Judging question?
#1
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Judging question?
I'll ask Chad as he would appear to have the most uptodate data.
Q. How "fair" do you consider the judging at the events you attend? By that, do you and other flyers at the pattern meets feel that you finished where you should have. I realize that much subjectivity goes into the judging, but is there also the usual bias similar to figure skating where many times it doesn't really matter how you did, but seems more based on past performance and reputation? Due you have to "earn your dues" before you get respect on the score board?
A followup question would also be, "Is the judging between NorthAmerica and FAI stuff differ when it comes to fairness?"
I ask because one of the few pattern flyers from our zone began complaining about judging, in that he felt guys with a "name" would win events or place high when it wasn't deserved and he was naturally unhappy about it. I also recall reading a few years back when Hanno Prettner was winning all the time and the Worlds were held in his home country. The US complained that Hyde should have won based on actual flying and the cited some other seemingly nasty stuff when their team was trying to find a practice field (in a country with precious little flat space) so they went to Prettner's private or club field, but were essentially run off.
What's your experience? Has it changed?
Q. How "fair" do you consider the judging at the events you attend? By that, do you and other flyers at the pattern meets feel that you finished where you should have. I realize that much subjectivity goes into the judging, but is there also the usual bias similar to figure skating where many times it doesn't really matter how you did, but seems more based on past performance and reputation? Due you have to "earn your dues" before you get respect on the score board?
A followup question would also be, "Is the judging between NorthAmerica and FAI stuff differ when it comes to fairness?"
I ask because one of the few pattern flyers from our zone began complaining about judging, in that he felt guys with a "name" would win events or place high when it wasn't deserved and he was naturally unhappy about it. I also recall reading a few years back when Hanno Prettner was winning all the time and the Worlds were held in his home country. The US complained that Hyde should have won based on actual flying and the cited some other seemingly nasty stuff when their team was trying to find a practice field (in a country with precious little flat space) so they went to Prettner's private or club field, but were essentially run off.
What's your experience? Has it changed?
#2
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Judging question?
How "fair" do you consider the judging at the events you attend?
Overall I dont think it affects the results, specific rounds yes, but thats why we have multiple rounds so that no single round can earn you a top position.....you fly against different judges each round.
"Is the judging between NorthAmerica and FAI stuff differ when it comes to fairness?"
At large events like the WC a bit of software known as TBL (taken from full scale aerobatics) is used to remove judge bias, rank judges (yes they are scored like we are) and correct scores that fall outside the norm when compared to other judges on that panel. It works very well and has more or less removed the possibility of unfair judging at the WC. Currently Canada's judge is ranked #1 worldwide for F3A. Obviously the judges at the WC are considered "professional" by all accounts and will be more accurate in their methods than at a local contest....but the criteria is the same for all the events.
I ask because one of the few pattern flyers from our zone began complaining about judging
The US complained that Hyde should have won
in that he felt guys with a "name" would win events or place high when it wasn't deserved and he was naturally unhappy about it.
Anyways, pattern is judged by humans.....until humans are perfect specimens their will always be questions/issues surrounding judging and it will always be used as a scapegoat for poor flying LOL. This is no different in IMAC, or any other judged events.
#3
My Feedback: (1)
RE: Judging question?
Ok here is one for you
This year in Muncie on my third round (I think) I received from 3 judges a
9 - 9 - 0
For a manuver that is centered in front of the pilot and consists of a 45 degree inverted climb with a 4 point roll (inverted entry inverted exit) to a level inverted exit at the top of the box (about 800' high).....
Now how can two judges see 9's (which is a typical score of mine on this manuver) and the other see a 0? Missing or not defining a point enough is worth 4-5 point downgrade not 0.....
This is a K-Factor 4 manuver...... 5 is the highest so it cost me a possible 36 raw points (this can be the difference between being first in a round and being 15th in the round).
I did protest the score and it was confirmed that the judge wrote a zero (sometimes scores get entered into the computer wrong and 9 is close to 0).....
Anyways, this little "problem" did cost me a 10th place finish as it was that close to myself and 10th.....
Thats the game, things like that do happen and you really cannot do anything about it except go put up a better flight the next time.
This year in Muncie on my third round (I think) I received from 3 judges a
9 - 9 - 0
For a manuver that is centered in front of the pilot and consists of a 45 degree inverted climb with a 4 point roll (inverted entry inverted exit) to a level inverted exit at the top of the box (about 800' high).....
Now how can two judges see 9's (which is a typical score of mine on this manuver) and the other see a 0? Missing or not defining a point enough is worth 4-5 point downgrade not 0.....
This is a K-Factor 4 manuver...... 5 is the highest so it cost me a possible 36 raw points (this can be the difference between being first in a round and being 15th in the round).
I did protest the score and it was confirmed that the judge wrote a zero (sometimes scores get entered into the computer wrong and 9 is close to 0).....
Anyways, this little "problem" did cost me a 10th place finish as it was that close to myself and 10th.....
Thats the game, things like that do happen and you really cannot do anything about it except go put up a better flight the next time.