Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

I am now looking into building the AMC 100" span Ugly Stick Twin. Has anyone any information on the build or the kit.


http://www.amr-rc.com/index.php?path...=AMR&langue=en

Thanks,
Bobby of Maui

box car

you mean AMR

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Ken,
Your correct...AMR.
Bob

Lone Star Charles

If you do decide to build this, please consider a build thread. The AMR kits look like very well done kits. Also, the twin you are considering appears to be a real good candidate to be converted to a Go-Pro platform on the nose.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Charles,
I am in the process of acquiring all the equipment for the model. I've the engines ordered from Magnum R/C: EME 35's with electric start. I'm selling off a bunch of hobby to fund the project and also buy what I'll need for he build. I plan on using a Spectrum 18 channel Tx & Rx, so that I will be able to auto start the engines. I will use HD1501 servo's and I've had good luck with these in the past year. Yes...a GoPro will be in the nose and I will also need to make the model transportable in my VW van. You gotta get it to the flying field some how. Two Roto 20 oz. fuel tanks, two electronic engine cut-offs, and I'll need A123 batteries for the electric engine start. This is not a simple project...but one I'm looking forward too. Once the kit itself is inhouse...I'll start the build here.
Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

box car

Bobby you have a great plan. Hope you post your build here it should be a fun one good reading, good luck.

Lone Star Charles

I'm looking forward to seeing the build.

jbarnes

They fly great. I went with twin DLE55's on mine. A few years old but still a fun plane to fly. Jerry.

jbarnes

box car

very nice looking plane

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Jerry,

That is a very nice looking model and I like your spinners & cowls too. Does the kit come as a trike, or did you add a nose wheel assy. ? At first I thought of using three 20cc gas engines, for I've built a three engine Ugly Stick before and it was a real rocket ship. But with auto start EME 35's available...decided to go this route. Did you have any issues with the model in the air and how does if fly with two 55 cc gas engines?
Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

jbarnes

Hey Bobby, the kit comes as a tail dragger. I added a Fultz (sp?) nose gear as I felt a twin tail dragger would be difficult to control on a hard surface due to engine speed variance. You have to build the nose cone also as there is nothing in the kit to build that either. I run my motors on a centralized fuel tank in the fuse (32 oz) and a central IBEC running off the receiver. If you look at the pictures carefully you can see where I added a strut from the bottom of the fuse to the nacelles to give some additional support for the heavier engines. I put the rudder servo in the tail which was a mistake as I still needed additional nose weight for proper CG. Put your rudder servo in the fuse. Engine sync seems to be impossible to maintain. Even though I've used the throttle curve feature to sync the engines you'll find they vary day to day due to weather, earths rotation, I'm not sure. You will notice some yaw when the engines are off more than 500 rpm which will require some rudder adjustment. I fly at 6K feet so the extra power of the 55's is not extreme. I would guess your 35's at sea level may be more extreme than my 55's flying a mile high. Good luck and let me know if you need anything else. Jerry.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Jerry,
Thanks for the information about your Giant Twin Stick. I'm undecided as to making my model a tail dragger or install a nose wheel. What surprised me was that your model came out tail heavy...I suspected it was nose heavy with both your 55's mounted, aluminum spinners, cowls, nose fairing and a nose gear. That is some good information and I wonder how tail heavy your airframe came out to. Do you remember how much lead you placed into your nose area or were you able to balance the model with just battery placement?

I plan on running two large capacity Nickel batteries with my Rx and a Yellow Box for all my servo's and Rx to connect into. I've the Yellow Box in house and some of my servo's, but not all. I've 6" DuBro tires I planed on using, the air filled ones and mount my rudder servo's within the rudders. I may just rig up a bell crank in the tail now, to drive the rudders, and set the rudder iservo in the forward part of the fuselage. I may also do the same for my elevator servo's, running side supported 4/40 rods out to the elevator halves, but I'll know more once the airframe is being built.

I do plan on making my tail feathers a bit different then yours. I will need to make my tail removable, so I will build and install split rudders, like on the L18 (Load Star-shape [I like how they look]). This way I can remove my tail feathers, main gear and slide the fuselage into my van more easily. Everything is still up into the air on exactly what I will build, but these are my current thoughts.

I like the single fuel tank idea you used...would you be so kind and post a picture of your fuel tank installation and plumbing? I was planning on using two 20 oz. Roto fuel tanks (one in each nacelle), but the Roto fuel tanks they sell, only have a single fuel pick up. Maybe it will work if I place...say a 6 oz. header tank in front of the main fuel tank, with dual pick ups...with the larger Roto fuel tank feeding the smaller header tank. A few helicopter guys run small header fuel tanks this way, with no issues with fuel draw. A lot of guys in our club use Roto fuel tanks and these fuel tanks seem to solve all the fuel tank and fuel draw problems...especially with gas engines. They are not cheap...but they solve one evolving problem with gas engine instillations.


Gus at Magnum R/C notified me today, that both my electric start EME 35cc gas engines are in the mail. I will call AMR today and order the kit. Its just a bit over $550.00 shipped to Hawaii and can't wait to start the build.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

jbarnes

Hey Bob, I've built three AMR sticks and all of them come out tail heavy even when I put the rudder servo in the fuse. The kit comes with all the hardware to mount the servo in the fuse. I was sure the bird would be nose heavy so I put it in the tail.
I added only about six ounces in the nose cone, but like you said I also had the nose gear up front also. I don't use dedicated batteries on my planes. All my batteries are mounted in the fuse for easy removal.
As far as the fuel tank goes I simply T'ed the supply line to a set of MPI fuel disconnects. Each wing half has a fuel line and a single din connector that is attached during assembly. The nacelles are plenty large enough to accommodate your fuel tanks if you decide to use separate tanks. There is no need for header tanks you just have to flip a few more times to get the fuel drawn to the motor before they pop on choke.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Jerry,
I ordered my kit today, and I was informed that it will be here in one week to ten days. Considering its coming from Eastern Canada, I was pleased with their shipping. The only thing that was kind of hard to swallow, is the shipping charges to Hawaii...$128.19...ouch! But paradise is not perfect and high shipping charges are the norm now for Hawaii and Alaska. Once upon a time, all shipping charges by U.S.P.S. were standard for all the states. No matter where you lived, every one paid the same price...but no longer. A couple of years ago, Fed-X ,UPS and all the other guys doubled their shipping charges to Hawaii and now its the norm to pay nearly 1/2 or more of the purchase price to get hobby delivered, especially ARF models. We do not have any real hobby shops on Maui...but they do in Honolulu.

My engines have yet to arrive, but are on the way. I'm still selling off some hobby to finance this build, but its going to be an involved build and will take some time, so I'm in no rush right now.

I liked your single fuel tank instillation...and I must add, you are a very detailed & clean builder. Nice work. Where do I purchase the inline fuel quick disconnects? I'm going to do what you did and mount the fuel tank on the CG, and plumb both engines to one 32 oz. fuel tank. I've yet to buy the Roto fuel tank, and I wonder if a 32 oz. fuel tank will be large enough for two 35cc gas engines?

I also liked your nose cone and your attachments to the fuse. Its a simple and sweet instillation + easy to remove.

I also liked the electronic plug you used...what make is it, how did you set it up...and where can I buy it. I really liked how clean of an installation it is and simple to rig up the model for flight. Very sweet indeed.

How large is your horizontal elevator? I need to know its length and how wide it is, so I can draw up my split rudders. I can start now by building these up, or at least get them drawn, so once my kit arrives, I can get going on the elevator build. I am also trying to find a larger size 90 degree bell-crank to drive my rudders. All the current bell-cranks I have were removed from my models I built in the 70 ~80's, before we all went over to dual aileron servo's. In day's past we all used just one servo and drove our split ailerons with a 90 degree bell-cranks. Boy have times changed...but if you know were I can purchase a 90 degree bell-crank for my split rudders, I would be one happy camper.

At present...I'm going to build a tail dragger. I've had good luck here at sea level with getting my throttle responses coordinated well enough to fly twins with out any issues. Currently I fly three twins...a A26, P-38 and the M.E.N. trainer twin (this last twin is over 20 years old and still flying). The P-38 was built two years ago and the A26 was an ARF, by VQ, built last year.

I've been building Ugly Sticks for 35+ years. My first one was a Larry Lenard kit, the Little Stick, powered by a Super Tiger .23. Then I moved up to installing a K&B .40 onto the same airframe and I've had at least a couple of dozen over the years. From single engine, to two and three engines and even a couple of bi-plane sticks. I've only one bi-plane kit left and of course, the new kit I'm going to build. No matter what size or configuration Ugly Stick I've built...all flew very well and one of the most predictable flying R/C models ever designed.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

jbarnes

Hey Bobby, forget your airplanes, what I see is those nice palm trees on your driveway. Its still snowing here. My Stick is hanging in the garage. I'll have to get you a measurement of the horizontal stab. The electrical plugs you see I built from 9 pin din connectors. But, I know Tail Dragger RC is selling ready made ones that I'd use if I was to do it again. The fuel disconnects are MPI and should be available from your local hobby shop or ordered online. They appear to be retract plugs with a larger diameter tubing. And yes I like neat when it comes to wiring. I look at some of these guys planes with wires going every which way and I wonder how they ever debug a problem. All my wiring is put in nylon loom and bundled with indicators as to which wire is running in the bundle. On the hatch I record each channel on the receiver to what control surface the channel is attached to. You don't see it in the picture but each wire to the receiver is correspondingly marked so there is no guess work of what runs where. I've got 17 planes so documenting what goes where is a necessity. Wish I was sitting in your driveway right now! Have a good weekend. Jerry.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Jerry,
I found out where I can buy the MPI fuel disconnects and Troy Built Models handles them. I need to know the diameter of your fuel tubing, for the MPI fittings come in 3mm, 4mm, 5mm and 6mm. I use the gas the yellow gas tubing and I get it at the local NAPA store. I guess I'll just ask T.B.M. for what they recommend I use. I'll use bulkhead fittings for the fuse, like you did and that will clean up that end of the fuel delivery system. I still will need to find the electrical plugs, but I've yet to look up Tail Dragger RC.

I must admit...my wire hook ups can use a serious upgrading...the picture below is of my F6F. This was my first 30cc class model, an ESM F6F. I know it looks like chaos in there, but it worked ok for me. I had four batteries, two 3300ma for the Rx, and two 2000ma for the ignition. The model built so tail heavy, there was little I could do. So I added large capacity Nickel Hydride batteries up against the fire wall and the two smaller ones out over the engine. I do color code all my wires, so that I can trace them and know where to reconnect them. I use color ty-raps to do the chore, and it works for me.

I'm going to do a little research on the electrical plugs and get back to you on what I find. I'm not sure how many servo's I'll have in the wing...but I know for sure, I will have at least three, one for throttle, one for choke and one for flaperons. I may need two for flaperons...and plan on using HD 1501's and they put out 236 inch oz. of torque. Do you feel one on the flaperons will be ok...or should I plan on running two servo's for this application. This is my larges model to date and not exactly sure what the safe requirements will be.

Maui is beautiful and the air is the cleanest in all the world. Where I live in North West Maui, we get trade winds almost all the time...and the winds come out of the Artic Ocean. The air gets washed and cleaned long before it arrives here. The north end of Maui gets a bit of rain too, so every thing is green and lush. We have had more rain then usual this year...so my gardens are going crazy. I fertilized with fish oil this year and my gardens are going nuts with all the rain.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Jerry,

I went over to Tail Dragger R/C and picked up my two wing servo connectors...with the needed plugs already soldered in for me. Thanks for the heads up on this one and it will really clean up my model.

I've yet to contact T.B.M. on the MPI fuel line quick disconnects, but I'll try tomorrow or if not tomorrow, Monday morning for sure. I just don't know what size to buy yet, but T.B.M. has the goodies. And I ordered a 32 oz. fuel tank from Roto, for my fuel system.

Just a thought...I may build out my firewalls a bit,1-1/2 Inches more forward and do away with any lead in the nose. What's your feeling on this?

I also am planning on installing my servo's in the rudders themselves. Do you think HS225MG servo's will be enough power for the rudders? The HS-225MG has 66 inch/oz. of torque @ 6 volts. They are light and dependable, and wonder if they will do the job, with split rudders? What do you think?

I'm now wondering how much covering I'm going to need for this model. Do you have an memory of how many rolls of covering you used? I have pass thoughts to Monokote, Fabric and Sigs S**** coverings w/paint. I don't have a clue, but I'm leaning to covered fabric, iron on covering. With a model this size...no matter what I chose...it ain't going to be cheap.

Thanks for all your help and input,
Aloha,
Bob

jbarnes

Hey Bob, I don't think 66 oz is enough horse power for those rudders. I'm not sure I'm following you completely on the split rudders but if you build two of them just like the kit has you'll need a larger servo. If you split those rudders you are going to need a robust horizontal stab. The one in the kit is a simple slab of 1/4" balsa.
You are bound to have a very heavy tailed plan with those twin rudders and two servo's in the back. I think the idea of extending the nacelles is a good plan.
You mentioned that your motors will be electric start. You may want to consider adding a strut like I did from under the nacelle to the fuse to add extra support for the wings. I'm guessing your 30's with electric start will be as heavy as my DLE55's. I'm thinking you will have a very heavy bird with all the electric start options and the batteries for the electric start plus the added weight of two rudders. I'd make that rear end really strong with all that air blowing by two big rudders and twisting that horizontal stab.

As far as covering goes, I don't remember how much I used. My bird is covered with Blue and White Solartex. I like the cloth coverings but you do need to hit all your ply areas with hair spray prior to applying the solartex as it does not stick well to ply. You should also seal the covering with water based poly. Cloth gets very dirty if its not sealed or painted.
Jerry.

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Hay Jerry,
I planned on making a built up elevator and rudders, from 1/4 balsa stock and spruce. It will be lighter then a solid slab of balsa and stronger too. I've done this on other models with success, and once I receive my kit, I'll know more of what I want to do.

I will build out my engine nacelles, and once I see the kit up close, I'll know how to go about it. I will most probably build the nacelles out 1.5" and add spinners as you did, but wood props. I'm not a fan of plastic props, since I witnessed a club member lose a few fingers...that scared the heck out of me.

Troy Built Models does not sell MPI plugs and quick disconnects...so I will need to find a source for these.

The rudders will not be the same shape of the kit, but more like you see on a PV-1 Ventura Naval Bomber. Built up will be 1/3 the weight of solid balsa and stronger too, with harder wood on the bottom. Your correct, and I may use servo's with more power for the rudders. I was typed in this airframe (L18) and flew it for a while on a Fed-X run out of New Mexico, back in the 80's.

TailDragger R/C has my wing servo connectors inbound to me.

Thanks for all the input,
Aloha,
Bob

jbarnes

Those aren't plastic props, they are carbon fiber, cut cleaner than plastic!

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

OK Guys,
The kit has arrived and so have the EME engines. I'm redoing my garage a bit, to fit this model and I'm also waiting on a few items I've ordered to arrive. I'm going to use Tight Bond III for the build and 30 minute epoxy.
I'll keep you posted and forward pictures of the kit as its opened up.
Soft landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,
I cleared the bench, opened the kit box and took a look at what you get. The first impression I received is that this is a big box and by far the heaviest kit box I ever opened. The quality of the laser cutting was first class and the balsa wood I looked at was some of the best I've seen in a few years. The first manual, is the AMR Giant Slick 50 build manual and has 66 pages. It must have at least one picture of every step in the build and I bet you there must be150 pictures or more, in this manual. The second manual I'm talking about, will be the first you will see when you open the box, and that is the Twin 50 Conversion manual. This manual is 18 pages long with pictures and explanation on the modifications you will need to do, BEFORE you assemble the wing. Both manuals seem to be self explanatory in the building procedures. AMR also gives advice on what they recommend for adhesives, during the build. It looks like its a self aligning fuselage assembly and the kit gives you a wing jig, that assembles the wings in perfect alignment. Ok...I'm impressed. This is going to be an interesting build, for I've never built a model quite like this before. And by far, this is the largest kit I've ever attempted to build.

I've one big issue with the kit I received. No Plans. This is my first kit I've purchased, that came with out a set of plans to the model. Being an old school kind of builder, I was disappointed that there where no plans in the kit. With plans, if I damage my model (with my less then perfect flying skills), I can more easily rebuild my model. I've been building models for over five decades and this is the first kit I've seen, that didn't have a set of plans included with the kit. So far...that is my only fault with the kit.

Now I was sent an e-mail from AMR (their customer service is excellent) today stating that I do not need a set of plans to build the kit. And in all honesty, I must admit, that may very well be the truth...that I do not need plans to complete this airframe. Its just that I like looking at plans and my personal preference. I do not want to fault the kits design or the what AMR states how easy this kit is to build...I like to have plans in my hands when I build a balsa model.

I am still collecting added goodies for the kit, but I have at least one of everything I need to start the build. I am going to build the fuselage and tail feathers first, then the wing.

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui

Leroy Gardner

Bob this looks intresting, I have the impression that your going to modify the build around the PV-1 Ventura, is that correct. I love a good bash, do it myself. AMR hits have my attention too, their said to be some of the best larger kits out there, may just be my next build but haven't chosen one yet.

Will be watching your come together.

Leroy

Bob Paris

My Feedback: (13)

Aloha,

I opened the kit some more and pulled out most of the hardware packages...and its really some nice stuff. All top brand DuBro, Robart and Ohio Superstar products. Quality hardware and now I know why this kit cost a bit more then your average kit...superb, up to the job...hardware. The aluminum landing gear is the toughest I've ever seen in any kit and with my landings, needed. I've built some fine kits in my day, but this is a nice touch. Ok...I'm impressed again.

I had to go to ACE hardware and pick up my Tightbond III and spray adhesive. I needed the spray adhesive to re-glue the cork down onto my building board. I also picked up some 30 minute epoxy and after I get my building board cork glued down, I'll begin the fuselage build.

Leroy...
I'm going to modify the kit to have twin rudders, just like you see in the PV-1 Ventura. If I bought the low wing 50 cc ugly stick kit-then bought the twin conversion kit, I would have a low wing kit and much more easy to modify to a "stand way the heck back" kind of scale PV-1. But I bought the standard ugly stick 50cc kit and my twin rudders will look just like the ones on the PV-1. I always did like how Lockeed made their tail feathers on their different models, from the PV-1 to Super Connie. So, I'll copy these and see what I get... : )

Soft Landings Always,
Bobby of Maui