manks7477

So I am not a real beginner, I have been flying for 3 seasons and part of a forth, but until today I have never dared to maiden one of my planes. That changed today. About 5 years ago I got into the building side of the hobby, the second plane I built was a Great Planes .40 Corsair, my all time favorite fighter. For five years it has been hanging up in my house. I started on a PT 40, mastered that, then moved to a 4 Star .60 with OS .91 FS in the front. I was always told that a Corsair is a third airplane at the earlest, so after feeling very good with a low wing tail dragger it was time to get the Corsair in the air.

I started couple of failed attempts with the Cosair, found some basic problems with construction the first trip to the field and had to pack it in, the second time I could not get the engine to keep running for more than a minute or so. I changed the motor, changed the fuel set up and all fuel lines and had it ready to go for today.

It is a bit damp up in Toronto today, but zero wind and moderate temps, as good a day as you can get to maiden a plane. A bit of light rain held me up but once it cleared it was time to go. Engine (OS 46 FX) jumped to life right away, tuning was easy, did a complete check of the plane and took it to the runway. There was no wind so I had my choice of take off direction, I started down bringing the power up slowly, the tail lifted off, then after a few more feet I touched the elevator and she jumped into the air. Did not need much trim, but got it set up doing a few circuits and some approaches, the plane flys well, it needs some rudder turning to keep the nose on the right line - that will take some time to get used to. First landing approach is solid, no problems getting the plane on the ground and up in the air again. My second approach was not as good, the plane went long on the approach, I needed to power up fast and go around, when I hit the power the plane veered to the left, and was headed in the direction of spectators, not in the best of my control, I made the decision to ditch the plane in a split second and took the power right off, hoping that I would be able to crash softly in the light brush at the end of the runway, the plane veered on me again doing what the spectators called a knife edge about 6 inches from the ground - not a move a Corsair is known for. Then somehow it got into the right orientation and I was able to apply power and pull out of a disaster, did a circuit and landed with no issues. Thinking about what happened I think I may have done a tip stall just before I put the power up to do my go around, and I was very lucky.

Second flight: Take off was a bit premature, the plane tip stalled, I over corrected and barely kept it flying. I ran a few circuits as the wind started to pick up, did a solid approach and landed, the plane nosed over on the landing, but no dammage at all.

Overall it was fun to do my first maiden!

Analysis of the plane:

1 - I am ready to fly it, but it will take some time to get more comfortable with it.
2 - much faster turning plane than I have every flown and much more twitchy
3- need to learn how to use coordinated rudder when turning
4 - Plane has a tendency to tip stall, need to take off and land with more speed
5 - I wish I had built the wing with flaps
6 - Great intro into warbirds!
7 - Looking forward to my next project a Top-Flite Gold Edition Corsair .60 - I will build that one with flaps!
8 - Don't be afraid to fly a new plane.
9 - Every plane I have built has flown well, I don't know why I worry so much that they won't!

noveldoc

My Feedback: (2)

Would it help to convert to flaperons?

Tom

manks7477

I could try to do that, I have 2 aileron servos attached to a Y connector, I could lose the Y connector and do the flaperons, but not sure yet. I was a fun little plane to fly for sure. I am building the new one with full three part flaps and 100 degree retracts, it will be a far more scale plane - likely taking me another 5 years before I dare to fly that one!

mike109

G'day Congratulations to your Maiden Maiden. Like you I always used to ask others to maiden my new planes. My first two clubs flew Mode 1 and so I am a Mode 1 flier. But when I had to change recently to a new club I found I was in a sea of Mode 2 fliers and if I wanted new planes tested, it was going to be up to me.

I was further prompted to fly my own planes when a couple were crashed by the test pilots and I reckoned that if anyone were going to crash my new planes, it might as well be me.

Gray Beard

My Feedback: (-1)

That's a big NO on the flaperons, if it tip stalls on you now it's telling you something and theFlaperons will make your problem worse when you try to land. By being at slow speed and gassing it too fast will cause the plane to want to roll left, happens all the time. You roll on the throttle to avoid this. Any of the warbirds I have flown require a bit more air speed when landing and you fly them in close to the ground then cut power and they will settle down and land all by themselves. Do a search with the key word Flaperon and see what everyone has to say about them. It's been a topic all the last week or two and it comes up about every month. They have there place but it isn't on a warbird.
Good that you were able to maiden your own plane. I used my advanced instructor for a long tim until he had a stroke. Then I figured I was as good on the sticks as any of the other pilots so I may as well do my own. It's worked out pretty well for me over the years.

manks7477

Thanks for the advice, I am not sure I like the idea of flaperons either, I think it will make the controls a bit more sloppy at the slow speeds, best advice may be to use the power the plane has and fly a bit faster, I will have to make some adjustments on my approach as our field is not all that long and has bush and trees at both ends, trying to land short is always a challenge.

It was great to do my first maiden, I figured I built it, it looks ok, every plane I have ever built flies great and I am a decent pilot, so just go for it. The fact that I got into real trouble twice and made really good recoveries tells me I am ok to test planes out.

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

The "tip stall" is actually an uncoordinated stall, meaning you do not have the rudder correction needed for the power setting or flight attitude. This makes the A/C fly in a slip, skid, or forward slipping attitude. When this happens the rearward trailing wing will stall more than the forward leading wing, causing a roll. This is the beginning of a spin and has caused the demise of many full scale and models alike. Staying well above stall will prevent this, as will coordinating the rudder better, however very few modelers have the ability to coordinate that well without the sensory inputs. Most scale A/C need a lot more rudder input at slower speeds, especially with higher power setting due to the fact that they have less tail area to appear more scale, and they tend to be shorter coupled, so P-Factor has a lot more adverse effect.

WindGap

My Feedback: (3)

Without any prompting from his mother or I, my son had asked to take the swim test himself to get the green band.  With the green band, you're free to swim anywhere in the pool, even the deep end.  

MinnFlyer

My Feedback: (4)

I'll ditto Gene's comment - "No Flapperons!" It'll just get you into trouble.

That said, the "tip stall" you experienced on takeoff was not a tip stall, but a torque roll. Taking off with no enough speed will cause the prop's torque to roll the plane in the opposit direction. It is RARE that you can recover from this, so count your blessings.

In the future, get more ground speed before liftoff.

Congrats!

manks7477

Well I may not be sure what to call it other than one hell of a recovery! At the end of the day I was able to put the plane back in my car with nothing to work on before taking it out again, that is always a good sign - can't say the same thing for my belovid 4 Star .60 which needs some minor work - covering on the right wing was coming off in flight. Still a few flights and only about 15 min work to get everything back to 100%, I will take that any time!

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

I have to disagree. These engines don't have that much torque to cause that violent a roll. P-Factor however is very strong and will cause a severe yaw to the left, which in turn will cause an uncoordinated stall and violent roll to the left. On the go-around the pilot was low speed high AOA high RPM. This caused severe yaw to the left and some rolling most likely. The pilot most likely attempted to counter with ailerons, which most likely contributed to the imminent stall spin. When the power was reduced the airspeed had probably increased and P-factor goes away, ailerons are now effective and not countering the yaw so it rolls rt quickly to 90 degs rt. Pilot recovers and most likely adds the power slower or with some nose down and avoids the same mistake. The corrective action to this mistake is to add opposite rudder and reduce power until and drop the nose until control is regained, then come back on power a little more smoothly using rudder to counter P-factor. Manks 7477 does this at all sound like what may have happened?

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

I whole heartedly agree with GB and MF. Single surface barn door ailerons set up as flapereons will kill that airplane sooner if not later, Strip ailerons well maybe but even that is a crutch that buys you very little.

Flaperons with barn door ailerons has got no business on a first warbird if you feel the need build dedicated independant flaps. That great flying forty sized ship does not need flaps Yes it will land slightly faster than what you are use to, far better to learn the skills.

By the way flaperon abuse and problems happen all through the flight spectrum not just takeoff and climb out. There are no P factor or torque problems on approach to speak of but you can bet the fellows will be stalling and flying too slowly on approach and flaperons will agrivate things making it far more difficult and Flaperons when deployed increase adverse yaw all through the flight envelope. That is sure not gonna help you.

By the way it sounds you are doing everything right and doing a great and carefull approach to everything all along the way as well doing well. That is to be commended and congratulations.

John

JohnBuckner

My Feedback: (1)

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TedMo

Having read all of the comments made to you I wish to add mine. One of the most common causes of a plane suddenly dropping off into a spin is too much elevator which causes that stall.This is a test I make with every new plane. Get high give full up and see what it does. If it snaps reduce elevator throw. It could also be the result of a bit tailheavy. Add this test to your maiden you may profit from it.

cfircav8r

My Feedback: (1)

An A/C with the proper amount of elevator to stall power off will stall at high speed as well. I would not remove any more elevator then needed to still allow for a full stall landing. A better fix would be to use dual rates for high speed and take them off for slow speed. You need to be able to stall an A/C to safely fly it (I know it sounds counter intuitive.)