Scratchie

Time to stop using CA/CA+ - breathing problems. I've read the posts and the most often suggested replacements seem to be Titebond, Elmer’s wood glue and Gorilla glue.

I'm familiar with Elmer’s wood glue and Gorilla glue both take a while to set. How fast does Titebond set? Is there anything out there that sets as fast as CA? Also, do you buy Titebond at the hobby shop or Home Depot?

GaryHarris

I recently started using Titebond II and fell in love with it. It sets up much faster than Elmers wood glue.

twn

I hear ya, nasty stuff but it works sooo good. I use a small fan blowing gently across the workspace. Helps A LOT!

Nothing else sets like thin ca.

Scratchie

I'm not sure I can build without my thin CA - it's a miracle glue. Anyway, I think I'll still use it to "tac" parts on with, then try titebond. It's hard for me to belive that an Elmer's glue product could set up as tightly as a CA. Do yuo guys think a fan and a dust mask will do much about teh CA issue?

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

I bet the fan and mask would help alot.  I stained my rather large deck with my compresser and an air gun and the first day I didnt use a mask cause I was outside.  It messed up my breathing considerably.  The next day I used a mask and had zero problems. 

Pillzee

I was having the same problem. I work in my garage and the fumes were killing me. Now i have to work with the garage door open so I can vent the place while i am working. It sucks with the cold weather too, I would rather have the door closed. Titebond sets up faster than elmers but not nearly as fast as CA. I found that I use the titebond when i am sheeting something, maybe I should use it and just tack with thin CA to keep the pieces together while the titebond cures.

P.S. you can buy the titebond at home depot. It is alot cheaper than CA.

Scratchie

My garage is not an option - it's 20 degree's outside. When teh weather warms I'll open windows and use a fan. Until then, I guess I'm switching to titebond - it's going to slow me down considerably as I only have one work surface to build on. Although I do like CA so much that I'd consider using a full-face resperator while glueing.

stevenmax50

My Feedback: (1)

a surgical mask will do ya.

ARUP

A charcoal filter mask is the only way to go with this kind of sensitivity (to CA adhesives). A paper filter mask is recommended for reducing dust particulate inhalation (charcoal mask still better). I use CA's ~10% of build but waterbased wood glues and Duco Cement are my favorites- very user friendly, set up reasonably fast and sandable. You just have to organize your work and build multiple structures to allow for the drying time. These adhesives are 'cheaper' in $$$, too! I think they are a much better value because I don't worry about jeopardizing my health when I use them. I plan on living a long time in order to build more airplanes! P.S.- don't forget your safety glasses!

Live Wire

Look in to the Gorilla Wood Glue I started using it and it sets fast and sands easy. Not the original stuff
Larry k

Scratchie

I'll get some titebond tonight at Home Depot, maybe swap out my building table for a larger one after I decide which glue I like the best. I imagine that Gorilla wood glue swells as it cures like the original, it’s not precise enough. Is Elmer’s wood glue really any good?

GaryHarris

ARUP is correct. Those paper masks are NOT for fumes. I learned the hard way packaging with that two part foam stuff called Insta-Pack at work many years ago. Im allergic to it.

hattend

My Feedback: (20)

You could try the Hot Stuff UFO CA. It doesn't kick with as much smoke and it's supposed to alleviate a lot of the allergy problems.

I don't have an allergy problem so I wouldn't know if the claim is correct however, I do know it doesn't kick off with as much smoke. I use it on foam parts and it isn't as hot as normal CA so it's safe for foam.

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXM367&P=V

Just a thought. You could always go to Titebond anyway.

Don

Scratchie

Thanks, after the allergies subside maybe I'll try a product like that.

twn

NAPA sells a really good 3m respirator, u can use it with epoxy paint and paint with mtk so I'm sure it will protect from ca fumes. Costed me $35CAN for mine they are throw away jobs. I keep mine for about 3 months and then toss. With perfuse usage replace it more often.



There is NOTHING like thin ca that can turn soft balsa into rediculously strong fibered plastic... Example take a 2" square block of balsa drill it and tap it with 1/4" tap. Treat it with thin ca to firm up the threads, don't be cheap on the the thin ca, tighten a standard bolt into it and just try to rip it out...

For some things you just can't replace thin ca...

Intruder38

I also have a severe reaction to CA, but not to odorless (aka Foam Safe) CA. The odorless does have a shorter shelf-life and slightly longer set-up time, but does not affect the respiratory system like regular CA. A fan will help but if you should happen to peek inside a fuselage, for example, after using CA in there. or sand balsa where yiu have used CA, you're back in the soup, so to speak. Be very careful with the CA because if you do get sensitized it can lead to asthma or heart arythmia. Better to be safe than sorry.

Live Wire

The Gorilla glue swells but there wood glue is like titebond 2 diferent types of glue You will see the difference at Home Depot

foodstick

While white glue is slower, you can easily offset that by building on two or three different sections, on different tables. Obviously not everyone has the room..but if you can do it, by the time you glue on table 3 ,,table one should be about dry .

Top_Gunn

My Feedback: (6)

Same here. Any more than trivial exposure to the regular stuff sets the nose to running, followed by sneezing, and it lasts for a couple of days. No problems with odorless, and you can use it on foam, too. It is expensive, though.

In the past, I've found Titebond to be brittle. Don't know about the new versions, though, like Titebond III.

on_your_six

My Feedback: (11)

Sorry, but epoxy paint is much more dangerous than using a 3M respirator for protection.

For this reason, in the United States, CDC's National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) recommends use of appropriate personal protective equipment (i.e., a positive pressure-supplied air respirator and clothing) and adequate ventilation when persons work with (or assess the presence of) glycidyl ether in confined spaces. In the United States, acute traumatic occupational deaths are monitored by NIOSH through the National Traumatic Occupational Fatalities (NTOF) data file (2). The NTOF data file uses death certificates as the source of information for work-related fatalities resulting from external causes of injury and poisoning (International Classification of Diseases, Ninth Revision (ICD-9), rubrics E800-E899). From 1980 through 1985, the NTOF data file included 286 deaths (an average of 48 work-related deaths per year) that involved workers in confined spaces with cause of death directly attributable to asphyxiation, explosion, or drowning.

I know you are talking about CA... I just did not want to let this misstatement slide... epoxy paints can really mess people up... and I have seen it personally.

Eplane65

My Feedback: (16)

A surgical mask isn't good enough. I had severe eye problems with CA including pimples under my eyelids and dry eye. Opthomologist couldn't figure it out and diagnosed me with some other thing. You must have good ventilation. I now try to do any glueing outside. This is nasty stuff.

Don41

As you can see from the varied opinions, the CA adhesives affect everyone differently. Personally,,, I went from having CA not bother me at all to the point that I can get the itching nose and sniffles even though I have a fan blowing it away from the work area and out a window. Even the expensive mask I bought that was supposedly designed to protect against such fumes failed to solve the problem. Now THAT'S a sensitivity (:-).

You CAN do without CA. Titebond III works great, just takes longer (use more pins and clamps). As to the hold, I have built a lot of planes in the last three years and I have yet had one suffer a failed joint.

Judging by the ever more crowded work area in my shed it might be better if some of them would fail.

zlin50L

I've used CA a lot as I build models for myself and others too and it's quick and convenient, but it also gave me problems breathing, sneezing, sore runny nose etc. So I now minimise it's use, and wear a 3m charcoal mask and more ventilation, which helps a great deal. Then I use wood glue and epoxy where I don't need a quick instant fix.
No sense in letting our health suffer for what should be an enjoyable great hobby .........

thailazer

I had problems as well when I had a closed in shop in Idaho. Got relief when I put a 6 inch muffin fan on a plywood plate and stuck that in the window while I was working. Opened a window on the far side of the house in the winter. The nice thing about the fan pushing the air out of the shop was that the fine sanding dust would go out too. That is a big irritant as well and seems to travel forever. There are a lot of fumes and particulates we create in this hobby so an exhaust fan is a good idea.

ghitt

My Feedback: (45)

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I am deathly allergic to ANY CA glue. I used to be able to use the odorless and now cannot use any. I bought an expensive bathroom exhaust fan and hung it over my workbench and the last time I tried to use it again I had to go to the emergency room because my bronchial tubes closed up and I could not breath. And yes I used a very high quality carbon face mask. I did a lot of research and found the following:

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The fumes from this glue are similar to the fumes from Lacquer, epoxy, the new auto paints, etc. They are absorbed by your body and do not leave. Each time you inhale (also can be absorbed by your eyes) these chemicals it is distributed by your blood stream and is absorbed by your body (mostly fat cells I believe). It is accumulative. Each attach will get worse. Unless you use a full body suit like they use for painting high-end cars, you will get it in your system. It is only a matter of time before there is a lawsuit or some big wheel politician’s son dies and then it will be gone.

<o></o>

I am also allergic to epoxy but if I use the mask, exhaust fan and latex gloves I am all right. When you finally get so that you are allergic to that stuff and it reacts to you, you will think you are on fire! It seems to make your oil glands in your skin shut down.

<o></o>

I have since switched to Titebond II for most of my wood gluing. So what, do you really need to be in such a hurry. Titebond is very strong for balsa, especially if you thin it a little so that it soaks in a little.

Another great glue that I am now using to replace CA is a product produced in England and only sold by Hobby-Lobby.com. It is called Super Phatic Aliphatic Glue. Don’t know what is in it but it is real thin and really soaks in, similar to CA. It also includes a metal tip that is great to use as long as you keep it in a glass of water when not using. If it dries in the tube it is toast.<o></o>

I wish all of you guys luck with the CA but I found that going slower is a lot more fun.