sheograth

It seems that so many companies are ditching kits in favor or RTR cars and trucks. I don't care if they over RTR in addition to kits, but I feel that those of us who enjoy building our cars and trucks are getting shut out. The companies seem to be responding to a crowd of people who want instant gratification and don't want to put any work into it really. To me instant gratification is the antithesis of what the word hobby means. Without enjoying the process of building / working on, and actually learning about how these vehicles work on a more technical level, the only difference between these and toys is raw performance. Personally I feel that I get more for my money if I get to invest a few hours into building something. For example when I spent $850 on my Baja 5B SS kit, I spent a good 10+ hours building it, thats 10 hours of pleasure and entertainment I wouldn't have gotten with an RTR.

I know not everyone feels that way, just wondering if anyone on either side wants to share some thoughts on the subject.

Anomie

I feel the same way. I have never purchased an RTR vehicle, and the main reason was to avoid not being familiar with the operation. The kit allows for so much insight into all of the mechanical aspects of the model that any repairs or upgrades are that much easier. To me, it is very much a hands-on hobby.

sheograth

Yeah, I see people come here and ask "Somethings clicking in the transmission, any way to know what it is without opening it up?" I don't mind helping them at all, but at the same time I sorta feel like they wouldn't need to ask had they been the one who assembled said transmission in the first place.

coryw.

I don't think one is better than the other. Some may like to build it from bottom up and others enjoy being able to pick out options and have them installed and ready to go. I don't see either situation being better than the other. I think it has a lot to do with experience level as well. Plus if I were to get an RTR model it would be taken apart before ran in the first place anyways.

I do believe, however, kits are far more enjoyable in the end because it is a different "bond" if you will. You build every aspect of the car and completely make it your own. On the other hand, RTR allows for a great "base" work with allowing a beginner to ease into the modifications by swapping here and there. SO many possibilities with either way you go.

However, to take away the consumer's choice to build a kit/RTR is pretty wrong I think.


Not bashing you fellas either. I hope you didn't think that.


Cory

iamnot

not really concerned
i think rtr's are what has made the hobby as popular as it is
the ones that get hooked
learn and stay around
kits or no
the others would screw up a kit
and have the same redundant questions anyway

"the instructions say use screw xyz but screw abc looks exactly the same
so, can i use screw pqr instead???????"

seen it before

true story

only the screws have been changed to protect the guilty

sheograth

It's true that it helps people get into the hobby, but what disappoints me is when people refuse to buy a kit simply because it would take some effort to build. Its the mentality of instant gratification with minimal work that disappoints me.

iamnot

well
that's not really the fault of the rc companies
all they are doing is producing what sells

if kits sold more there would be more companies making them

but your point is valid
unfortunately
it pertains to nearly every aspect of society
not just rc
we're just a microcosm in that regard

drevil

My Feedback: (5)

I don't have a problem with people buying RTRs, although I personally prefer kits, but what really bothers me are the people who buy a RTR and then expect it to not need any maintenance or repairs. Then when it breaks they bring it back to the hobby shop and have them fix it. It boggles my mind when I hear somebody say they can't repair one of these things especially when it's a very simple fix. It's as if they think of these things like their full size cars, no need to repair it yourself, just bring it back to the dealership.

How long before Traxxas starts leasing these things to us?

Access

It is what it is. We live in a post-modern world where people demand instant gratification so companies are wise to provide that to them. RTRs make the hobby accessible to anyone. Mechanically inept people who can't fix a transmission or set a gear mesh to save their own life, they are the lifeblood of the local hobby shops that would otherwise go out of business (having to compete with the internet shops). Sure I (personally) miss the days when you could walk into a shop and see a few kits still being sold but the world changes. You can complain or you can enjoy it for what it is.

dittch

Most people want it already built. The companies are selling what the market is demanding, and that is RTR's right now. Building is not for everyone. I've been in nitro RC for almost 20 years. I have always been able to repair my own vehicles, probably with a blindfold on as they're so simple. But, you'll never see me buy a kit because I wouldn't want to build my own. Putting a kit together doesn't interest me in the least bit.

Also, buying an RTR over a kit doesn't mean minimal work. Sure you avoid having to assemble it, but these cars need maintenance/repairs and ultimately one has to get to know their car because of that. They can learn about their car during the build, or learn about it during maintenance/repair. Either way, they will learn....The end result is the same.

westphill24

Ive only been in the hobby since last august and my revo was bought used and rtr. If it wast for rtr I would have probably bought something from toys r us or somewhere and thought it was the same thing as hobby grade, broke it and since most cant be repaired never buy a rc again. Kits are very overwhelming if you dont already know someone who is in the hobby. I never knew about servos, esc, diffs, nitro, Tx/RX, or pretty much anything that has to do with actually putting a kit together. I didnt even think there was really an rc hobby outside of planes. What Im trying to say is the rtr got me in the hobby and now I have 4 cars and one on the way. I built 2 from scratch and tore my revo apart and put it back together and I do agree it is EXTREMELY fun and rewarding to build.( Honestly I was terrified of taking that revo apart) Also from a money stand point rtr seems cheaper but since I have a little experience now I know that isnt true. I think once people get a feel for the hobby and make a few contacts and acquire parts and the proper tools they move on to kits but the rtr are need to lure them. I dont think anyone would want to have 4,5,or 6 Tx laying around when they could just have one good one for everything.
Anyway sorry about my book of rambling but I honestly think kits are never going away especially if racing continues to grow.

ludeman

I agree. There is so much work to be done on any RTR you get because things will break, so in the end you are hobbying. Plus I said this in another post I have a Job, Wife, kids, and a house. I just dont have the time anymore. I just want something to run around with my son on the weekends, for me RTR fits the bill.

i8tweety

My Feedback: (11)

Personally, I prefer building kits. I find building and rebuilding more enjoyable than running them. The only thing better is machining my own parts.

Unfortunately, there are two factors driving the RTR path.

(1) market demand. There is sufficient market demand to support offering vehicles pre-assembled. This also expands the target market by including a younger audience that would not be considered capable of building a kit, as well as those who are too intimidated / impatient to build one.

(2) economics. If it were just market demand, both would be offered for all vehicles as there is a sufficient number of people wanting to assemble kits. It is fairly cost neutral to have a vehicle assembled in China, or similar low cost county compared to packaging components in multiple, labeled parts bags. They are also bundling in radio gear, at a modest profit.

Longhair

I've always been mechinally inclined since I was a kit - taking a part & putting together Tonka Toys, AM Radios, bicycle, etc...

I like kits because I am able to sit down for a hour or two and not be bothered while I work on them and driving them is the reward - something you can't get with plastic model kits - yep, had those a kid also

RCCanuck

I think you are wrong in your assumptions about people that buy RTR packages......Look at it this way....If someone wants to buy a motorcycle to ride in ther spare time do they really need to be able to buy it in a kit and take it home to build it.....that just doesn't make sense to me since if someone were inclined to want to build it themselves they can do so by buying all of the parts and building it....

Furthermore anybody that I know that runs RTR RC vehicles can and does take them apart for maintenace and repairs which essentially is the same as building a kit no? All of my vehicles have been totally torn down and upgraded with better hardware, Accesories, electronics and engines

I think it is more a case of the elitest attitude of some people in this hobby that is the problem and has been since forever.....I remember seeing a guy running his gold tub RC-10 at the beach about 20 years ago and when I approached him trying to get some info on what he was running and where you could get one his response was that if I had to ask I couldn't afford it.....that kind of attitude is still present today and it sucks.....

The definition of the word Hobby is as follows: An activity or interest pursued outside of ones regular occupation and engaged in primarily for pleasure...

Thats it.....doesn't mention anything about kits VS RTR's LOL

seriously though I'll go out on a limb here and say that I doubt you will find anybody in this hobby that runs RTR out of the box that has an issue or problem with the fact that some people like to build kits......its like I tell people about all of my Tattoos.....I DON'T CARE IF YOU ARE NOT TATTOOED.

J.D.T

I personally like the rtr trend, not because I want to own them but because it allows manufacturers to dump all kinds of goodies in the kit for the same money, take my hpi mt2 ss + kit, it comes with better tires, metal tuned pipe, better motor, cvds and heavy duty drivetrain gear for the same exact price point as the hpi mt2 rtr.
I was suprised Traxxas the king of the rtr was finally giving us a kit again in the platinum revo, it has to have been at least 8 years since traxxas offered a kit so I thing things are at least getting better for the upper end of the hobby.

Argess

There's lots of good opinions here, but I say RTR's are great to get people started and sooner or later thre will be a need to make repairs, do maintenance, up-grade, etc that will force the issue. Regardless, it is a personal preference wether to start with a kit or an RTR. Many people are so inept, they would do a much worse job with a kit, then the manufacturer does with an RTR. But they will learn. An isn't that what these forums are for?....sharing ideas, information....ie. sharing knowledge.

One thing is certain, No-one should be looked-down upon because they have an RTR. Kit building snobbery is just plain wrong. I'm not sure of the latest rules, but Morse Code used to be a prerequisite to get a ham radio license, and that stayed long into the days where modern technology made it archaic. That kept a lot of people out of that hobby. Me included. Too bad. Do we want to limit youngsters with little mechanical experience from the hobby? Or to eliminate adults who are more at home expounding on the latest political or econmic scene, but can't hammer a nail or saw a board?

Actually, I don't see much difference between a kit and an RTR. If you like building, strip the RTR down completely and guess what.......you now have a kit. Where it becomes a pain is when you want to put a certain engine, or a certain radio system in a vehicle and because you had to buy an RTR, you will have redundant gear. But it's good back-up stuff, or can be sold on e-bay, or even given to the kid next door who can't afford much with his place in the hobby.

Companies should try to capture the market if they want to maximizwe profits. The complete market. And that will include kits as well as RTRs. Because you know what? After someone starts with his RTR, it is more than likely he will sooner or later want to build a kit. If he doesn't, he can continue as is, but more than likely he will drop the hobby.

Access

That's the thing though. I think today the kit market is dwarfed by the RTRs. The only kits that still exist are the very high end, hardcore racing cars and trucks, typically used only by the most elite racers not bashers or even common club racers. The mid-end kit, or the low-end kit, it's been dead for quite some time.

The one thing I do wish is that companies would at least sell 'rollers', brushless-ready RTR cars minus the motor and all electronics at lesser cost. That would be really nice, 90% of the time if a serious hobbyist buys an RTR, he is ditching the motor and ESC for something more usable.

Argess

I guess you are right.....seems to be a lot more RTR's and not as many kits. And the kits are often higher end units with high prices.

Mind you, I like my HPI 18SS 1/10 touring car, and it was a kit. You can buy the Baja 5B as a kit. And there are more.....just maybe not as many choices.

I'd like to buy a X-Ray NT18, but it's only available in kit form (the MT version is available in RTR).

Know what I don't like about most kits? You have to paint the bodies, and I detest that.....plus I'm not much good at it, and really don't want to be.

Anyway, I doubt the RTR market will eliminate kits. Check out the airplane guys. You can buy RTF, ARF and kits. I would suspect kits have the most selection. LOL.....and kits can be nice die-cut pieces, or a stack of raw lumber. Lots of choices. But us car guys....a lot of youngsters on here, and I think they want to "go" now. RTR.....great choice as they don't have to do all the research into best engine, best radio gear, best tires, how to paint, what type of loc-tite, etc, etc......they can find out those things as they need to.

With all the after-market as well as factory hop-ups, in a sense, most RTRs are "basic kits". No-one is limited to the orignal RTR, and individualization and personalization of one's vehicle is easy, if not inevitable as time goes by. If we have to live with it, it's fine by me.

oooh......I've ran on too much......sorry...I'l let this subject alone now. TY.

racerj3

I understand Sheograth's original point about people only wanting instant gratification. It show's in all aspects of our hobby, it even affects whats "popular" in our hobby. If there isn't an available RTR for a segment it largely becomes ignored. For instance pan car oval racing, back in the early 1990's oval racing ruled the RC hobby, people knew you had to build a kit, they were fine with that and had fun with it. Now its one of the smallest segments in RC despite the fact thats its one of the best for challenging competition. You may say then why doesn't somebody make an RTR pancar? Short answer: Its impossible to make an RTR pancar. So since theres no RTR most people won't even look at that segment, and it's not the only one ignored either.

nubzorz

well i think its ok all the RTR stuff kinda breaks i bought my first rtr and so many things broke i might as well have rebuilt it only thing i havnt replaced is motor and trans everything else got wither bent or snapped or just totally annihilated from bashing

The Mad Modder

I agree 100% with sheograth. It would be great if more companies offer RTRs AND kits. Tamiya seems to be the only company that does that. A lot of companies offer RTR's and prebuilts, but no kits. I also find it sad that there are quite a few people who will go to the grave without the slightest idea how their rc's work. They just slap them on the counter of the hobby shop and say "fix it" like sheograth said. I know people who have to go to the shop and shell out $50 and more every time their nitro needs tuning. Truly sad.[]

J.D.T

If you are looking for kits discover tamiya, while they do offer some rtrs the kit is the mainstay of tamiyas product line. At least 30 kits currently available to build.

RCtruckRacer

The RTR/Kit diatribe has been interesting, to say the least. I have always been fond of kits - I enjoy my time at my workbench and love putting kits together. Several years ago, when I first got into racing, I felt that buying an RTR was tantamount to buying a Revell model that has already been put together: What's the point? But now I realize there is room for everyone in this hobby.

People that prefer kits are a much smaller community and they need to realize that the RTR folks are putting a whole bunch of money into the coffers, and are helping make the R/C world go around. But we also need to make sure the manufacturers know that we are still here and we need to be represented.
The RTR folks need to understand they wouldn't be here if it wasn't for so many of us building the kits in the first place and getting others into the hobby.

The only issue I see is where a manuf. might feel that supporting the kit population is not viable due to the lower profit margin. Sure, they can make money on kits but they make so much more on RTR's why bother with kits? It's a business decision that I cannot blame them for, but it is a dissapointing trend for those of us in the RTR/Kit minority.

We can plead with the manuf's to make more kits available, but the bottom line is that sales will dictate what happens. It's hard to fault a company for doing what's best for itself.

DaveG55

Argess and RCtruckRacer,
Maybe, just maybe, if the new Revo Platinum takes off, Traxxas will get the idea that there is a market for Rollers, ARR's and kits and start selling more of their vehicles like that.
And if Traxxas starts it, the other big companies will probably follow suit
We can only hope. And support the companies that make the products you/we want.

To the original question. I agree that the rc industry is really just a reflection of society. All most people want is what they want and they want it now. Weather it's rc or lunch or drive through car washes, liquor stores, etc, etc, etc... I don't think that rtr rc's are hurting anything. In fact, IMHO, if it weren't for rtr's this hobby would not see or have much of what we do have. All the money rtr's have brought into the hobby have let the rc companies turn high end, leading edge techonolgy into everyday mainstream stuff. Just look at brushless systems and DSS radios for example.