the wing attachment points and adjusters.
The front of the fuselage forms a ''cage'' that supports the firewall and also ties into the landing gear block. This structure will carry most of the load from the motor back to the rest of the fuselage. The longerons are 1/8'' lightply, laminated on one side with 0.006 unidirectional carbon fiber. The firewall is 1/8'' end-grain balsa laminated with carbon fiber. This is all connected to the rest of the fuselage with 1/8'' balsa fuselage sides. The fuselage sides are reinforced with 1/32 plywood doublers around both the area of the wing mount and stab mount. I put lightply hard points in the fuselage sides for the wing attachment points and adjusters.
03-06-2011, 05:39 AM
#94
RE: Lightning Build
I have been making quite a bit of progress (yes Arch, I consider this progress). It is really looking like and airplane now!
The leading corners at the tips are cut off and replaced with balsa to account for the curve of the tip. The leading and trailing edges are then glued on. The leading edges are 1/4" balsa and the trailing edges are 3/32" balsa. I use Gorilla Glue, applied with a foam brush to glue them on. I use hard 1/4" by 1/2" balsa sticks stacked on top of the leading and trailing edges to ensure they lay flat against the wing. The stack is then held on with blue tape.
The wing tips are hollowed out and added after the leading and trailing edges.
I then cut the control surfaces free. I stack the wings and stabs back in their respective shucks and use my band saw to roughly cut them out. I use 1/4" balsa for both leading and trailing edges of the control surfaces. I reinforce the wing trailing edge at the junction of the aileron inner tip and the trailing edge of the wing with carbon fiber.
I have also included another picture of the stab socket to help clarify the previous post on how I installed it.
The leading corners at the tips are cut off and replaced with balsa to account for the curve of the tip. The leading and trailing edges are then glued on. The leading edges are 1/4" balsa and the trailing edges are 3/32" balsa. I use Gorilla Glue, applied with a foam brush to glue them on. I use hard 1/4" by 1/2" balsa sticks stacked on top of the leading and trailing edges to ensure they lay flat against the wing. The stack is then held on with blue tape.
The wing tips are hollowed out and added after the leading and trailing edges.
I then cut the control surfaces free. I stack the wings and stabs back in their respective shucks and use my band saw to roughly cut them out. I use 1/4" balsa for both leading and trailing edges of the control surfaces. I reinforce the wing trailing edge at the junction of the aileron inner tip and the trailing edge of the wing with carbon fiber.
I have also included another picture of the stab socket to help clarify the previous post on how I installed it.
03-07-2011, 11:38 AM
#95
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RE: Lightning Build
Wow Jeff, Iwish Icould say I am impressed.. ok, Iam 
Been a lot of years my friend, looks like your work area has improved since the old days at dads house after school, haha.
Any chance of returning or visiting the west coast in the future? Would love to catch up.. your living my dream too!
Im trying to return to the air field.. got some time in on Dads planes last year a bit..
oh and...
IWANTARIDEINYOURWORKVEHICAL!!! cmon, just a few minutes on that stick!!
Oh well, worth a try.
PMme, ill send you my number bro.
Your old friend, JR
Been a lot of years my friend, looks like your work area has improved since the old days at dads house after school, haha.
Any chance of returning or visiting the west coast in the future? Would love to catch up.. your living my dream too!
Im trying to return to the air field.. got some time in on Dads planes last year a bit..
oh and...
IWANTARIDEINYOURWORKVEHICAL!!! cmon, just a few minutes on that stick!!
Oh well, worth a try.
PMme, ill send you my number bro.
Your old friend, JR
03-09-2011, 05:34 PM
#96
RE: Lightning Build
The root ribs are made from 3/16" balsa, reinforced with carbon fiber.
As far as general wing set-up goes, I like to use two nylon 1/4-20 bolts with wing nuts per wing panel to hold the wings on. This may be overkill as far as simply holding the wing panels on, but it has the benefit of making the wings extremely rigid. There is no slop when the wings are bolted on. There are square lightply plates for the bolts to secure to. I use one Gator wing adjustor per panel. I am reusing old adjustors from some of my old dearly departed aircraft, so I had to make new sockets. I searched high and low for the correct dimensions with no luck. I ended up using the correct OD phenolic tubing that I drilled out to the correct ID. End grain balsa blocks are glued to the rib to anchor the sockets.
The stab ribs use similar materials as the wings. Gator stab adjustors are courtesy of my buddy Tim. To mount the stab, I use 4x40 screws going into the ends of the stab tube.
As far as general wing set-up goes, I like to use two nylon 1/4-20 bolts with wing nuts per wing panel to hold the wings on. This may be overkill as far as simply holding the wing panels on, but it has the benefit of making the wings extremely rigid. There is no slop when the wings are bolted on. There are square lightply plates for the bolts to secure to. I use one Gator wing adjustor per panel. I am reusing old adjustors from some of my old dearly departed aircraft, so I had to make new sockets. I searched high and low for the correct dimensions with no luck. I ended up using the correct OD phenolic tubing that I drilled out to the correct ID. End grain balsa blocks are glued to the rib to anchor the sockets.
The stab ribs use similar materials as the wings. Gator stab adjustors are courtesy of my buddy Tim. To mount the stab, I use 4x40 screws going into the ends of the stab tube.
03-09-2011, 07:31 PM
#98
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RE: Lightning Build
Nice airplane, Jeff. Now that I move away from D2, all the cool people move to the area. Dammit!
I really love your wing planform. What's your wing area and what are your airfoil thicknesses? Looks similar to what I'm retrofitting on my Partners.
I really love your wing planform. What's your wing area and what are your airfoil thicknesses? Looks similar to what I'm retrofitting on my Partners.
03-12-2011, 05:20 AM
#100
RE: Lightning Build
The root ribs are pinned to the fuselage sides with a layer of wax paper in between (a very important step, I had to prove that to myself on the previous build) Gorilla Glue is applied to the root of the wing and stab, taking great care to not get any glue in the socket. The wings and stab are then installed with some weight on the tips to hold them flush against the fuselage side. After about an hour, I twist the wing and stab tube just to ensure they are not glued in place. The electrical tape is also removed at that time as well.
One little side note. I received a second shipment of balsa and when I opened the box the smell was outstanding! I guess that is another reason I like to build with balsa.
One little side note. I received a second shipment of balsa and when I opened the box the smell was outstanding! I guess that is another reason I like to build with balsa.