chopper man

After reading everyones advise I started taking a look at my trainer. The ailerions were set at the low rate. I now have them set at dual rate. Other than what might be the ovious with bigger throws, what might I expect on my first flight with that setting? Do I need to adjust the elevator to get more throw?
Thanks
chopper man

PipeMajor

My Feedback: (1)

I'm at the same point with my LT-40 w/TT 46 Pro. Flew it a total of 8 flights yesterday doing hammerheads, slow rolls, flying inverted the length of the field, figure 8's and spot landings. I was doing full up elevator takeoffs at about half throttle. The nose would come up almost immediately and I'd roll down the runway where it'd lift off about halfway down. Easy way of getting a trike gear model to act like a tail dragger.

I moved our CG back to the middle 30% (3-7/8" behind LE). Training CG is 27% or 3-1/2" behind LE. I also bumped up our rates a bit and dialed down the exponential to -15% from the -25% it was set at originally. I also started out with some Ch4 (rudder) mixed into Ch1 (ailerons) but took that out since I need to manually learn to use the rudder more.

Our "move-up" ship is almost ready to go. An H9 UltraStick 40 w/Saito 62 and quad flap arrangement (good excuse to acquire a Futaba 9CAPs radio) should serve us well. I also have a Sig SE kit still in the box which is tempting (build me, build me, build me!). May have to slow down a bit since I own 11 Futaba S3004 servos, T6XA and T9C transmitters, R319DPS, R138DP and R127DF receivers.

Missileman

It depends on how much more throw you have.
My Kadet senior started out with 3/8" up or down and I went to 1/2" I could barely notice a difference in normal flight but there was a tremendous difference when doing any aerobatics.
On the other hand, my BrightStar on low rates is a great flyer, on high rates it is difficult to control. (low rate is 50%)
When you are ready start off with your regular low rate and have someone stand next to you. Once in the air you can switch to high (if high is too much and you are all over the sky the guy standing next to you can flip the rate switch back while you concentrate on flying)

D-LOCO

Chopper Man,

Fly the Kaos!!

I think it flies better (and just as easy) than my LT-40 that I learned to fly on or my LT-25 trainer.

Just do it!!

Dave

ps: should you take my advice, I predict that you'll be wondering why you didn't fly it sooner.

da Rock

The general trim for ailerons is to rig them so that your airplane will do about a roll per second. Needless to say, non-aerobatic types aren't expected to toe that line, and some of the aerobatic types stomp that rate. So how do you do it?

There is a basic setup that experienced modelers start with. Rig the pushrod from the closest in hole on the servo arm to the fartherst out hole on the surface's control horn. If that doesn't give you the 1sec/roll rate (or whatever you're shooting for), you move the connection in one hole on the horn. If that doesn't work, move it out one hole on the servo arm. If not, in on the horn, out on the arm, in on the horn, out on the arm etc etc. You want to do all the initial setup on the airplane. Have your radio setup for 100% throw for high rate and something like 60% for low rate. Do all the timing of the roll rate while flying on full rates. Leave your radio alone. Lots of reasons why.

As for the elevator...........
Rig the elevator the same starting setup as the ailerons. Same reasons (which weren't given as they're explained all over the place). The elevator should be trimmed at high rates to be able to be able to turn the airplane in a pitchup that would work for a square loop. Don't know what that is? Ask an expert at the field to show you one. If he is, he can show you. For aerobatic airplanes, lots of flyers trim the high rate elevator throw to be able to just stall the wing at full throw. If it can stall the wing at less, they reduce the throw until it won't and then increase it back a touch. And then their elevator low rate will be very safe for things that don't require stalling the wing. Like landing.

Do you need to adjust the elevator for more throw? Only you can answer that by flying and trying.

Insanemoondoggie

chopperman, Set your throws up a 1/4 in. on your all control surfaces, and seal the gaps on them too . This well help improve your trainers flight characteristics. Fly it like this for a couple of weeks and see how you feel about what you have learned.
If you feel good about it, then move to the kaos , but keep in mind , the kaos wont righten itself like your trainer. You have to do more of the flying,

chopper man

How do go about sealing the gaps on the control surfaces.
chopper man

RCKen

My Feedback: (9)

In my [link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_3439708/tm.htm]Pay It Forward build thread!! LT-40 build [/link] thread I addressed sealing gaps in the thread. You can find the sections in the build by following these links.

Aileron gap sealing starts here:
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5398504[/link]
Rudder/Elevator sealing starts here
[link]http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=5589251[/link]

Ken

Insanemoondoggie

Tx Ken, thats way better than could explain it and pics too!

firestone1121

bigtim-"best wishes for your wife also,I don't know what I would do without mine. "

HERE HERE! hope everything works out chopper man! behind every great pilot is a great woman.

ok ok. now for a newbie yous all talk chinese to me. immelmans? Split S? Hammerhead/stall turn? not to sound dumb but what do these maneuvers look like in the air? is there a chart or illustration somewhere?? id like to try these but dont know what or how to do these. i know your basic rolls and loops and half cuban 8's. i know what a knife edge looks like but dont know how to perform it(opposite rudder and aileron simultaneously?) i heard of a blender, harrier, rolling harrier, inverted harrier(maybe?) but have no clue what it would look like. can anybody help??

da Rock

Good question.

But off topic to this thread. So how about you start a new thread in the forum asking the same question. Cut and paste works great.

There really is a good reason RCU wants people to stay on topic. It gets new threads started that focus on really good questions that need to have their own title and attention.

firestone1121

will do- i apologize.

Insanemoondoggie

firestone, try this link for more info[link=http://www.bruce.ogilvy.clara.net/text/training/aero/a01.html] Training basics.[/link] good luck.

firestone1121

thanks insane- im sure u can tell im pretty wet behind the ears lol. actually im reading faqs now. shoulda done it sooner!!

fxrider

RCKen: I just went back and looked at your covering instructions/details. Incredible job, informative, complete, and recommended reading for all beginners and old salts alike. I for one would like to thank you for the time and effort you provide in these forums to help and instruct.

Chopperman: Put your Kaos together while you're trying new things with your trainer. It's always good to have a project going while you have something to fly just to keep the hobby fresh and fun......if you're like me it's going to take you a while to assemble the Kaos anyway.

Good Luck!

txaggie08

amen!

chopper man

Well I changed the rates of the contols. What a difference it made with the Tower trainer. I was able to practice my loops, rolls and inverted flight and I was able to keep it in one piece. I'm going ahead and putting my Kaos together but I believe I'll keep working with my trainer for awhile. I have a GMS .47 for the Kaos and I think I'm going to put it on the trainer for awhile. Flying the plane is totally different than the sim. IMO Thanks for all the advice.
chopper man

bruce88123

Good to hear. A bit more lively now, eh??

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

I just finished reading this thread from start to finish, chopper man, and I was surprised that:

A) You felt your O.S. .46 LA was underpowered for this plane

B) That the Tower Trainer .40 wasn't aerobatic enough to learn new manuevers

It sounds like you're getting things spiced up by enhancing your control throws and sealing your control surfaces. This is a great place to start. I'd also like to see you try a few different propellers to see if you can get more thrust out of your .46 LA before you go changing engines around. Your 10x6 prop is probably allowing your trainer to fly quickly when it's straight and level, but your vertical lines and loops might be easier if you try a prop with a bigger "bite" to it. An 11x6 prop from a couple of different manufacturers would be well worth the cost, you'll be surprised at how differently a plane will fly simply by switching out the propeller.

Adjusting the center of gravity (carefully and in small increments please) rearward so the plane is less nose heavy will also change its responsiveness. My Tower Trainer is fairly agile despite being nose heavy, however, so you don't need to turn your trainer into a finicky, twitchy beast to enjoy aerobatics with it.

I have a Tower Trainer .40 MkII ARF that I fly, and I've been amazed at how nimble and aerobatic it is for a flat-bottomed high wing trainer. I have a lot of fun flying it inverted and doing loops, rolls, wing overs, Immelmanns, and Split-S turns with it.

Good luck, and let us all know how you're progressing.

chopper man

Well how stupid am I?? After looking what I have written in the past I stand corrected. I have a O.S .40LA on my trainer. Sorry for the incorrect info. I think your right about changing the prop. I'm going to put a bigger prop on and see what happens. I'm going to make small adjustments as I continue to build confidence.
chopper man

bigedmustafa

My Feedback: (2)

An 11x6 might be just a touch heavy for your .40 LA, but an 11x5 should be a good match. It will reduce your top-end speed but enhance the plane's climbing ability just a bit.

A Tower Trainer .40 MkII and a .40 LA engine should be a nice flying combination. I think you're on the right track to maximize your flying experience with it while putting your Kaos together.