Superfast

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I just aquired an new project to work on. I ended up with an Ace Extra 230, the 96" version with a full fiberglass fuse. From what I can gather Ace Hobby originally started here in Missouri just outside Kansas City and this plane was built as a prototype apporximently 20 years ago. For being as old as it is, the plane is in great shape, it needs a little work on the fuse and a new firewall. Any ideas on what size engine this plane will need ? I am thinking a G-62 at minimum. What kind of control throws should I start with and how about the cg ?

Thanks in Advance
Scott

CAPtain232

My Feedback: (40)

The standard kit version has a built up fuse..... You got something pretty rare I would say....

The specs for the plane say a 2.6 to a 3.2 engine.... You have to remember that this really isn't a 3D plane, but rather an IMAC plane so there is no need to overpower it...... although a ZDZ 80 would be a nice combo..... Even though the span is 96", the area is only 1300 sq in..... hope this helps

Sir Fliesalot

My Feedback: (2)

I just finished building the balsa/ply/foam kit. I have a stock G-62 w/slimline muffler, 22/8 prop, 19 pounds dry, and it flys great. Plenty of power. I can climb out of hover. Lands nice and slow. The control throws are: Ailerons 1/2" up & down, Elevator 1" up & down, Rudder - as much as you can get. That's about right for low rate. Balance is 4 3/4" behind leading edge at the fuselage and it flys good at that setting. Two degrees right thrust. Thrust line, Wing and stab are set at 0 incedence.

Have fun!

v-snap

My Feedback: (18)

Are you sure it is an ACE? I know AHS and Bennit had a fiberglass version in the 96" range, back in the 80's. either way a G-62 was the engine of choice back then for this plane.
V-Snap

Tired Old Man

My Feedback: (1)

I've got an Ace 30%230 with the wood fuselage. 96" span. I fly it with a 4.2 Sachs for good performance. 24 lbs and it likes all the aileron throw it can get. Digital servos made a world of difference in the crispness and rate of roll.

Campgems

Hope some of you guys are still following this link. I just picked up a RC Extra's Extra 230 kit. Thought it might be an inexpensive way to get into the big gassers. Lots and lots of questions as soon as I opened the box. First, I've never built a foam wing before, well at least one that flew. We have a couple guys at the club who can help with this so I think I'm OK there.

What size servos should I go with? Engine? Etc

Also I'm thinking of trying to do a major weight reduction on this guy. It looks as if there are hundreds of oppoturnity to reduce the weight just by cutting some large holes in the big sheets and ply.

What are your thoughts on the removable tail feathers.

Any help is appriciated.

mikedeeney

I'm doing the same. Have you started yet? Have you gotten and feed back or help? 30% or or 33%? I have the 30% 87 inch wing span. It has beeen sitting in my closet for 14 years. I have a saito 270 twin for it, but now I'm thinking DA50 gas.

Campgems

Haven't started it yet. It's a 1/3 scale. Doing some research, the foam cores look like a potential problem. The wing is designed around a stepped 1/8" ply main spar which bolts together in the fuselage to a former. From some of the responses I've had, getting the pieces of the wing and the spar aligned is a problem. I've been considering a new wing core, one based on a tube conector vs the ply bolt together one.

The tail feather are slab construction, or built up slab vs an airfoil. I think this could be improved on.

All and all, it looks like if you put the construction on a diet, and cut down the weight, you could end up with good plane.

I'm still trying to find a hole in my garage to put a build table for this guy. I have another kit, a 1/4 scale Laser 200 from Lanair to work first.

On the engine, I think a 50 would be OK, but, and I haven't found one yet, something around a 60 to 70 would be better. This is based on some old reports as old as the kit, so maybe the current 50 would have enough power. The engine I really want it a O.S FT300 converted to ignition but with glow fuel. One of the guys at the field has that engine and a early ignition conversion in a 1/4 scale. His has a mechanical advance which seems to give him trouble, but when it right, it is a sweet engine. I would go with one of the new auto advance CDI setups.

To many projects and to little time.

Don

SticknRudder

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Anyone still following? I've got an old R/C Extra 230 33% standoff scale kit and I'm wondering if you guys are having some of the same problems I'm having with the design and the build (winter project) - won't get into a lot of detail now but we can discuss things like dimensional issues, engine selection, wing tubes, foam parts, cowl, canopy etc if anyone's interested. FYI - this model was featured in the May '86 edition of MA -a 10 page article on construction but not very informative in my opinion - see what you think.
Thanks.

mikedeeney

I have an old ace r/c extra 230 30% that has been stuck on the back burner for 18 years. I bought it and started the wings with the wood spares that now would be wing tubes. I still intend to finish it and put my saito twin 270 into it to fly. I know now that the 270 looks good and sounds good but a da 50 would be better. I have the cowl cut out and painted for the saito twin 270 so that is what I will use.

Interested to hear your thoughts on the build and plane.

Campgems

Man. I didn't realize that it has been over a year and a half since I responded to this thread. I've yet to start the build, but I did end up with O.S. 300FT that I was talking about. Trouble it that it is mounted in a Patty WagstaffExtra 300 and I'll have to fix that one up first. There are a couple issues with it that I need to fix then I'll get it in the air. Garage space is getting worse, not better.

I have scanned in the build article on this plane. If anyone want's a copy, drop me a PM and I'll send it off to you.

Since I bought this kit, I've aquired a number of other kits/ built planes/ projects. Included is a Laser 200 33% by lanier that never flew and I'm rebuilding what was not right with it. IT has a Zenoh 62. A couple other 1/4 scale arfs and a ASMP-61 that I'm about ready to start building. Two servos to find and I'm good to go.

To many projects. New years resolution. NOMOREPlanes until I build out what I have.

Don

SticknRudder

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Howdy, hope you all are enjoying the holidays. Thanks for the quick replies. First thing I noticed was the cowl included with the kits was not the same as the one pictured in the MA article - got in touch with Craig at FiberglassSpecialties and after a couple of photo swaps he sent me the right one - MA-512 (he said the one had was probably from an Ohio R/C Ultimate - how it got in there is anyone guess) - new cowl width measured 9.25",  and it can be easily persuaded down to 9.12" to match F-1 while generating a nice rise to meet the centerline of the forward deck, so that solved one problem, however the squeeze on the width of the cowl does not match the fuse lines on the drawing....but I don't think it's that important - the sides are actually parallel to the centerline.

Wing tube and socket (I nixed the extended reinforced spar idea) - contacted Tom at TnT landing Gear (by the way, both of these guys were extremely helpful and patient - I received my orders within a couple of days after placing), and we agreed on the WT-393 tube and socket. After a brief discussion with Tom, the tubes will be located directly over the CG - this is exactly 2.50" aft of the leading edge spar measured on the foam core (obviously) and 32% of the root of the completed wing. Since the spars are perpendicular to the fuse centerline they should align with the fuse taper as shown on the top view of the drawing - and they're pretty close. I layed the leading edge of the wings against a straight edge and installed the forward foam deck between them to check the taper of the deck against the wing roots (nothing is sheeted yet - all pre-cut foam is still raw) - this assembly checks with the drawing, except I need to add 0.44" to the front end to butt against F-1, and trim the same amount off the back end to maintain the position of the turtledeck and canopy. Either the foam shrunk over the years or it was cut about 1/2" short to begin with - don't know.

 

Turtledeck – this piece of foam will be replaced because it does not match the fuse side taper (or anything else). If I were to use it, it would need to be positioned 2.80” aft of the forward deck to allow enough material to be removed from the sides.

 

I’ve drawn all of the above in acad to confirm the dimensions and apparent location of these parts prior to cutting the formers and fuse construction. Based on my wings as supplied, the included angle is 8.5 degrees (or 4.25 degrees per side). Per the drawing supplied with the kit, the fuse is 8.82 degrees (4.41), the forward deck is 8.44 degrees (which will be adjusted) and the turtledeck is 9.40 degrees. I do not want to adjust the wing roots to match the fuse – I think that cutting the formers to the correct width is the better way to go. Based on the 8.50 degree fuse the resultant F-8 will be 1.38” wide (maintaining the overall length on the drawing of 52.125” from F-1 to the tail F-8) as opposed to 1.00” wide on the drawing.

 

My suggestion is that you follow the same steps that I have, to make sure that the foam decks match the wings prior to setting up the fuse. I don’t know if the foam has changed dimensionally over the years or what, and I don’t think I’m going too far overboard with all of the dimensional checks. Not looking for perfection here, just a nice easy job on the build. Kit will be powered by a new DLE 55.

 

And finally, I think I’ve got the wrong canopy too.      

eurekame2

Sticknrudder,

I obtained a ace extra 230 30% kit about 50% complete about a year ago... just took it out of of storage to start working on it... I am very interested in following your build if you decied to post it. Here are a few shots of the plane as it stands now. I don't have a game plan for completeing it yet. Just looking it over to see whats what.

mikedeeney

Looks like you are way ahead of me on the Build. I have the wings sheeted and the cowl and wheel pants painted and ready. Much more to do for me. I am going to power it with a saito twin 270. What are you going to use as a power plant?

SticknRudder

My Feedback: (2)

Looks good to me – only differences I can see are is the 1 1/2” or so of fuse aft of the edge of the cowl that joins the forward deck. The kit I have has the foam butted against F-1, I think I’ll do that too. I can see a partial former between F-2 and 3 that I don’t have either (F-2A?).

Couple of questions:
1) Does your Ace kit have stringers on the bottom of the fuse from F-4 to F-7 or is it sheeted? From pictures I’ve seen on the internet of the 230, stringers start behind F-4 but I’m not too sure how the transition from round to angular is going to look particularly in the spaces if only the covering is expected to take the place of balsa sheeting – I know it will add a little weight but it should be marginal.

2) How much gap between the bottom of F-1 and the inside of the cowl….I’m measuring a little over ½”. Is this normal?

3) Does anyone have a picture of the cowl?

With the exception of the foam and F-1 in my kit, all of the other formers appear to be very close dimensionally to the supplied plans – they will get adjusted to the 8 ½ degree taper though, so I’ll be cutting material in a couple of days and getting on with the fuse build. I’ll post a couple pictures when I get to that point.

Thanks, Iappreciate the help.

SticknRudder

My Feedback: (2)

sorry guys, question 3, Imeant a picture of the canopy.
Thanks,

eurekame2

Mikedeeney, I have not picked an engine. I will wait till after I know the weight of the plane.

Sticknrudder,

1, It has stringers from the begining of the turtle deck to the the second to the last stringer... I don't have the plans down from the attic so I don't know the former numbers.

2. I only have about a 1/4 inch at the bottom of the cowl.

3. I don't have the canopy down from the attic either. But I did think it was odd because it looked the same on on both ends. I will get it down latter this week and take a picture then.

eurekame2

I have thought about drilling lightning holes from nose to tail on the fusalge. It seems to be quite overbuilt and heavy.
I have not done any of the construction so far.. This is how i received the kit. I will also take pictures as I progress. Happy to help.

SticknRudder

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks for the additional pictures - that's exactly what Iwas looking for. My cowl is identical to yours, but Ihave at least 1/2" across the bottom that's wide open (not including that sump area, or whatever it's called)- I've got to look at that again.
I'd be interested in seeing the canopy since you've described something that's different from mine - and while you're at it, maybe you could slap it on a scale and get a overall weight on the plane as-built.
FYI - don't know what you all have heard about DL engines, Iknow they had some problems a couple of years ago, but it's my understanding those problems have been resolved. The DLE 55 is faily popular engine at a couple local clubs, and to me it looks like it's well built, castings are nice and smooth - doesn't look like they pulled it out of a chanisaw.
Thanks again,

eurekame2

Here is the canopy picture..

SticknRudder

My Feedback: (2)

Looks like Ineew to order a canopy. FiberglassSpecialties carries these.
Thanks!

SticknRudder

My Feedback: (2)

Cut a new turtledeck and I'd like to post some pictures - can someone help me figure out to do that?
Thanks[img]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Ginger/Desktop/DSC06957.jpg.jpg[/img][img]file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/Ginger/Desktop/DSC06957.jpg.jpg[/img]

mikedeeney

Below this box in the post a reply you will see "click here to upload images" click there and upload your pics. Browse your location select and upload. Let me know

mike

SticknRudder

My Feedback: (2)

Thanks Mike, took me a little while but just figured it out with the help of some past posts on same subject. I'll post the pics of the new and maybe the old turtledeck this weekend. For my first time with foam and hot wire I'm very happy with the results and might just make a new forward deck too.
Thanks again, Stick

mikedeeney

I am still in the same spot on thsi build. I will get going on it as soon as I make it a priority. Look forward to your post on your build. I will get going on this I think this spring.