jstrach

Mine is electric; so my CG will be different than you. Currently Ihave a plane that has too much tail weight.

rgaynor

My Feedback: (1)

Mine is electric as well and was able to balance the CG by strategically placing Nimh battery. What setup are you using?

Scott

My Feedback: (10)

Ok Gentlemen, I got my little photo shoot finished and have to confess, I haveabout 35 pictures of this airplane on my PCand that was after deleting about 15 of them. It really is a nice looking Cessna ARF. I will spare you a lot of attachments to this post and add the link to my RCU page with about 9 of the photos I took this morning posted on it. Oh it's got the Saito FA-125 for power as you asked me what set up Ihad in it. I inverted it so as to avoid cutting a huge hole in the side of my airplane.

Now I've got to see if she balances!

Scott

My photo page:
http://www.rcuniverse.com/community/...y&memid=469681


Update.........Balanced it bythe book and neededto add 1.5 oz. to the tail just at the hing point.

I've got my RX'rAND lighting batteries mounted inside the cowling on either sideof the inverted engine.The Saito FA-125 with Keleo Pitts must add a little weight to it as well. I'd still rather have my batteries where I can get tothemthough, as my floor is CA'ddown like heck!

I hid the 1.5 oz of lead inside the tail conebut it's certainly nose heavy when you put a full tank of fuel in it! I guess that's good as it's got a huge wing and looks almost like a floater from the YouTube videos I've watched.
Plan to maiden it on the first calm day with no crosswindsas thecloser of our twoclub'srunways is paved and don't want any scrapes or bouncy landings.

Wyoming Cowboy

My Feedback: (13)

Here is the new & improved bird. Scrapped the Robart strut & went with the Sierra setup. Pricey but a lot more solid...custom "N" number (114WY) borrowed from a full-scale Turbo 182 that flies out of Douglas, Wyoming. Landing lights in the wing, thinking about adding a belly strobe as well...3-blade prop, & an O.S. FS95v Four Stroke. Very impressive scale sound for this airplane...maiden sometime this week hopefully.

Scott

My Feedback: (10)

Hill202

My Feedback: (24)

Well after reading this, it looks like I found a place for an OS FS 95 thats sitting on the shelf.

maxiemac

Hi Hill202 - I think you will find your OS95 will do a very good job - I have now fitted an OS95AX with Bisson Pitts muffler that now flys my 182 with ease and at scale speeds - I found I needed to block off one of the Bisson muffler outlets to create more muffler back pressure and since then have had no dead stick landings - the rest of the story below.

On a previous post I mentioned fitting an OS120AX because I wanted extra power for float flying and that the 120AX came with extra muffler fittings allowing the engine and muffler to fit in the cowl with no cowl cutouts except for the muffler outlet in an unseen position under the cowl. Well sometimes we learn things the hard way - not enough ground clearance for a 16" prop, too low engine revs to fly at scale speedplus insufficient mixture tuning causing lots of dead stick landings with lots of nose gear failures - I'm now up to Robart noseleg number 3 with 2 spares to go.

I looked and looked through this forum for pics where others hadsaid they had fitted theSierra leg but I didn't see any pics of a Sierra installation. I tried to use the Sierra noseleg designed for the Hangar 9 Cessna 182 - and it is a lot bigger and stronger than the Robart but I couldn't make it fit without a lot of firewall mods , tank relocation therefore cockpit alteration to warrant fitting it - plus I figured a real heavy landing (not that I try to do them) with this noseleg because of its strength would pull the firewall out - better I stick to the sacrificial Robart noseleg.

On to another topic - someone else said of their Vertical stab nearly falling off and a rudder with lots of flutter - I too have had rudder flutter - I saw that the geometry of the rudder pushrod to rudder controlconnection was of a twisting turning motion that appeared to me would give theclevisa hard time so I fitted a ball link - I got flutter - then I changed it for a clevis and still got flutter - in the meantime I had managed to hit the vertical stab with my foot stepping over it and heard it crack - I zapped it back together and the fixappeared fine - then I got severe flutter, landed and found thevertical stab had come away from the top of the fuz. - I cut through the covering along both sidesof the dorsal finto lever up the fin/vert. stab.- because the dorsal fin is connected to the vert. stab. I did have to break it away from the top of the fuz to see more of the vert. stab. break - see the pics below.

I had alreadyseen there was no trailing edge rudder post throughputto the bottom of the fuzto give itstrength and havenow found there is no vert. stab. leading edge connection into the fuz either - the whole vert. stab.is justglued to the top of the fuz.- the vertical stab has a relatively small thicker piece of (soft) balsa let into to top of the fuz forstrength - but it's all soft balsa - the moral of this story - don't accidently kick your vert. stab and if you do break it, take it right off, dorsal fin and all and reglue and then fit some dowels through the horiz. stab into the vert. stab to better strengthen it.

And lastly, I going to fit a cable pull pull system to my rudder to eliminate the rudder flutter - more on that later.

cheers - maxiemac - smile it don't hurt

Hill202

My Feedback: (24)

Thanks for the tips Maxiemac. I did not see any photos of the Sierra leg either. Maybe someone will post a few. Regardless of what gear I use, that firewall is getting glassed. Let us know how that pull-pull works out for you.

Scott

My Feedback: (10)

Yes, I would definately second the opinion of Maxiemac regarding the OS .95 as my Saito 1.25 is too much engine for scale flying, period.

I swing a 15x8, not a 16x6and it has plenty of ground clearance, never dies or sputters, etc.but it is rather large soI'm going with the Graupner 14x7 3-blade or even purposely robtheairframe of power by using the much more inefficient MA 14x7 3-blade which may be the simplest option for me at this point and it looks alot more scale than the wider Graupner.

Go with the 95 and you will be happy!

Scott

maxiemac

Hi Hill202 -I fitted the pull pull cables to the rudder control hornand wasgoing to usea servo cross arm mounted to the fuz just adjacent to the rudder control arm to connect the cables toand then a rod from there to the rudder control arm - starting to look and feel messy at the rudder end - another thought was to use a pulley - connect one cable to the rudder control arm and the other to the same place but via a pulley to pull from the other direction - once again the geometry looked messy.

What to do? - to solder a cross piece on the rudder control horn meant removing the rudder - not so hard to do...but... I need to remove both elevators to get the rudder out and as most know the rudder went in first followed by the elevators and when assembling these partsthe elevator control rod and hinges need to be assembled and glued at the same time - but to pull them apart is not so easy - cut the hinges is ok but to remove the control rod thatis epoxied in place in each elevator halfwill probably do a bit of damage plus the control rod is behind the rear fuz former - again, what to do?

Have another crack at stiffening up the rudder push rod to rudder control horn connection - already tried a ball link and then a clevis both of which weren't good, then a thought appeared - use a swivel ball link to allow for the twisting turning motion of this connection - luckily I had a Dubro 367 swivel ball link and so fitted it - but - still more slop than I liked to see - then added a washer between the spacer and nylon control horn plus another between the nut and nylon control horn to stiffen up the whole assembly - all in all have reduced the slop by at least 50% with rudder trailing edge movementtravel each way of about 3mm - 1/8" - not ideal but will have to do for now.

I'll fly it a few times at all speeds to observe if any rudder flutterand, if any, next step iron on some Monokote strips to seal the rudder to vert. stab. gap - if that don't work it's back to the drawing board and remove elevators and rudder and start again. Pics show a 1" longinsert of larger nyrod inner drilled out to 2.5mm to reduce slop between control rod andinstalled tube at each end of the pushrod tube plus a pic of swivel ball link connection with extra washers.

cheers - we live and learn - maxiemac - smile it don't hurt

Hill202

My Feedback: (24)

Thanks for the input Scott. Can someone tell me which Sierra gear they used ? I'm assuming it was the one for the H9 Cessna that they have.

Maxiemac, sorry I can't help you out with the rudder flutter as I have not received my plane yet. Maybe sealing the gap will solve your problems.

Scott

My Feedback: (10)

At the risk of sounding stupid, what is the symptom of "rudder flutter"? An inflight noise, I gather? Is it an obvious symptom while giving rudder inputs? Mine has only been up and down 5 or 6 times and I could not detect anything that would indicate a problem with my rudder. Perhaps it's something I need to listen for? Maybe not an issue with my airplane huh?

Scott

Hill202

My Feedback: (24)

I've had it happen with alierons but I never had it happen with the rudder.

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

Maxie, I did post about rudder flutter. A pull-pull would solve the problem but I too, saw the same problems you did. I can't believe TF would build this without vertical supports for vertical stab. I don't do stunts with this plane yet, it still cracks the glue joints at the vertical stab. The problem I believe is in the flex of the push-rod. It's quite a ways from the rudder to the sevo up front. I'm using a seperate servo for the rudder and one for stearing. Yes, the rod is secured along the length but, it's just enough to flex and make the rudder resonate. Try your DuBro set-up and then report after a number of flights. Thanks, MM

handyman 220

My Feedback: (54)

This is kind of off topic, but I had a Carl Goldberg Skylane from many years ago that also suffered from rudder flutter. I also tracked it down to the rudder pushrod being to flexible. When I do assemble my Cessna I will pay very close attention to the rudder pushrod.

maxiemac

Scott - flutter is the sharp movementone way and then the other ofa control surface as the wind rushing down one side pushes the control surface in one directionand then as the other side of the control surface enters thewindsteam on the other side it is pushed back to where it came from, a high speedoscillation of the control surface is then set up that can only be stopped by slowing the aircraft down until this oscillation stops - a thorough investigation needs to be done to find out why.

There can be a number of sources of control surface 'flutter'- lack of stiffness in the control surface construction, any looseness in any partofthe linkage between the servo output and thecontrol surfaceitself - visually you can see flutter and you can also hear it as a buzzing sound - I have seen it before on ailerons and elevators but this is my first experience with rudder flutter and it happens to be on this TF Cessna 182 ARF. I had weakened my vert. stab. by accidently kickingit as I stepped over it -thought I had repaired itok only to have the rudder flutter actually break the already weakened joint of the vert. stab. to the top of the fuz in flight when flying the model at higher than scale speed.

I think it's mainly due to the raked back vertical stabiliser with raked back rudder control surface and the way the rudder control horn moves through an arc and rises and falls on its way through this arc - it seems to me to be a difficult problem to solve because of thearcing motion at the connection point of the rudder control arm to its linearinput motion. Flutter is not caused by the pilot at the transmitter - he would need to be moving that stick at very high speed, probably at a speed higherthan the thumb can do.

If you or any other assembler of this ARF don't have rudder flutter then good luck for you, it's just that a coupleof people, maybe more,do have this problem and in my case I'm trying to find a way to stop the flutter - if I do I'll let this forum know. In the meantime I found these 'inputs' about rudder flutter on The Wattflyer Forum - have a look.

http://www.wattflyer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=39896

cheers - smile it don't hurt maxiemac

Scott

My Feedback: (10)

Maxiemac,

Thanks for all of that information and wow, that is a bad deal for certain! I feel fortunate about my cessna and a bit worried at the same time. This will cause me to fly with extra care and focus on the airplane a bit more than I would have in ignorant bliss!

I'll have to pay close attention to mine in future flights, especially when/if I run it at high speeds. I definately have not had flutter as of yet but only have a handful of short flights on mine too. I'll keep my fingers crossed and this may be a good reason to baby it a bit and not cause myself undue trouble withmy over sized Satio FA-125aac on the speed aspect.

Thanks,

Scott

maxiemac

Gidday MM from downunder - I did the test flight today and managed to make the vert. stab. fail again - it was solidly glued when I took it out to the flying field but after 10 minutes flying it was loose on the fuz. I did several loops, cuban eights full and half, imellmans followed by split s (reversal) all taking the airframe to high speeds - on several passes I could hear the 'buz' but couldn't see it - part of me wanted it to be engine or some other part of airframe resonance but on landing I confirmed it must have been rudder flutter 'cos the vert. stab. was loose along the glue line connection of vert.stab. to fuz..

I had intended to 'pin' the forwardand trailing edges ofthe stab. thru the horiz.stab but decided not to - I wanted to see if the vert. stab. would fail again with its beefed up swivel connector arrangement - and it did - as said earlier I had about 3mm (1/8") slop at therudder trailing edgebut I couldstill see some flex at the swivel joint - but I had to try it to find out what would happen.

So next step is, remove the stab (as shown in previous post),instal some vertical reinforcement of the vert. stab. thru into the fuz. reglue it,iron on some Monokote film downeach side of the stab./rudder gapthen 'pin' thevert. stab. thru the horiz.stab.plus add a mini 3.9kgmetal geared servoinside the tail pod to act as direct push/pull action in the same plane as the ruddercontrol arm.

If all the above still doesn't solve it I'llextend the outer trailing edges of the vert. stab. and round the leading edge of the rudder so that the rudder sits in the 'glove' of the vert. stab. - My Aerocommander Shrike has a raked vert. stab and rudder with the rudder sitting inside the vert. stab. trailing edge - it worked then, it can work again - watch this space.

cheers - maxiemax - smile it don't hurt

Hill202

My Feedback: (24)

What if you fiberglassed the joint between the stab and fuselage?

maxiemac

Hill202 - yep I could do that but first I want to remove the entire vert. stab. and dorsal fin and actually see what's under there to see how it's constructed - I've got some ideas on how to fix it and I probably willfibreglass that areato strengthen it.

cheers - maxiemac

MormonMike

My Feedback: (2)

Maxi, I'm taking notes here. I did a few smooth flights too with no stressful maneuvers. Tail is still glued tight. I'm thinking about modifying that control arm in the tail. I might fashion and weld a "T" in place of the single bend. Then use two threaded eyelets. It might work as a pull-pull connector... and yes, being too tight wont let it work. Keep at it. MM

rciraldo

Guys...I have a TF C 182 and I love it. Set it up as electric with a Hacker A-50 and 8 cells....16 x 10 prop....about 2000 watts....weighs in at 14 lbs fully loaded. This is a fantastic scale - like plane. It flies at half throttle with my power set up....for about 12 minutes....uses 4000 MA of the twin 5000 MA batts. Is very fast if you want it to be....not really scale-like, but fun. I used a Robart strut in the nose...skipped the wheel pants all around. The lights all work but they are not too visible in bright sun. I use a switch and a 700 MA nicad for the running lights....Only thing I do not like about the plane is the poor connection between the struts and the fuse/wings....into the wood block. It works but it is pretty amateurish. Had to re-tap the spinner nut to make it work with the Hacker prop adapter....looks great and works fine. This is a fine plane that flies welll and draws lots of attention....all the 3-D guys can be churning up the air but there is nothing like a scale plane flying by low. Oh....the battery setup I used prevented me from using the cockpit kit....mine just has a board and a pilot bust on it...but high wing planes are pretty futile re scale interiors....have to look hard inside and under the wing to appreciate it. I love this as a basic large size sport scale model.....flies great....easy to swap out the batteries and put in fresh ones to fly again....usually do 4 flights per day.....(I bring several other planes to the field as well). Beware of one issue....make sure this plane has lots of speed down the runway and let it lift off itself....do not jerk it into the sky or you can tip stall it....I almost had a disaster when the plane veered off center and I jerkerd it up to lift off......do not do this.....abort and do the takeoff again.

Landngs with full flaps are fine if there is no wind....if there is a breeze, skip the flaps. I am glad I got this plane...thought I would be bored with it but it always reveals some nuanced difference as it flies. It will roll and loop and fly inverted....but what's the point???? Best fun is just to fly it and adapt to the weather you have.

jstrach

Would love to see some photos; because I'm having a very different flight dynamic/experience with my Cessna... and I really want to love it. And I just don't.... cause it's underpowered right now. Would love some specific details of what you have installed - but I'm more a "visual" kinda guy. Pics???

rciraldo

My pics of the plane look like all the others you see on this thread...ones with the Robart strut in the nose. Re the electric setup: Hacker A-50 outrunner motor.....Castle 100 amp ICE speed controller....two 4 cell 5000 MAH Turnigy Nano Tech batteries hooked up in series (8 cell voltage)....16x10 APC prop. The plane has lots of power (about 140 watts per lb). With this battry setup, the battery for the lights needs to be placed aft for proper balance. I had to do major cutting and sanding in the battery compartment for these batts to fit. They both lie on a velcro pad and are secure that way for flight....no straps, etc....get good cooling airflow from the cowl, through the firewall. I cannot see how the recommended power setup of 5 cells would fly this plane....you might shed about 16 oz in battery weight but the power would be less. An issue with this plane is the ground clearance....you need at least a 15" prop for proper power in most electric setups......I guess a 3 blade prop would be cool and scale looking and give more clearance....but you have to go thru the whole custom spinner routine.

Mine is fine the way it is....as I said, the only real issue is the way the struts attach. I plan to permanently epoxy protruding threaded studs in the wing and fuse.....these will fit through the struts....I will secure with nylon or metal wing nuts. Will be easier to set up at the field. Am still wondering if the struts are really needed for flight...are they functional or cosmetic? Wonder if this big one piece wing is well built inside.

maxiemac

Hirciraldo - I have some thoughts to share with you - bite the bullet and go 3 blade prop - I hada 120 2 strokeengine in mine that swung a 16" prop and there was not enough ground clearance so Ifitted a90 2 strokeengine that swings a 14" prop using the kit 2B spinner- I now have better prop to ground clearance - I found it difficult tofind a long skinny 3 blade spinner anywhere and I alsofound that Tru-Turn no longer make them (you may have better luck in the US) I did buy a normal Tru-Turn 3 blader and 3B prop but as yethavenot fitted them.

With regard to the struts - they are a functional part of the airplane design and should be used - It is unknown to me anywhere in these TFCessna 182 forums where someone flies this model without struts - strong reasons are - what's in the wing?, how strong is it without struts? My thinking is, this model needs those strutsto stop the wing from falling off or 'clapping hands' when you least expect it, plus for scale aesthetics - after all the real one needs them and has them.

To put studs in place of bolting thru the struts will be a difficult proposition because I don't think you will be able to properly fit the struts in place over the studs because of what the geometry of the angles of the fixed studs will be, and then trying to fit fixed distance holes in the struts over them - it won't happen - the wing is in a fixed postion and so will be the studs and there will be no movement of either - better to bolt thru the ends of the struts which is what the kit provided for. I had to reshape the curved end of my struts to make them fit flush to the fuselage and then instal Dubro 4-40 brass threaded inserts in a new place to accept the 4-40 cap head bolts I now use - I know my wing 'aint goin' no-where during flight.

cheers - hope this helps - cheers again - maxiemac - smile it don't hurt