Falcon 64

I suppose so, I hope they can and will...

You all want FEJ to shut down, aband them and walk the steps into the sea..ok..

THAT! is a shame, and 99,9% of the incomes here in this thread, is NOT A GOOD WAY TO SPEND YOUR MONEY!..

I sent you words of an professor in aerodynamics, the FACTS! Despite none wanted further facts, it`s infact been argued down to "nothing". I chimed into page 32 and said balance is it, since 32 it changed into factory and structure. I even said AMA don`t know what rule they maid about MAC. They left things without, like the most of you. The latest posts now says someone changed it into a another thing what this thread really was about. It was about finding the cause, not to feel yourself better in pull the trigger on someone you don`t know. We all know FEJ now as the dark angel, hmm?

In numerous posts in balancing the controls to the tired, my thing, have actually given up that thing, because you all don`t get it either way.. You stick to the fist, not the hand.

The latest guys in in this thread knows more than me or a professor, "you can get a higher VNE in balancing, but not much ect etc". Since page 32 about my balancing thing, things changed, it changend into my "theory" and later on into the lack om com, since 80% of the inplies saw it, they left out, saw it... But the playgroundbullies saw this as fuel.

At a first glimse, YES, and since "you all are" listening to playbullies, why and how could you othervice, if you stand back and not willing to stand up for comment? Would anyone now buy a jet there as it delivers? Because YOU guys in this thread finally reached the limit of a model not proven and tested (should have been, none want`s to be a test pilot regardless of the wallet) was shot down and still burns! of course, and all the others with him..and he will as long as the lack of com is so!.

And as I understanf FEJ still delivers without a balance! and all the others too, well that is a shame, accordingly to my video of Skymaster AND "ALL" THE OTHERS, wich makes ditto elevators!
IT`s not in the H-Comb, not in the wings or bulkheads, if you place that elevator and test it, and performs higher than the servo does in hold, beyond the holding strengt of the servo, ok, what is the next to blame? Can we take a look of the POSSIBLITY that an balanced elevator on our jets NEVER will FLUTTER?
No, because it`s the rigidity that counst here! Hello, you won`t BULILD structrally stronger than the servo can resist! And you can`build a strong enough structure to withstand a flutter, the weakest point will break no matter what it is!

Dyrability. And what is such a report to rely on, we heard other had things kneeling, F-18? Test-pilots, what were they up to when they gave it a green? Is it seen on the behalf of the manufacturer? I ask, what and whom were they, the test personell.? Names in it ( we have learned here that some others have well known pilots behind them), have they been paid, is there something here we others don`t and will not know? Anyhow, a F-18 went down despite a test- personell. A grop aimed for the task, at the app 25th flight. Manufacturer chimed in and gets a reward for that, BUT IT STILL failed.. So who was they?

If I COULD BEEN NEXT TO A FEJ F-14 Tomcat IN THE TEST OF MINE and be next aside to it, I could bet she had a survived a dive from 1000 meters with 50% throttle straith down..onto the elevators as the test, with static balanced elevators!... And my moth salary if I failed was HIS, that should cover a good most of it. I`m THAT sure. Just sorry hadn`t seen it yet and won`t have the chance to make such a test, anyone adjusting their elevators others than mine.

Point is, FEJ have done those things because of us, because we pushed someone to it. The Tomcat became because this is the plane (for some), the ultimate.

This is WHY is say I quote statements from a MAN (Gerry) standing against all of you like I do, because he has another oppinion than YOU, he thinks a better plan is to lead the way to make "(outstanding hangar-queens)" from your illutions about it into a very fact, that FEJ makes outstanding things for us, and just us.

It all burns down to calories, I`ve been blocked by far and that`s just fine for me !, I don`t care since those aren`t willing to see the other way around anyway.
Because I climb the fences to stand up and shout as long as the bullies try to shout the loudest!, as long as I KNOW I HAVE BY BACK cleared and KNOW WHAT I SAY AND CAN.

FEJ are wrong in their com-thing, they MUST learn there, this is infact their BIGGEST issue.. Balance the setting and get in touch with their byers, that will and would set new blood and life into the factory.

But I said, I refuse to be kneeled by people that says professors are fools, I always will, and you all standstillers should be ashamed or at least learn and do the essense here.
I stand behind that and all the other things I said.

I`m sorry dubd, you not wanted a new Tomcat after all..you left it and rolled the curtain.
You could if this thread has directed away from inputs of your mates swinging the clubs, most of them have no relation to FEJ other than the rumour.
I guess I was wishing you the very best from early on..

dubd

Falcon, I don't think you or the professors are fools. However, it's worthless to continue to discuss balancing of a stab when FEJ does not care to even respond. FEJ had plenty of time to respond early in this thread when the discussion was entirely technical and without prejudice. The club swinging as you put it has happened in their absence and it's justified IMO. Regardless of what your opinion is of why the plane crashed, FEJ's poor customer service is undeniable.

The way FEJ and their reps have treated me is not an isolated event. The last few years have been littered with many cases of FEJ ignoring their customers after a failure. I have one foot of of this hobby because of FEJ, their reps, and some people who I considered friends, but turned out to be aholes. Don't feel sorry for me. Feel sorry for FEJ's NEXT victim.

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

Falcon64, easy on the crack dude!

RonTins

Easy on Falcon64 , English isn't his first language.

Falcon 64

I know, and it`s essential for me in my words what I also said, their lack of com is their biggest loss. Early in the thread is was purely technical yes (see latest posts how it have been for others), and I dropped a bomb at page 32. Hopefully thousand have adjusted both the elevators (and the CG) accordingly to it since then.
I feel sorry for you ok, because everyone receiving a jet from now, despite from whom, use it as it is without a further check, have no sorry from my corner..
The flutter-thing will stop there if you want it to.

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

It appears to me that FEJ has "put the nails in their own coffin" by their attitude towards this, as well as all the other crashes that were due to their faulty designs that they continually choose to ignore. That is no way to treat customers. And it's no way to stay in business.

Now, it's just a matter of time before they run out of money and close their doors.

The hobby will be much better off without FEJ in business. It will also serve notice to other jet manufacturers that this type of behavior will not be tolerated. If a company wants to stay in business, then it better make a reliable product, and have good customer service.

Falcon 64

Try an reply in Norwegian . My spelling is...at least cheap, and so is my replies for the most of you. But I`ve pointed out many things in my latest l o n g reply, that leaves the blinded still go blind. And for them, I feel no sorry.
Not for dubd, though as I said. No one knew back then..

And from now on, I`m just a reader, playground is all yours, were you some bullies want it to be .

FenderBean

Falcon so your saying if I balance my elevators with weight so it is level on the shaft rotation point I will not have to worry about my f14 fluttering?

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Thats what he is saying, and if you point it straight down at the ground at full throttle and it flutters, he will give you a months salary.. Which will cover "most" of the cost of the model.


I still say he should put his money where is mouth is and pay for his own FEJ F14 and do his static balancing of the stabs and put his own $20,000 worth of airplane in the line to prove his theory! Otherwise, what does he have to loose, hes just another screen-name on the internet...

FalconWings

My Feedback: (57)

chopper52

Well, the F-14 is not on there website any more.Someone got the hint,,Mabey!!!!!!!!!! But all there planes are Honeycomb,Not me,,,, not ever would I own that crap,Not even it was free!! and that my friends is the truth......

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

The F-14 is still on their website. Fej just changed the link. If you click on the picture of the F-14 as it flips through, you can get to the webpage. But now, fej took off the part about helping out with that crash in California (dubd)!!

They also went back to this write-up;

All new high light material - honeycomb core,
carbon fiber material on complete model with
vacuum bags to be super light and super strong

LGM Graphix

My Feedback: (22)

Don't know what website you're looking at but I see not only the one like Dantley lost, but the smaller one, and....... A bigger one!!!!!!

Falcon 64

YES!
Ivertmas says 100%, I said up to 50, what a bomb he did.

chopper52

You know,, it doesn't realy matter Its there now but a few days ago it was'nt,And I see they changed there web site,Because that was not the same either.If I had over $20,000 in that Jet, I sure as H would be sueing them,,,,, and it was a defect,,,,But now we cover our butts with more carbon fiber,,,,,I still would NOT own one..................And people wonder why there not any Jobs,,Ask the 5year old brats that run this country Get the H out of CHINA!!!!!! This thead should be shut down,it isnt constuctive anymore..............

gunradd

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I wore mine on Saturday for some pics. I am sure they will be posted soon.

Falcon 64

Si, eso es lo que haces, amigo..

oistein

My Feedback: (1)

Hi all,

I think all of us agrees with dubd that FEJ is way to bad and arrogant in their communication or rather the lack of it. I would probably have taken the loss a lot worse than he does and after reading dubd's post here he seem very relaxed and reasonable if you ask me. I do however find the discussion about avoiding flutter very interesting and important. What if we make a new thread about that subject and cut all the FEJ stuff? I assume others might call in too.

I find falcons posts interesting, at least from what i understand from them. There is a big improvement potential language wise, but he has given us videos, drawings and explanation which i find interesting and certainly is a good contribution. I would even be helping in translating from norwegian to english if that would make it more understandable. I do not know him in person nor have i ever spoke to him, but a lot of my friends goes to a big slope soaring events he is responsible for every year. I also know that he has been making his own models for ages, very nice ones too. 80's or early 90' i think he showed up in my town with 8.7 meter wingspan glider. I know he has made his own fiberglass gigantic scale eagle (the bird, not a plane) that he successfully flies during his slope soaring events. I do also remember a lot fuzz about an F-16 gear he constructed years ago that made all others look flimsy when we fly in ice and the planes seems to jump around due to uneven surface. I say this just to introduce him a little and would definitely listen to what he says as a contribution in a discussion. Whether it is right or wrong i do not know.

I do remember another good friend of mine known as olnico here on rcu recommended me to static balance my flying stabs a few years ago. I would be interested to hear him discussing this also. I think he might stayed away from this thread as he is know in a competing company with FEJ.

I really wonder if static balance would keep an improperly aerodynamic balanced stab from fluttering?

I also wonder if static balancing a perfectly aerodynamic balanced stab could increase the chance of flutter?

Is there any manufacturer out there that delivers static balanced all flying stabs?

If its not only me that wants a new thread on this matter, lets create one.

jlmaviation

My Feedback: (54)

I have not posted on this in a while. But must now. Falcon64 is partially correct and here is how. If you static balance the stab it would stay stabile in a forward motion like in his video. However here is the part that is missing. Static means not in motion. So the stab in a forward flight with no input would be balanced. Now we all know that the stab is used for controlling the plane up and down. Moving forward in flight we also have gravity which gives the plane weight and we have drag which give resistance to forward motion. Drag increases with speed. Here is the missing part he does not see. When you give an up input on the stab you have the force of gravity and drag to overcome against the stab surface. That force is transferred to the control rod and the control mounts. The mounts in my structural engineering experience is not sufficient. That mount gives way or the pin if it poorly secured to the mount will give way. At that point balancing won't save you if you cannot control up or down. You are flying thru air which has turbulance and without control on your flight surfaces you crash period. That mount could have become loose and even if that occurs you will not be able to control the plane. That flutter could of been Dubd desperately trying to pull up his jet with loose elevators. I would do the same keep trying till the end.

oistein

My Feedback: (1)

I totally agree on you that their use of honeycomb use is wrong and might well have failed by the force through the rod when pulling up. I like the use of honeycomb, but used the right way. I think falcon certainly is aware of the forces induced while pulling up, but he focused on purely another issue.

What I just don't understand is how adding weight to balance an already aerodynamic balanced stab could lead to increase the chance of flutter? This was previously mentioned, but I just can't get my head around that.

The way I understand this is that balancing the stabs will always help you to reduce stress on servos. It might not be needed if servo mount, linkage and servo is up for the task to force the stab in place, but I can't see it will harm. I would assume you could test it by logging power consumed by the elevator servos before and after balance.

thanks a lot for chiming in, it is very appreciated.

Airplanes400

My Feedback: (349)

I would think this discussion was more designed and created around the irresponsible manufacturing flaws and policies of fej which caused the crash, and less about the aerodynamics of flutter.

To end this topic and create a less painful topic for FEJ is just what FEJ wants and needs to survive this problem. So no, I don't agree that we should turn this into a mild discussion about flutter, or let FEJ off the hook.

Seems to me that the FEJ lovers are still trying to "blow-over" the real issue and get this topic derailed.

This is about FEJ, and the lack of support they continually give ALL their customers. A customer having to endure a $20,000 loss is not something to let FEJ get away with. If it were your money, I'm sure you'd be mad as hell. 'Cause one day it could be you ... if you buy their jet.

It's abundantly clear that FEJ will do nothing positive, and will go back to business-as-usual while dismissing and ignoring any conversations and concerns about this issue. Isn't that the most contemptible act of an unscrupulous and arrogant company?

dubd

I've gone from mad as hell to losing interest in the hobby all together. It's hard to bounce back when you get zero support from a company and reps you trusted...

invertmast

My Feedback: (23)

Dantley,
Ive been in your shoes before, sometimes its best to just step back and take a breather for awhile.

u2fast

My Feedback: (37)

Dantley, empty that pm mail box. It's full and I can't pm you. Don't lose interest buddy. There are new friends to be made and more fun to be had. Hang in there, barry

dubd

PM should be working now. I'm on the edge of getting out...