combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I am going to get involved with SSC this year, some fresh meat for you seasoned, grizzled pros. I have no idea which designs are the most competitive, so I wonder if one of you could give me some specifics, like air foil, span , all up weight, etc. I'm guessing that the best designs would resemble stretched out control line combat planes. Any info will be appreciated.

Montague

You want the weight as close to 2.5lbs as you can get.
Wingspan, around 64" or a big longer works well.
Wingarea, over 600sqin is good, you want the lightest wingloading you can manage.

Airfoil, there are lots of options, but you want something with low drag and a fair amount of lift, but most important is a late and soft stall, nothing abrubt. Blunting the wing LE helps with this. (I use my own designed airfoil. It looks kinda like a Clark-Y, but with the high point moved back slightly, and a tad thinner, I think).

However, the most important thing is pilot skill, you can't make up for it with equipment, and all of the competitive designs are really pretty equal.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the reply, Kirk.Looks like controlling wing twist is an issue.,is there a preferred covering method to control this? Can a single 85 MG servo per flap get the job done?

Lou Melancon

CombatPigg,
You might go to www.texascombat.com , www.georgiacombat.com , www.hattrickrc.com , www.jkaerotech.com for info on SSC warbirds. You can find info on open style at www.downhomerc.com and www.tufflight.com

The design parameters I see used most often for SSC Warbirds is:
Fuse foam length (back of spinner to elevator hinge line) 29-31"
Overall fuse height - 5"-6"
Wing saddle 7" back from rear of spinner.

The airfoils vary. Many are using the E203, I've had good success with the Lee Liddle sorta Clark Y airfoil. The RC Combat web site has a motherlode of data at www.rccombat.com

Good luck.

Hat Trick

That's the great thing about SSC. Most designs are pretty equal. The warbirds are just as competative as the open designs. I think they even fly a bit better!

Low wing loading and a good running engine are the keys!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks to both Lou and Hat Trick! I have seen very little RC combat and never seen any SSC., so all I can do right now is guess that inside loops and inside banked turns are the maneuvers that are most common, therefore you need a lifting airfoil like the E203, but is it neccesary to have the under cambered portion of the E203 if I'm going to build a flying wing instead of an aileron/ elevator ship? The undercambered part of the airfoil would probably be hard to monokote.

Hat Trick

Most combat planes are covered with nylon material either from a fabric store or a kite supplier. The nylon adds a ton of strength and helps diperse the energy of a midair into the foam. Monokote just shatters.

It's really pretty easy to apply once you get the hang of it! People are figureing out new ways to put it on still!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HAT TRICK , I appreciate the time that you are taking with me on getting started. As you can probably tell I think half the fun of the hobby is the journey that you take to get competitive, and with me scratch building has always been part of it . It would seem a hollow victory to win with someone elses' creation. I am not saying that I haven't made a career out of stealing other peoples' ideas though. But it is still fun for me to compile the best ideas and then try to come up with my own version. Getting back to the ''how to " stuff, how do I apply the rip stop nylon to the foam? Water based polyurethane? I would greatly appreciate any of you combat gurus to chime in on how to do this.

thojo

At the end of the day, a win is a win is a win, there are alot of good designs with none of them being a dominate design. I do agree with you on the pride of flying your own designs, that is a big part of it for me as well. You have builders and you have flyers, its all good! I started out buying 3 different kits, just to see how they were put together and to get the instructions that go along with the kits. I've stolen many of these ideas and cobbled them together into something I finally feel is competitive on any level. It only took a year to do it, with many diversions along the way.

The biggest part of making a competitive design was to fly it enough to know where the c/g was, and what was an acceptable range. Once dialed in, most any place can be competitive, but if your not comfortable with its tendancies and you don't have the c/g figured out correctly, you'll never place high, no matter whos design your flying!

Also, I like a 60" wing in SSC, at those speeds, they roll better than the longer wings...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the reply, THOJO! I'm still wondering how to apply the nylon directly to the white foam? I'm guessing that 3M spray adhesive could be used to get the material to stick to the foam, and then saturate the cloth with either poly urethane or epoxy resin? Any advice here would be most welcome.

Montague

I wouldn't use white foam in any combat wing, it's too fragile. Most guys use 40psi blue or pink foam. Personally, I use 25psi pink stuff (foamular 250). (Dow hi-load 40 is the blue 40psi stuff, Foamular 400 is the pink stuff).

I've done nylon by painting the wing with WBP (water based polyurathane), then laying on the nylon, then putting on a top cote, and squegeeing out all the excess. It makes a mess, but works well.

However, personally, I've stopped using nylon (or polyester), I've gone to just using tape. It doesn't shatter like monokote, as the overlaps and edges keep a tear from travling, it's light, and is extremely easy to field repair. (I find nylon and polyester harder to field repair. Not impossible, just harder).

But there are so many ways to do it, and they all work well, it's personal preference. I don't think my way is better, it's just what I like.

Oh, on the airfoils, you'd be surprised how well a clark-y type airfoil can loop outside, though most guys find they don't make outside moves all that often.

However, you may find you like outside loops or turns, so you may want a design that suites your style. The airfoil I use suites my flying style and the maneuvers I personally prefer. It's a bit draggier than some others, but I don't depend on speed. And it does dump some speed in a tight corner. However it gives me some extremely tight turns and a very late stall with a very broad CG range, which suites me well.

So, half the fun of designing your own ship is building it to suit your flying style.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks for the info Kirk! The tape idea sounds good to me. I think I've read some where that the bi-directional strapping tape is the kind to get, is this true?

Hat Trick

Ripstop can be applied as stated with WBP. I've been hearing good things about using Icarex which is a nylon fabric covered with polycarbonate. It is stiff like paper. To apply it you spray the fabric and the wing with 3m-77. If you have the new fromula 77 you have to apply it very carefully to the foam as it has solvents now that will attach foam. If you spray from a distance in light coats the solvent evaporates before it hits the foam. Practice on scraps first! Then you iron on the fabric pretty much like monokote. www.hangemhigh has it. I'm not sure if the URL is right or not. A light coat of WBP to seal it 100% is recommended.

If you want to purchase CNC cut wing panels I can help you out. They can have the slots for wing spars and LE rods precut.

www.hattrickrc.com

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hat Trick, thanks for the information, especially about the link to your site! you've got some very well thought out and clever looking planes there. I will definitely look you up if I run into a brick wall on my do it yourself quest.

thojo

Use the bidirectional "Bi-di" tape sparingly. It can add alot of weight to your wings. Bi-di is typically used on the leading edge and over the spars for strength, then cover the wing with the colored packing tape, which is sometimes called "zagi" tape. A good source for the colored packing tape is www.fast-pack.com, reasonable prices and good shipping...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Thanks, THOJO! I don't want my planes to be combat pigs! So far I've got a 64 inch flying wing put together all mocked up with out covering and it weighs 2lbs 1oz. I sunk in a 3/8 inch dia. kite rod into it, and figure the rest of the strength would come from strapping tape, so I suppose I'll just keep winding it with tape until I reach 38 ozs, then finish up with packaging tape or FASCAL.

Lou Melancon

CombatPigg,
I haven't heard the word FASCAL in years relating to covering and only then from the CL combat crowd. Are you and ex CL Combat guy? Do you have a Digital Camera that can be used to post a picture of your wing?

On airfoils I am using the Lee Liddle airfoil on my SSC planes. Although flat bottomed it turns tighter for me than others I've used. I think its thickness and blunt leading edge are what makes it work for me at SSC speeds.

For covering I used both fabric and tape this year. Each has its pros and cons. The reason for tape is ease of application and ease of repair. The downside is that you cannot easily paint it which you might want to do if building war birds. Ripstop normally has a coating on one side. This means that fluids can barely flow through it. This makes it more difficult to apply. Other fabrics like nylon or polyester without the ripstop weave allow fluids to flow through easily, making them easier to apply, but less tear resistant than ripstop nylon.

If you need to paint you will need to use fabric or some other paintable surface, otherwise tape is faster and far easier to apply and mend.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hi there LOU! First I want to thank you and all the rest who took the time to get me going.Yes I am a CL Combat guy.,not in the same league with LIDDLE and WILCOX, but I've been at it since the mid 1980's. At my very first BLADDER GRABBER I watched a 14 or 15 year old Mike Wilcox win the contest that had at least 60 entries. I thought to my self that it was a case of beginners luck, just a fluke but since then Wilcox has proven that he is a half decent pilot. I'll bet he's a killer in RC combat also. I dont have a camera, butt I can tell you about the wing. The panels are 31in. long, the root is 11in.,9in. at the tips. the L.E. tapers,the T.E. is straight. the airfoil is 1 3/8in. thick. The wingtip template is a 78% copy of the root template. the flaps are 2in. wide, and I left a 2in. wide gap between them in the center to give me a fingerhold for launches. The airfoil has a flat bottom, and could be described as a semi semetrical version of a CL combat job. Total wing area , flaps included is 697. For the main spar, I sunk a 3/8 dia fiberglass tube in a trench that I dadoed on the tablesaw. gorilla glued it in, and used a piece of 3/8 balsa to cap off the trench flush with the bottom of the wing. I used fiberglass joint tape and 3M 77 to stiffen the wing span wise, and used clear packing tape for covering, and hinging the flaps. All up weight is 44ozs, so I will put the next one on a diet. The flaps need to be set with a couple of degrees of up for level flight. the pivot point on the control horns is 7/8 in. from the top of the flaps and the 4th hole out on the servo arm. The CG is 3 inch from the LE at the root, to get it there I had to mount the engine 7 1/4 inches from back of prop to LE. The fuse is a pair of 3/8 by 3/8 maple stick that run the entire length ,balsa filler between the main beams, and 1/16 ply to sandwich it together. Engine is upright, fuse is 2 inches wide. It flies better than I hoped, or figured that it would, it even down wind launches ok. I'm amazed that the little .15 can lug this monstrosity around so well. forgot to mention that it has evil looking winglets made out of 1/8th lite ply. [this is all I think lite ply should be used for , ornamental stuff]. Whew,I'm out of breath! Thanks again for the time that you all have taken getting me on the straight and narrow and happy Thanksgiving

Joe Ortiz

My Feedback: (75)

Combatpigg, here is a link that I just found, it has tips on applying ripstop, I'm getting into combat myself and this helps alot. [link]http://www.georgiacombat.com/techniques.html[/link]
Joe[8D]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI THERE JOE! Thanks that is a real informative site!