WACO YMF
07-06-2013, 06:45 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
All,
Anthony has it correct, the center section ribs curve up from the bottom as shown in the pictures he posted. The picture that shows it best is the rear view of his plane. The white w/blue trim plane is NC 14081, a 1997 Waco Classics YMF, Ser # F5-009, the last one made from the original 1935 plans. If you look close at the bottom of the wing over Debbie’s head (Robin is in the back seat), you can see the curve goes up (enlarge the picture to max). The view of the top of the wing shows no downward curve in that area, just the smooth natural flow of the airfoil matching the outer panels. Anthony – Thanks for posting the pictures.
TMAC – I hate to say it after all the effort you have put into your plane (it is great looking) your center section airfoil is wrong, the opposite of what it should be. I would not worry about it and go ahead and fly it (most people won’t notice except that persnickety judge
we all know). Peter has stated that there is a mistake in the center section airfoil and he should correct it in future kits. Maybe he will make a mini kit and send you a new center section to build and install so you can enter some scale contests and not be downgraded for the error, he seems like the kind of guy that would do that. It seems to me it would be easier to build a new section than to modify the existing section.
Anthony has it correct, the center section ribs curve up from the bottom as shown in the pictures he posted. The picture that shows it best is the rear view of his plane. The white w/blue trim plane is NC 14081, a 1997 Waco Classics YMF, Ser # F5-009, the last one made from the original 1935 plans. If you look close at the bottom of the wing over Debbie’s head (Robin is in the back seat), you can see the curve goes up (enlarge the picture to max). The view of the top of the wing shows no downward curve in that area, just the smooth natural flow of the airfoil matching the outer panels. Anthony – Thanks for posting the pictures.
TMAC – I hate to say it after all the effort you have put into your plane (it is great looking) your center section airfoil is wrong, the opposite of what it should be. I would not worry about it and go ahead and fly it (most people won’t notice except that persnickety judge
we all know). Peter has stated that there is a mistake in the center section airfoil and he should correct it in future kits. Maybe he will make a mini kit and send you a new center section to build and install so you can enter some scale contests and not be downgraded for the error, he seems like the kind of guy that would do that. It seems to me it would be easier to build a new section than to modify the existing section.
07-06-2013, 11:46 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
Barth 1/3 Waco Incidence
Great comments from everyone. I like the way my center section looks, and it will stay as is. Hope to build a good looking plane that flies well. No thoughts toward scale competition.
For upper setup, when I get to it, I'm following Tmac's advice and building a little fixture to hold the upper center section in place. I will break down and buy a 36 inch bar for the Robart, which I should already have done (That could change everything). I will make the fixture rigid enough to keep everything in position with wings plugged in. Then I will set the wing incidence for both L & R and take what I get at the center section. The wings are doing lots more than the center.
Regards all,
Mike Hopkins
Waco Brotherhood # 132
Great comments from everyone. I like the way my center section looks, and it will stay as is. Hope to build a good looking plane that flies well. No thoughts toward scale competition.
For upper setup, when I get to it, I'm following Tmac's advice and building a little fixture to hold the upper center section in place. I will break down and buy a 36 inch bar for the Robart, which I should already have done (That could change everything). I will make the fixture rigid enough to keep everything in position with wings plugged in. Then I will set the wing incidence for both L & R and take what I get at the center section. The wings are doing lots more than the center.
Regards all,
Mike Hopkins
Waco Brotherhood # 132
07-06-2013, 12:51 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
Just founf out on facebook today is Bill's birthday, I don't want to get in trouble asking for the age, but it probably took a fan to blow all the candles off.
Happy birthday chief and many more.
Happy birthday chief and many more.
07-06-2013, 01:06 PM
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: hopkimf
Barth 1/3 Waco Incidence
Great comments from everyone. I like the way my center section looks, and it will stay as is. Hope to build a good looking plane that flies well. No thoughts toward scale competition.
For upper setup, when I get to it, I'm following Tmac's advice and building a little fixture to hold the upper center section in place. I will break down and buy a 36 inch bar for the Robart, which I should already have done (That could change everything). I will make the fixture rigid enough to keep everything in position with wings plugged in. Then I will set the wing incidence for both L & R and take what I get at the center section. The wings are doing lots more than the center.
Regards all,
Mike Hopkins
Waco Brotherhood # 132
Barth 1/3 Waco Incidence
Great comments from everyone. I like the way my center section looks, and it will stay as is. Hope to build a good looking plane that flies well. No thoughts toward scale competition.
For upper setup, when I get to it, I'm following Tmac's advice and building a little fixture to hold the upper center section in place. I will break down and buy a 36 inch bar for the Robart, which I should already have done (That could change everything). I will make the fixture rigid enough to keep everything in position with wings plugged in. Then I will set the wing incidence for both L & R and take what I get at the center section. The wings are doing lots more than the center.
Regards all,
Mike Hopkins
Waco Brotherhood # 132
Mike,I have been lying in bed and going over my previous posts in my head and realised what a terrible mistake that I have made. The centre section having a Greater AOA than the rest of the wing means that it has to be set at a LESS of an angle so as to get the required angle at the outer sections. Sorry for my misinformation.
tmac..
07-06-2013, 01:21 PM
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: skylarkmk1
All,
Anthony has it correct, the center section ribs curve up from the bottom as shown in the pictures he posted. The picture that shows it best is the rear view of his plane. The white w/blue trim plane is NC 14081, a 1997 Waco Classics YMF, Ser # F5-009, the last one made from the original 1935 plans. If you look close at the bottom of the wing over Debbie’s head (Robin is in the back seat), you can see the curve goes up (enlarge the picture to max). The view of the top of the wing shows no downward curve in that area, just the smooth natural flow of the airfoil matching the outer panels. Anthony – Thanks for posting the pictures.
TMAC – I hate to say it after all the effort you have put into your plane (it is great looking) your center section airfoil is wrong, the opposite of what it should be. I would not worry about it and go ahead and fly it (most people won’t notice except that persnickety judge we all know). Peter has stated that there is a mistake in the center section airfoil and he should correct it in future kits. Maybe he will make a mini kit and send you a new center section to build and install so you can enter some scale contests and not be downgraded for the error, he seems like the kind of guy that would do that. It seems to me it would be easier to build a new section than to modify the existing section.
All,
Anthony has it correct, the center section ribs curve up from the bottom as shown in the pictures he posted. The picture that shows it best is the rear view of his plane. The white w/blue trim plane is NC 14081, a 1997 Waco Classics YMF, Ser # F5-009, the last one made from the original 1935 plans. If you look close at the bottom of the wing over Debbie’s head (Robin is in the back seat), you can see the curve goes up (enlarge the picture to max). The view of the top of the wing shows no downward curve in that area, just the smooth natural flow of the airfoil matching the outer panels. Anthony – Thanks for posting the pictures.
TMAC – I hate to say it after all the effort you have put into your plane (it is great looking) your center section airfoil is wrong, the opposite of what it should be. I would not worry about it and go ahead and fly it (most people won’t notice except that persnickety judge
we all know). Peter has stated that there is a mistake in the center section airfoil and he should correct it in future kits. Maybe he will make a mini kit and send you a new center section to build and install so you can enter some scale contests and not be downgraded for the error, he seems like the kind of guy that would do that. It seems to me it would be easier to build a new section than to modify the existing section.tmac
07-06-2013, 01:26 PM
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: aminiet
Just founf out on facebook today is Bill's birthday, I don't want to get in trouble asking for the age, but it probably took a fan to blow all the candles off.
Happy birthday chief and many more.
Just founf out on facebook today is Bill's birthday, I don't want to get in trouble asking for the age, but it probably took a fan to blow all the candles off.
Happy birthday chief and many more.
Bill , Waco Brother #1
07-06-2013, 01:37 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: hopkimf
Improved sketch. It's for real. higher incidence on root rib. it's subtle. The sketch was not to scale but if you look close, you can see it. Enough of this? PRO/E graphics is pretty handy. Takes just a few minutes.
mike H
#132
Improved sketch. It's for real. higher incidence on root rib. it's subtle. The sketch was not to scale but if you look close, you can see it. Enough of this? PRO/E graphics is pretty handy. Takes just a few minutes.
mike H
#132
I made a mistake on quoted post, And my wording wasn't great. The pictures are right though.
These sketches were supposed to show center section ROOT RIBS at a LOWER incidence then those at center. You can see it in rear view. If the sketches didn't come along, you can look at the post above.
Another thing I should have made clear was in the build of both wings. I built them on the plan, but not with the spars right on the plan. Spars were sitting on dummy spars right on the plan to lift everything above the plan. Made it easier to fit pieces to ribs. When I put on the TE, it was essentially flat full length, which made me feel the entire wing incidence was constant.
Regards,
MH 132
07-06-2013, 02:41 PM
RE: WACO YMF
The center section issue will not hurt the flight performance at all.
I remembered Michael (WacoDream) saying he just purchased a 33% Barth kit and a Moki radial and was wanting to have it ready for Top Gun next year. Hopefully he reads this before he starts building his kit. Easier to correct in the beginning. That grumpy older scale judge will get him
Too many scale issues with the AMR kit is what kept me from going nuts with my plane and just doing the details to satisfy #1 (Me). These large Waco's are impressive no matter how much detail you throw into them.
Later!!
Anthony
I remembered Michael (WacoDream) saying he just purchased a 33% Barth kit and a Moki radial and was wanting to have it ready for Top Gun next year. Hopefully he reads this before he starts building his kit. Easier to correct in the beginning. That grumpy older scale judge will get him
Too many scale issues with the AMR kit is what kept me from going nuts with my plane and just doing the details to satisfy #1 (Me). These large Waco's are impressive no matter how much detail you throw into them.
Later!!
Anthony
07-07-2013, 01:26 AM
RE: WACO YMF
ORIGINAL: Errol Levin
tmac48
You have an absolute work of art there. My compliments
Errol. #204
tmac48
You have an absolute work of art there. My compliments
Errol. #204
tmac.
07-07-2013, 01:57 AM
Thread Starter
RE: WACO YMF
Just be sure to build your model so that it matches your documentation. I can't believe that people who are competing at this level don't understand this. Your model can be built wrong in all the Monday morning experts opinions, but if it is built to match the documentation then Gentlemen, we have a winner.
Bill, Waco Brother #1
Bill, Waco Brother #1
07-07-2013, 04:09 PM
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RE: WACO YMF
Barth YMF 1/3
A couple days ago I put the main landing gear on to make sure it was right. Had pre-drilled all former holes before gluing on. The design uses 16 screws, nuts and washers. It all fit, and everything was level laterally. I'm not a big fan of metric hardware. It's fine, but I hate mixing. So I tossed the kit supplied fasteners and replaced it with hex socket head screws. Easier to wrench than kit supplied low slot head screws. Looking good until I tried a trial fit of lower center wing. It fit before; not now. Hit socket head screws. Now I know why kit supplied were used. They don't show on plan and the fix is flat head US or some special head shape. Small detail.
The Barth kit is without a doubt, the best I have ever built. Excellent design, excellent plans, and everything fits per plan if built right. The ring that goes over firewall fit like a glove. Could not have been better.
Next effort is in locating servos, etc. inside. Got some good recommendations from Peter. Then the stringers. Hope I can get them straight. In the past on a Waco UPF-7 from I'Kon, it was a nightmare. Just bought new Permagrit slot cutters, best tool in my toolbox. Can you tell I really love building this kit?
Mike Hopkins
Waco Brotherhood # 132
A couple days ago I put the main landing gear on to make sure it was right. Had pre-drilled all former holes before gluing on. The design uses 16 screws, nuts and washers. It all fit, and everything was level laterally. I'm not a big fan of metric hardware. It's fine, but I hate mixing. So I tossed the kit supplied fasteners and replaced it with hex socket head screws. Easier to wrench than kit supplied low slot head screws. Looking good until I tried a trial fit of lower center wing. It fit before; not now. Hit socket head screws. Now I know why kit supplied were used. They don't show on plan and the fix is flat head US or some special head shape. Small detail.
The Barth kit is without a doubt, the best I have ever built. Excellent design, excellent plans, and everything fits per plan if built right. The ring that goes over firewall fit like a glove. Could not have been better.
Next effort is in locating servos, etc. inside. Got some good recommendations from Peter. Then the stringers. Hope I can get them straight. In the past on a Waco UPF-7 from I'Kon, it was a nightmare. Just bought new Permagrit slot cutters, best tool in my toolbox. Can you tell I really love building this kit?
Mike Hopkins
Waco Brotherhood # 132
07-07-2013, 05:09 PM
RE: WACO YMF
hopkimf I replaced these bolts and nuts also. What I did was use 3 mil cap head bolts with T nuts ( flush fitting nuts ) on the side that the center section is mated up to. PHOTOS PHOTOS PHOTOS Always good to post photos for all to see if you have the time and means.
tmac.
tmac.
07-08-2013, 12:14 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
Happy Birthday Bill - and Thank You so much for starting this thread and supporting this Brotherhood It's been a gift for sure. I hope this is your best year yet!
07-08-2013, 12:23 AM
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RE: WACO YMF
Nut thanks for the suggestion and thinking of me. I've been tracking this wing issue and will keep it in mind for sure on my Barth build. At the moment I'm in the Pica build and having some fun. Thought I would finish this one out this month and then move to the big daddy 33% in August. Should give me 10 months to get ready. I know Top Gun will come before we know it. I'm still buzzing from the show last month and seeing all the amazing builds. Hopefully I'll make it for 2014 but not going to rush.
I took a stab at the panels today - made from Aluminum per the good suggestion of brother Robert. It was a nice build day and it feels good to get the first side together. Everything is tacked in place and I will do some more shaping for sure to get the lines a little tighter.
I took a stab at the panels today - made from Aluminum per the good suggestion of brother Robert. It was a nice build day and it feels good to get the first side together. Everything is tacked in place and I will do some more shaping for sure to get the lines a little tighter.
07-08-2013, 03:44 PM
RE: WACO YMF
Nut,you have built a beautiful model,one that any modeler would be more than happy to call their own and not only that but you have built it twice while I'm still trying to get my first finished. ( I will swap you mine in exchange for your MOKI [:@] )
tmac.
tmac.
07-08-2013, 03:59 PM
RE: WACO YMF
tmac,
I don't have a Moki, that would be icing on the cake for sure. I have a 3W-157 up front. It really pulls the Waco along and the sound is pretty good for a twin 2-stroke.
BTW: Thanks for the compliments.
Later!!
Anthony
I don't have a Moki, that would be icing on the cake for sure. I have a 3W-157 up front. It really pulls the Waco along and the sound is pretty good for a twin 2-stroke.
BTW: Thanks for the compliments.
Later!!
Anthony