My new build
10-19-2012, 03:34 PM
#1
My new build
Old timer Satyr with a 62 inch wing. Cut the kit and stringers yesterday and just started gluing things. Started with the fuse first, it's the hardest part of the build. As you can see from the parts, there isn't a lot of wood in this build, it's old time construction. The plane was designed in 1942 and the plans are sold by MAN. This will be three channel with electric power. Another gift build for an old friend. There are a lot of very thin stringers. I think I will paint the parts then cover the plan with the tinted covering so people can see how it is built.
10-21-2012, 09:37 AM
#4
RE: My new build
This is how they were built when I first started, a lot of sticks!! I installed the vertical sticks yesterday but that dumbass that's married to my wife forgot the last two so I had to put those in this morning. These are all hardwood sticks and CA just doesn't work well on hardwood, every piece requires epoxy so it's going to take about a week to get the fuse together. In a while I will go out and install the cross braces. That dumbass missed seeing how the cross braces were installed into notches in the top stringer so I will have to cut them before I go on. Lucky I have a small dental hand piece with thin cut off wheels or I would be doing this by hand and breaking out the little parts as I cut.
10-21-2012, 11:36 AM
#5
RE: My new build
Thinking I could get away with using CA and get moving a bit faster I tried to glue in the cross bracing. It's under a light load and I ended up with little pieces of wood blowing all over the shop. I ended up having to epoxy one side and wait for it to set up before I can epoxy the other side. Balsa is so much easier to work with! I may set the fuse aside and while it is setting up start building the wing?
10-21-2012, 04:38 PM
#7
Senior Member
RE: My new build
Geez - last time I saw a stick structure like that was when I did a project in middle school - a model of the original oil drilling rig in PA.
As you might well guess - I wasn't into RC back then.
Back to fixing my Volvo ...
As you might well guess - I wasn't into RC back then.
Back to fixing my Volvo ...
10-22-2012, 09:14 AM
#9
RE: My new build
I have a huge sheet of 1/32 ply but I want to use balsa for the gussets so I can use CA. I think the last time I built a stick plane like this was in 1960, a 62 inch cub. This is good practice for when I get to the Howard Pete but it has a lot more formers to glue to. I did build a couple of Proctor RB planes teaching a kid how to do it about 10 years ago? The building went OK but using silk span was a thrill. Now there is a lot of top formers to epoxy in, more hurry up and wait!
10-23-2012, 06:55 AM
#11
Banned
RE: My new build
Hello Gray Beard,
I just have to read your postings as I appreciate them.
I started at your initial (#1) and quickly remembered the times I used to build light free flights with thin poplar.
Before I got to read post #8 I was thinking of responding with the suggestion to use little triangular pieces to increase the glue binding area like large fillets that also help fix the angles between pieces.
There was no CA in those days. We were using glue sold mainly for gluing floor tiles. That choice was because it was (is) more resistant to water or humidity than most wood glue of those days.
Then I reached post #8 and I have no more need than to thank "sorrich" for his suggestion that is also mine.
There is lots of pleasures to think of"The Good Old Times"and actually build in theold styles is sure to give you much satisfaction.
Enjoywhile I wish you great success.
Zor
I just have to read your postings as I appreciate them.
I started at your initial (#1) and quickly remembered the times I used to build light free flights with thin poplar.
Before I got to read post #8 I was thinking of responding with the suggestion to use little triangular pieces to increase the glue binding area like large fillets that also help fix the angles between pieces.
There was no CA in those days. We were using glue sold mainly for gluing floor tiles. That choice was because it was (is) more resistant to water or humidity than most wood glue of those days.
Then I reached post #8 and I have no more need than to thank "sorrich" for his suggestion that is also mine.
There is lots of pleasures to think of"The Good Old Times"and actually build in theold styles is sure to give you much satisfaction.
Enjoywhile I wish you great success.
Zor
10-23-2012, 09:07 AM
#12
RE: My new build
Yep, back in the 50s and early 60 this is how all the free flights were build. Back then I used Ambroids glue. I used my mothers sewing pins too, I don't recall ever seeing Tee Pins back in those days. I still use a soft pine building board these days so the pins will go in and hold. Last night as soon as my wife started watching the football game I went out and glued in the top formers. I had one fall forward while setting up so I have to go out and remove it then re-glue the little sucker!!
Back in 1963 my father came home from work with a couple ounces of what turned out to be CA glue. I never once gave any thought to using it to build models with. My dad was an engineer in Aerospace at the time and came home with all kinds of cool stuff before the general public ever saw it. Then they came out with Super glue or Crazy glue and the commercials were on TV constantly but still I never gave it a thought to building my planes? Once I tried it I was kicking myself for being that stupid. This build is making me nuts waiting for the epoxy to dry. I think balsa shims will be OK, the fuse is now very strong and doesn't twist. Lot more sticks to be added still then I will have LG blocks and a number of interior items to epoxy in. It's a lot of work but a very cool plane when finished, my friend wanted an old school plane and this one fits the bill.
Back in 1963 my father came home from work with a couple ounces of what turned out to be CA glue. I never once gave any thought to using it to build models with. My dad was an engineer in Aerospace at the time and came home with all kinds of cool stuff before the general public ever saw it. Then they came out with Super glue or Crazy glue and the commercials were on TV constantly but still I never gave it a thought to building my planes? Once I tried it I was kicking myself for being that stupid. This build is making me nuts waiting for the epoxy to dry. I think balsa shims will be OK, the fuse is now very strong and doesn't twist. Lot more sticks to be added still then I will have LG blocks and a number of interior items to epoxy in. It's a lot of work but a very cool plane when finished, my friend wanted an old school plane and this one fits the bill.
10-23-2012, 12:25 PM
#13
Banned
RE: My new build
I recognize many advantages that new technoloy has brought into our hobby but I must say that old technology as illustrated in your pictures is as good these days as it was in "The Good Old Times".
We often built having a much lower "mass (weight) to size ratio" and with good practice in the "art of gluing" we were not concerned with crashes that rarely needed much repair. Light weight and slower flyng speeds wereto our advantage.
A 6 feet wingspan model of about two (2) to three (3) lbs and covered with old lady's silk stockings and dope would come out of a crash barely damaged. It was like dropping a pillow to the sidewalk from a third floor balcony and see if the material needed some sewing
.
I will avoid bringing up some of the old techniques as I think you will be doing a fine job in your build log.
Anticipating your future postings.
Zor
We often built having a much lower "mass (weight) to size ratio" and with good practice in the "art of gluing" we were not concerned with crashes that rarely needed much repair. Light weight and slower flyng speeds wereto our advantage.
A 6 feet wingspan model of about two (2) to three (3) lbs and covered with old lady's silk stockings and dope would come out of a crash barely damaged. It was like dropping a pillow to the sidewalk from a third floor balcony and see if the material needed some sewing
. I will avoid bringing up some of the old techniques as I think you will be doing a fine job in your build log.
Anticipating your future postings.
Zor
10-23-2012, 01:08 PM
#14
RE: My new build
Why not do an old school build and show the old tricks. I found a lot of plans in the old timer section of MAN plans. I was going to build two of these at the same time, one for myself but I'm in a hurry to get to my own build. After seeing the time it takes to build the fuse I'm glad I only decided to build the one. When I was a kid I would just come home from school and glue something then go find something else to do until prime time TV came on. My folks let me do my building in the living room so I built more while watching TV. I wasn't allowed to cover them in the house, I used silk span and dope and my mom hated the smell. My wife was more understanding and I was able to watch TV in the living room and cover them. I just got back in from gluing in two sticks and they are bent and under a load so it will be hours before I can glue in more sticks.
I decided to build a cake while I'm waiting for the epoxy to set. My wife is all for that idea. Lunch first then it's off to the kitchen!!
Cake, something else to do during prime time!!
I decided to build a cake while I'm waiting for the epoxy to set. My wife is all for that idea. Lunch first then it's off to the kitchen!!
Cake, something else to do during prime time!!
10-23-2012, 04:19 PM
#16
Banned
RE: My new build
ORIGINAL: goirish
everybody over to Gene's house for cake and ice-cream
everybody over to Gene's house for cake and ice-cream
I am joining "goirish" ___\
We can have a bit of fun and the cake is nice with added Canadian maple syrup.
Zor
10-24-2012, 10:06 AM
#17
RE: My new build
My wife and I live by the rule: Always eat your desert first, you may not live through dinner!! That's what we did last night. I also cooked up a couple steaks but we each only ate half so we don't need to cook dinner tonight.
This morning I thought I would just walk out and glue in the last of the sticks, Wrong!! I glued in a couple of sticks that were under a load. I moistened them too so they would take a warp to relieve the tension when they dried. I used clamps and a bag of lead shot to hold things down. When I went out this morning I discovered the bag of lead shot had slid off so I had to re-glue everything again. While doing some other minor work I managed to knock out a couple of the vertical sticks with my fat wrinkled hands!!
No big deal, I had the epoxy mixed so once I located the little sticks , on the floor with the scraps of course!! I just glued everything back up. 5 more sticks to go and I will install the gussets so this doesn't happen again. I think I will add another stick to the fuse bottom too, one more long spar just to be safe. If my friend thinks it weighs too much he can just install a bigger motor.
This morning I thought I would just walk out and glue in the last of the sticks, Wrong!! I glued in a couple of sticks that were under a load. I moistened them too so they would take a warp to relieve the tension when they dried. I used clamps and a bag of lead shot to hold things down. When I went out this morning I discovered the bag of lead shot had slid off so I had to re-glue everything again. While doing some other minor work I managed to knock out a couple of the vertical sticks with my fat wrinkled hands!!
No big deal, I had the epoxy mixed so once I located the little sticks , on the floor with the scraps of course!! I just glued everything back up. 5 more sticks to go and I will install the gussets so this doesn't happen again. I think I will add another stick to the fuse bottom too, one more long spar just to be safe. If my friend thinks it weighs too much he can just install a bigger motor.
10-24-2012, 12:56 PM
#19
RE: My new build
Didn't say I wasn't having fun!! The surprises keep me on my toes!!! It's all fixed and I'm installing the top stringers now, one at a time. The guys come over and take note of all my clamps, funny how fast I run out of them.
10-28-2012, 08:53 AM
#22
RE: My new build
It is starting to look like something now, a plane if you look real hard and squint your eyes. If you don't then it looks like something a kid is making from an erector set. The sticks are bent and under a load so sometimes a part will snap off when the epoxy is setting up and not be in the location you left it in the night before. Walking out to the shop in the morning can often be a surprise when you see where the parts ended up. After gluing I do wet the parts so they take a warp and the pressure is relieved from the parts. This morning no surprises and it's time to put in the cross braces and hard wood mounts for the LG. I have to come up with a place to mount the battery so it can be gotten to with ease. A mount and a hatch? I have several ideas.
10-28-2012, 10:13 AM
#23
RE: My new build
Greybeard, in the second photo did the last twotop former/turtle deck slip out of position? I see what you mean about parts being under load. It must be like Easter morning going on an egg hunt!
10-28-2012, 06:31 PM
#24
RE: My new build
Just the one and it slid to the side and glued itself to the longeron. I used a bag of shotgun pellets in a bag to hold down the front one night then came into the house for the night, seems the shot rolled and the bag fell off the top of the fuse so I had to re-glue some more parts in. For the most part the fuse is finished but I have to glue in some gussets to help hold everything together in flight. In my minds eye I see little sticks poking through the covering after the first loop.Tomorrow I will maybe get to start working with balsa again where CA will do it all. This one is keeping me on my toes but it is a fun build.
10-29-2012, 10:05 AM
#25
RE: My new build
This mornings big surprise, nothing exploded or went sailing off into the void. I have a lot of little things that need doing to the fuse but today I will be moving onto the wing or stabs. Be good to get away from the epoxy for a while.