chopper man

I'm feeling pretty good about flying my trainer. I have been trying a few new manuvers but my trainer is 1 under powered and 2 it's a trainer. One of the guys at the field said I should put my Kaos together and start learning some new stunts on that verses the trainer. When I try something on the trainer I'm never sure when things don't work out if it is me or that my plane is a trainer and slightly underpowered. What is your opinion? Start out easy with my Kaos and slowly start trying new things or make things work with my trainer before I move on?
Thanks

Chopper man

bbbair

OK - let's start... What kind of trainer do you have? What does it weigh? Do you have ailerons? What engine do you have? Prop? [sm=72_72.gif]

NOW; What sort od manouvers are you trying to do? How long have you been flying? How good are you?...

My point here is that I/we don't know all the details - I have seen fellows that were ready to solo in 2 weeks and moved on to advanced aircraft in two months. THEN there were the guys that haven't soloed after two years... [][:'(]

I spent two years on my Eagle 2 and then moved up when talent and money permitted.

If you are very comfortable on your trainer and are looking for an extra challange - go for it! Just be sure that the challange is within your reach or you could be buying another challange in short order... []

RussianFlyer

I just moved up from my LT-40 to a Sig Somethin' Extra and it went very smooth. My LT-40 is converted to a tail dragger with a CG set at the suggested intermediate point. Before moving to the SSE, I got the LT-40 to do stall turns, loops, cuban eights, sustained inverted flight, spins, and some other basic maneuvers. So as far as "stunts" go, a trainer is capable of quite a bit if you move the CG slightly back (within the recommended range) and experiment with larger throws. Try that while you are putting your Kaos together, and you will probably be able to judge for yourself just how well you can handle a more aerobatic model (i.e. your good old trainer ) The Kaos will probably be a good step up after this, and you'll be more accustomed to quicker control response. Before taking my SSE out for the first time, I made sure to dial the control throws down a good bit to prevent overcontrolling it. You may not need to do that with the Kaos since its not a fun-fly model. HTH

chopper man

I have been flying the Tower Trainer with an OS .46LA and a 10x6 prop. I had to take a little break while my wife continues to battle cancer and I now have been able to get back to 1 day a week. I can do loops with no problem. I had one of the guys try to roll it and he even had a tough time getting it to roll. I tried inverted flight today but the plane just wants to right itself. Again I'm still new at this and I am expermenting on my own so I might not be doing it correct either. I started flying nitro last Nov. and then stopped in April of this year. Even during that period I flew once a week or once every two weeks. Not as often as I would like to have flown. Thanks for your opinions[8D]
chopper man

OzMo

My Feedback: (3)

few people truely MASTER the trainer. but i for one can crash a trainer with a great deal of expertise

not all trainers are equal i like my LT 40 but it has only 1/2 the usual dihedral and a slight increase in rudder surface area so it is semi areobatic also a tail dragger . OS 46. inverted is pretty good as i can fly it around the field and stay inverted. my students like it fine
i often train them on it if theirs has problems or not completed yet or whatever.

try some one wheel touch and goes with a target of where to touch down and see how you do. and see if you can do some stunts consistently..... but there is nuttin wrong with having a new plane also!!

jetmech05

It sounds like you're not ready yet...inverted flight on a trainer can and should be mastered before going on, rolls can be done perhaps you need more throw on the ailerons plus a trainer will need some down elevator into the roll to keep the altitude. cuban 8's, ally oops,immelmans, split s can all be done... master these on a trainer and you'll be a better pilot always

chopper man

Thanks
chopper man

da Rock

It's time you hopped that trainer up a bit. It won't cost a penny, and you're ready for it.

Re-rig the aileron's. Almost all trainer's are setup with slow ailerons. That's why yours had a tough time rolling. Move the pushrod connections on the aileron horn in one hole. Fly it and see if it isn't quicker on the ailerons. Now try to roll it.

I very often tune a beginner's trainer's ailerons to not be fast. And after the student is comfortable flying and it's time for them to step up a level, we speed up the ailerons. The trainer not only rolls easier, but handles almost everything with more "authority and accuracy". And they're ready to have a different feel to the airplane to learn. And having a quicker airplane without having to buy another one is a real bargain. And I very often fly my student's trainers around upside down. Haven't seen one yet that wouldn't. But trainers definitely want to right themselves. It's what they're supposed to do. And it's great training to learn inverted flight from a trainer. They help you bigtime when you get confused. A model that's better at inverted will be less apt to help you when you get confused.

Can you loop? Consecutive loops? Immelman? Split S? Hammerhead/stall turn? Stall into a spin?

If you can't do them comfortably, and instantly on command, you're not done with that trainer. She'll do a bunch of stuff, she just needs the ailerons hotted up. And MIGHT need the elevator juiced up a touch. But she's not done with you yet if you can't do those things mentioned. And she's the best to learn them with. I teach all my students those maneuvers while they're also learning to land. It teaches airplane control. Which is actually the point of the whole deal.

BTW, if you can do all those mentioned, then have you snap rolled her yet? Some will, some won't. But you'll learn a lot trying it with the old girl.

bruce88123

1. Practicing the inverted flight be sure to keep a little extra altitude until you know that both you and the plane can recover well.
2. Easy way into stable inverted flight is a half loop. No ailerons needed for entry. Once there use ailerons to maintain wings level and elevator to keep the nose from dropping. If the nose gets too low - recover to upright level flight immediately. (Before the garbage bag is needed)[:@] It may help initially to stop the half loop entry with the nose a few degrees high to give you a moment to adjust.

You (the plane that is) really should be able to fly circles around the field with the Tower Trainer inverted.

btoby

if you still get the jitters when flying your trainer, then you should keep flying it till it get's boring.keep flying it till your not afraid of it anymore.

bruce88123

I must be reading a different thread btoby. I didn't see him mention "jitters" or being "afraid" of his plane. In fact, I read "I'm feeling pretty good about flying my trainer." Just because he has a few questions doesn't make him "scared", it makes him "smart".

aerowoof

there are loops and then there are loooops,
are your loops perfectly round and to you finish at the same altitude as you started or are they egg shaped and you finish lower that at your starting altitude?the first scenario is the correct loop if you can do that then you are ready for other manuvers if you are in the 2nd catagory practice is required,reduce throttle on the down side

jetmech05

oh by the way when your working on inverted flight here is a little ditty that may save your airplane
When in doubt roll out. In other words if it doesn't feel right roll out of inverted never loop out....you probaly wont have enough altitude

chopper man

Thanks for all the advise. I am definitely ready to move on to more challanging things. I had my first dead stick after I was doing a go around. Things worked out ok. Thats not to say that they will all work out but thats part of the hobby. But bruce88121 and da Rock have hit it on the head. I need to change a few settings on my Tower trainer. I really didn't look at it in that light, and hence why I ask questions. I'm excited about flying my Kaos but I want to be ready for it by being 1 step ahead of the plane. I'll change a few things on the trainer and try all those things mentioned above.

chopper man

jetmech05

atta boy chopper man...catching the trainer inverted was work for me but once i got it I had it...you'll be a better pilot for it

chopper man

I'm going to stick with my trainer until I can fly it with my eyes closed. Ok maybe not all the way closed I've got some more work to do with my trainer before I move on. In the mean time I'll start putting the Kaos toghether and then it will be ready.

chopper man

bruce88123

Good plan.

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

Chopper man,
Sorry that I haven't responded to this thread earlier than this, we've been on vacation and I've had limited time on the keyboard. But here's a little info that will help you out. I learned to fly on a the Tower Trainer too. I can tell you with absolute certainty that this trainer is capable of flying complete circuits of the flying field inverted. It does take a little bit of work to fly it around the field like that, but once you've mastered doing this you will be well rewarded for the word when you move on to other planes. And I wasn't flying on the engine. My trainer has an OS 40 FP (equivelant to a 40 LA) on the plane. As for rolls, there is on simply thing you can do to help out here. Seal the gaps in your ailerons, elevator, and rudder. You will be completely shocked at the difference it will make in the plane. It will take it from a so-so roll to a solid roll that you can actually be proud of.

BTW, I've been flying for 11 years and I still have that trainer that I learned on. I still take it to the field about once a month or so. It's a total blast to take the old trainer out and fly it again.

Ken

TCrafty

Just had my Kadet Senior out today! That was my trainer and I still have fun when I fly it, although it HAS gone though some changes, like a '91 OS, flattened out wing and stuff like that. Two sides of the coin here, there's nothing like having a new plane to keep you interested in flying. My second plane was a Thunder Tiger Lazy Tiger with a 40LA. Whether you have another plane to master or not, keep trying things with your trainer. By the way, are you a "Crank and yank" kinda flyer? You know, wide open and always trying to keep up with it? If not, and you've learned throttle control, you are definitely on your way to improving your flying. If pulling down on the left stick is foreign to you, try it. Find out where the stall speed of your trainer is and learn to use the throttle and elevator to keep it up in the air. In my opinion (yup, it's only MY opinion so it won't get you much) you haven't outgrown your trainer until you've learned the ENTIRE envelope of what it can do. Many folks think that because they can keep it in the air and land with the engine still running, they have "mastered" their trainer.

Try new things with your trainer, if something goes wrong, your trainer has a better chance of survival than a faster, more aerobatic plane. You can even get a better feel for the different characteristics of prop sizing and pitch by swapping out the blades on your trainer, especially since you've gotten used to how it flies. A larger engine (you said it was underpowered) could change the flight characteristics greatly. If you are able to build, try building a wing with a lot less dihedral and fly with that for a while. It can totally change the plane and you've still got the trainer wing to use if a friend wants to learn. Whether you do any mods or not, try things like picking a spot on the runway and try to land consistently at that spot. That can teach you precision, even with your trainer. By the way, I was hovering MY trainer today.

bigtim

My Feedback: (13)

mastering inverted flight shouldn't be the limiting factor to advance to the next level of aerobatic plane,but being confident and doing the basic manuevers smoothly is a indicator that your ready for the next step.
I have been back at it for several years now and still feel uncomfortable with inverted flight,mabee its because I didn't practice the basics enough[X(].
moving on is a personal thing,a good second plane is a 4*,or a Sig Somthing extra also a good kit to work on,I chose a fun kit called a GIZMO.
if you want to try a more manueverable plane ask a more expierenced club member to help you out to get it up there, and give it a try,its what I did and found out it wasn't that hard after all.
I was given the oportunity to fly a fellow club members plane,a U Can Do,and I knew I was ready for the next step after flying his.
when I built my second plane the GIZMO,I had a club member trim it for me and I didn't fly my trainer again,again with some help from my club members I have been flying warbirds which is my main interest in RC,really do what you feel is right.
best wishes for your wife also,I don't know what I would do without mine.

Cyclic Hardover

My Feedback: (3)

Flying inverted should have nothing to do with moving on. Especiall when it's in a trainer with typical dihedral where it's a PITA. If you can handle that in a trainer, flying inverted in something better will be no problem. Flying iverted is just one more area to check off. I have no use for flying inverted, so I don't, doesn't stop me from getting whatever plane I want.

Flying iverted does not lessen my skills as a pilot which is probably why i end up with the same number of planes at the end of a season as what I started with.

da Rock

BTW, very often we think the next step up is a move to a more advanced airplane. It isn't.

It's when you learn the next level's maneuvers. Or improve your skills to that level.

Too often we think we just need an airplane that will do the things we want to do. It's a great excuse to buy another airplane, but it ain't how it works. Very often, that "better" airplane will do stuff easier, but is actually harder to fly safely. And very often, the airplane we already got will do what we expect to get for free with that next airplane.

chopper man

Thanks for everyones input. Everyone has valid points. I will admitt that I would like to fly my Kaos but I also know that after reading your replies that I still have alot to try and learn on my trainer. Until I master my trainer I'll know that my Kaos is safe in the box and I will not destroy it because I was impatient. Like I tell my little girl, your time will come. Oh by the way, my little girl who is 7 flew on a buddy box yesterday with one of the guys at the field. She did pretty good for a first time. I think shes hooked.

chopper man

TCrafty

Very cool. It never hurts to have some young blood coming up through the ranks. Even when other things may come along and pull her attention, when she gets some time and cash, she could very likely find herself a hobby that she can enjoy for the rest of her life.

I didn't want you, or anyone else to think that I was being heavy and saying that you shouldn't fly your Kaos, just that there is so much more your trainer has yet to teach you, if you will only give it the opportunity. I see plenty of folks who fly their trainer and after two weeks, have it for sale, thinking they've outgrown it. I think they're wrong.

Make a list of things that you would want to do with your Kaos, and then try them with your trainer. Just stay high enough to recover. My thought is that if you can make a trainer do it, then making a more aerobatic plane do it should be a snap. But, that's just me thinkin' again.

dirtmagnet

my trainer i used to have would loop fairly easy and roll alright. but it was an avistar 40 which is a somewhat aerobatic trainer. i have flown a tower trainer for some people teaching them how to fly and they are hard to do aerobatics with. where with a trainer you have to work to get it to roll but with a kayos for example all you have to do is push the stick to one side. i would say if you can take off, fly around do basic aerobatics like loops, rolls if the airplane will do it, and then land with no sweat then i would say go on with the 2nd airplane. most trainers aren't built to do most aerobatics because they are made to right theirselves. but keep your trainer incase you go a little while without flying and need to touch up on basic flying. once you get more experience going 3-4 weeks at a time without flying wont phase you but learning really you have stay pretty consistant. but yes i would say go on with your next airplane.