franktheetank

My brother gave me his k&b because he doesn't have a use for it anymore. It is almost brand new but I put anew ring and gaskets in it already. Waiting for some cold and medium cold glow plugs to come in. I ordered them because all I have for fuel is 20/20 and 30% instead of getting a shim I did just a little work to the head and sharpened the radius of the fin on the pistion. Mostly because everyone seems to run no more than 10% in these. I kinda don't know about these engines, the smallest one I've done before this was a weed eater. I'm not planning on doing a plane, Oklahoma might not allow it after too long. So I wanted to do something neat and abnormal with it, maybe strap it to a bike (prop style) for my little brother or street luge(with like a 6inch drive wheel) just to see if it'll do anything. Lol but all else fails, I'll just put it on the shelf for show and move on. Has anyone played around with one of these like this? Also, if I can't pull a kid with it, I'm using the fuel is a steel spud canon. Good idea? Bad idea? Lol I want your thoughts on these

earlwb

They used the engines in boats and cars before too. You could build a pretty cool looking tether car and use the engine as a pull or pusher setup with a propeller on it to propell the tether car with. Free flight planes are still quite popular as it control line too.
But RC planes should still be around for a long time, it is the FPV's or drones they are mainly trying to get a handle on for control.

franktheetank

Whats a Tether car? And what's the different between free flight and drone? A camera? Because I don't know how you guys know where the plane is going, or its orientation, without a camera.. :/ seems awful hard when you can't even see it, I never had good eye sight looking up at the sun... does anyone add lights and fly at night?

earlwb

Ok way back just after WWII from around 1946 through about 1956, tether cars and also rail cars were all the rage. Everyone in the UK and the USA and Europe were all into tether cars (rail cars tended to be mostly a UK thing though). It is similar to control line airplanes in that a line is attached to the car and it runs in a circle around a track. Today the vintage tether cars can all command hefty prices when sold. But many people make them themselves and machine all the parts as needed. They still hold international competitions will all sorts of classes based on engine displacement, fuel, etc. Tether boats were also quite popular back then too. But at present tether boats are still run un the UK at a few special ponds made for that purpose. Rail cars are run on a special track and they have rails that are used to keep the cars in their lane, the cars have special wheels that mate with the rails on the track. I don't think anyone has a rail track setup anywhere anymore though.
ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tether_car
Cox used to sell many different types of tether cars for kids to use. Testors did too as well as OK, Comet, Gilbert and some others as well. You might have used one of these little .049 engine powered tether cars as a kid too.

Free flight planes were being flown way back before 1900. They started out just tossing gliders off a hill, then later rubber band powered versions came about as well as compressed air or compressed gas engine powered planes were used. Compressed air engine powered planes actually had a competitive advantage up into the 1930's for free flight compeititons. These are basically airplanes that are flown without a radio control system or control lines. The design of the free flight plane is such that it is self flying without a radio control system. They may use timers and dethermalizers on them to help limit the flywaways. ref http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_fl...model_aircraft)

FPV means first person video or visual. They use a radio controlled airplane with a video camera mounted on it and a way to send the signal back to the user. The user either uses a video monitor or wears special video goggles and can control the airplane just as though he is actually in the plane flying it. These could be quite simple as a radio control airplane using a camera and the user just flies it around recording stuff with the camera. Later they added FPV features so you can feel more like you are inside flying the plane yourself. Radio control systems can be obtained that extend the range beyond the 1 kilometer range that current RC systems can provide. They also have GPS systems and programming available to allow the plane to fly a preprogrammed course and or return automatically in case the radio signal is lost. The public has started seeing these small FPV planes as being drones too.

The commerical or military robotic planes or drones tend to be very expensive and able to fly for long distances and duration and may be armed or unarmed. They can be a FPV type of plane just like the hobbyist types too. The hobbyists tend to use the FPV airplanes whereas the other business and military and scientific groups are using the drones mostly. There can be problems with various governments passing laws and defining drones as anything with a radio control system that can fly. So the AMA has been working hard to help educate the lawmakers about it.

Some big business interests have a vested interest to have FPV and drone planes banned or prohibited as they don't want anyone flying them and recording and taking pictures of their illegal activites. There have been some cases of a guy trying out his new FPV plane and taking photos and videos of a large company deliberately polluting a river or creek, or a company staging illegal hunts of protected animals, and so on. These have made the news in the past. Of course other people don't want them flying around and taking pics of their illegal growing plots either. The public is afraid that someone might use them to take pics of them in a compromising situation too. Peeping toms is another problem and paparazzi another problem with them too.


Flying at night is a popular RC flying club pastime too. We did it many years ago Just using Cylume glow sticks taped or rubber banded onto a RC plane. Nowadays many folks use LED light strips on their planes.


You can see some tether cars and boats in this website that use the model airplane engine with a propeller to propell the car in a circle. They are likely the easiest to build in comparison with the more sophisticated tether cars and boats. http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_models.htm


You can see the tether cars in use here:

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2...-in-the-1940s/

earlwb

oh yeah here is one of my tether cars a replica of a classic from that era a long time ago.
It uses a McCoy .19 red head car engine in it.

[img]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps1419d8af.jpg[/img]


[img]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...psbc1db4a3.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps8d6f31a6.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/g...ps6953896b.jpg[/img]

franktheetank

Wow, this is great info! How fast does one of these .19 cars run?

earlwb

Well, mine maybe does 80mph or so but...
World Records

[TABLE="class: wikitable"]
[TR]
[TH]Class[/TH]
[TH]Date[/TH]
[TH]Driver[/TH]
[TH="colspan: 2"]Speed[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TH]km/h[/TH]
[TH]mph[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WMCR I (1.5cm³)[/TD]
[TD]December 9, 2006[/TD]
[TD] Jan-Erik Falk[/TD]
[TD]268.697[/TD]
[TD]166.961[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WMCR II (2.5cm³)[/TD]
[TD]May 31, 2008[/TD]
[TD] Priit Hoyer[/TD]
[TD]283.942[/TD]
[TD]176.433[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WMCR III (3.5cm³)[/TD]
[TD]August 13, 2004[/TD]
[TD] Mart Sepp[/TD]
[TD]293.375[/TD]
[TD]182.295[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WMCR IV (5cm³)[/TD]
[TD]July 1, 2012[/TD]
[TD] Jan-Erik Falk[/TD]
[TD]310.708[/TD]
[TD]193.065[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]WMCR V (10cm³)[/TD]
[TD]March 29, 2009[/TD]
[TD] Gualtiero Picco[/TD]
[TD]344.959[/TD]
[TD]214.358[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Here is the world record run that the Russians did in 2008.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_snPHBL68Z4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_snPHBL68Z4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuGvWRY41wk of course this video gives you an idea as to the speeds and why they seldom video tape the cars actually moving, they become too fast for the video camera to watch much less us humans.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42IaRZmmr3k

franktheetank

Wow!!!! Lol that is incredible

franktheetank

So these have spark ignition systems?? Can I convert mine for one??

earlwb

The old time engines used spark ignition but the more modern ones are glow fuel or model diesel fuel depending on the class they race in.
The pics of mine is a glow engine version.

Yes you can convert your engine to spark ignition instead of glow. CH-Ignitions can provide the items needed for the conversion. Or you can convert it yourself. You can use tiny 1/4x32 spark plugs, and a ignition module like from RCexl or CH-Ignitions and a small neodimum magnet and a timing sensor. CH_Ignitions probably offers the best deal as they can make special rings for the magnet and timing hall effect sensor to fit your engine.

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Earl. do you remember the Half Pint Racer, I had one as a kid in the 50s. You bolted an .049 engine where the left rear wheel went and bolt the wheel to the engine. In my case it was Spitfire .049 which I still have. You had to launch it pretty fast or it would stall.

PS, I found a picture of it although it's reversed. Mine wasn't that bright of a red and had no number. I don't remember but I may have painted it myself.

franktheetank

Here's a question just off topic, what makes the engines rated 2-4 HP so much stronger than these 1hp and less?

earlwb

You sort of answered your own question.a 2-4hp engine is more powerful than a 1 hp engine.

But with the engines, the manufacturers do all sorts of arcane things to make their engine seem more powerful to the buyers. It is all marketing stuff.
The basic trick is to use a slightly more thin propeller which is a little too small for practical uses, and then use more nitro methane, and run the engine without the muffler so they can get the maximum RPMs that the motor can put out. Then they calculate its HP based on that. In real life with a realistic sized propeller and a muffler on the engine, it won't even come close to their advertised HP claim. Many of those so called 2 hp engines don't usually put out much more power than a regular engine does with all things being more equal.

earlwb

Sorry Hobbsy, I was a little too young for them at that time.

Jim Thomerson

I've flown stock K&B 4011s with a venturi and Super Tigre needle valve on several control line precision aerobatic airplanes. 10% nitro, 20% oil, 11 x 5 APC released at 9,700. I was very pleased with them.

They are the engine of choice for control line Texas Quicke Rat race. Here is link.
http://www.mecoa.com/cust/hull/index.htm

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

Why did you sharpen radius of the fin on the piston?

CR

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Earl, I'm just a 71 year old kid, so you're a younger kid.

franktheetank

I didn't make a sharp tip tho I did narrow the overall with, also shaped it a little more to toss the fuel/air mix in the cylinder a little better. The main reason wasto lose ccompression. But I put just a couple drops of 2 cycle oil in the cylinder to keep the ring lubed and has a lot of compression, even just flipping it by hand.. but that's not normal for a dyke ring is it?

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

I thought the idea of the baffle on the piston was to keep the intake charge from rushing across the cylinder & out the exhaust port. Sharpenig the top of the baffle implies leakage, although it might help to direct the charge a bit. Would you might explaining further?

TIA,

CR

franktheetank

I didn't file it down, just took the intake side of it and shaped it more of a scoop. Not by much anyways. Butit likely was a stupid move but so is polishing the counter on the crank. I wanna reshape the top of the intake opening on the crankshaft trap door but I figureiI would really toss it off balance removing that steel. :/ a guy once told me you'd never be able to completely balance a single cylinder engine.. I never tried..

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Do any of you more "ekspurter" K&B fans know which K&B .40 has a flat topped piston. I have a Davis Diesel head for one but no engine.

earlwb

The K&B 6.5cc engines has no baffle on the pistons. Those are .40 displacement engines as well and the DDD head may very well fit them. I don't know as I don't have one at this time to try it on.

If I remember right K&B might have made what looked like a K&B .40 4011 engine. But it had the newer more robust crankcase front end on it. I am thinking it was the model 4050, 4060 ABC version. But I could be wrong. I think they used something more like the PDP porting on the engine similar to the K&B Twister engine. It is in between being a cross flow scavenged and a Schnuerle ported engine.

I also have one of those DDD diesel heads for a K&B .40 too.

Charley

My Feedback: (2)

Why don't you guys call Davis Diesel and ask him?

CR

Hobbsy

My Feedback: (102)

Thanks CR, that's actually how I found out what it's for, in the Everything Diesel Forum here.

dghmukwen

Wow, this is great info!