Kingtech K-180
04-30-2012, 11:03 AM
#29
RE: Kingtech K-180
Thanks berry mine is fine just like it is, I just wanted to know for product knowledge and if I ever have to send mine in for some reason its nice to have the option
I may upgrade it after the 1st 25hour since I could use the extra punch when I put the wing stores on the F-16
if I dont sale it at KY jets
I may upgrade it after the 1st 25hour since I could use the extra punch when I put the wing stores on the F-16
if I dont sale it at KY jets
04-30-2012, 02:08 PM
#30
RE: Kingtech K-180
ORIGINAL: jetpilot
Curious, Ive noticed other brands being nearly 1cm. Wonder what really is accurate?
Scott
Curious, Ive noticed other brands being nearly 1cm. Wonder what really is accurate?
Scott
04-30-2012, 03:30 PM
#31
RE: Kingtech K-180
Just an observation regarding probe. But what data supports the claim of being cooler running engine? There are two Kingtechs listed in Performance Comparisons in Jet International and its not really supportive of that.
Im not critizing the brand, just a curious question. I honestly dont really pay too much attention to temps, or care for that matter, but i dont think i ever recall seeing a 780 before. But if its supposed to run at 720 and the fix is to pull out egt 1mm, then I guess its that easy! Ive never messed with my egt's except when I owned RAM back 12 years ago.
The probe depth is obviously a variable of temperature. Obviously not a standardized location or installment.
The pic below shows over one centimeter of egt inside tailcone, but it is bent and laying on tailcone and not probing into exhaust air. i dont know how the kingtech egt is installed. Maybe they are easily bumped and moved.
Just making an observation that: could it be possible that the MAX EGT numbers are just a reflection of EGT location or depth?
I dont really give a crap if it runs 730 or 780, but Im sure it plays a significant role on turbine life. A different brand might be running hotter, but could it be the probe is just further in?
It clearly states in Jet Internationl magazine in Performance Comparisons regarding MAX EGT that "Exhaust gas teperature is nominal as the actual EGT varies substantially depending on the exact position of the sensor"
So how can anyone claim a cooler engine when you just move the EGT?
Scott
Im not critizing the brand, just a curious question. I honestly dont really pay too much attention to temps, or care for that matter, but i dont think i ever recall seeing a 780 before. But if its supposed to run at 720 and the fix is to pull out egt 1mm, then I guess its that easy! Ive never messed with my egt's except when I owned RAM back 12 years ago.
The probe depth is obviously a variable of temperature. Obviously not a standardized location or installment.
The pic below shows over one centimeter of egt inside tailcone, but it is bent and laying on tailcone and not probing into exhaust air. i dont know how the kingtech egt is installed. Maybe they are easily bumped and moved.
Just making an observation that: could it be possible that the MAX EGT numbers are just a reflection of EGT location or depth?
I dont really give a crap if it runs 730 or 780, but Im sure it plays a significant role on turbine life. A different brand might be running hotter, but could it be the probe is just further in?
It clearly states in Jet Internationl magazine in Performance Comparisons regarding MAX EGT that "Exhaust gas teperature is nominal as the actual EGT varies substantially depending on the exact position of the sensor"
So how can anyone claim a cooler engine when you just move the EGT?
Scott
04-30-2012, 05:33 PM
#32
RE: Kingtech K-180
recall seeing a 780 before.
That's my fault If you look carefully my temp probe was not screwed down and was too far inside the cone,
05-01-2012, 11:01 AM
#33
RE: Kingtech K-180
ORIGINAL: jetpilot
Just an observation regarding probe. But what data supports the claim of being cooler running engine? There are two Kingtechs listed in Performance Comparisons in Jet International and its not really supportive of that.
Scott
Just an observation regarding probe. But what data supports the claim of being cooler running engine? There are two Kingtechs listed in Performance Comparisons in Jet International and its not really supportive of that.
Scott
05-01-2012, 02:02 PM
#34
RE: Kingtech K-180
Scott, KingTech isn't flawless by any means, as we had our share of growing pains, but thank goodness temperature hasn't been one of them.
I'm pretty sure if one sticks the probe in further than manufacturer suggested, will get a hotter reading, likewise, if you pull it out some, cooler it reads. Why there's such a difference in the depth of insertion between brands?? Perhaps types of probes are different? or perhaps ECU auto compensates for the final value based on set up? As far as with Gaspar Xicoy ECU, it requires 2mm to be inserted into the cone, and I remember Jet Central manual also concurs at 1/16" to 2mm, that's 1.6 to 2mm.
Here's something from Gaspar's manual that could be found on our site:
4.4 Thermocouple
The FADEC use a thermocouple of type " K ", apt until 1100ºC. The provided standard thermocouple consists of a wire of Inconel of
1.5mm of diameter finished in a connector who fits directly on the FADEC. The recommended installation consists of practising a drill of
1,5 mm in the exhaust nozzle of the engine and inserting the end of the thermocouple so that it be 2mm within the flow of exhaust
gases. Because the sensible zone to the temperature is the end of the thermocouple in any case DO NOT CUT it since it will be
destroyed. Also, do not bend it with pliers or other utensils that cause very acute angles of curvature. The installation is due by
hand and the curves must have the greater radius possible. In principle any type of thermocouple " k " can be installed, but it is
necessary to consider the thermal inertia of it, since the temperature of the engine can raise much quickly that the one of the
thermocouple and cause not controlled situations of overheating.
Anyways Scott, I think you raised some very good questions and comments, perhaps one day we could have you to run a KT in one of your many beautiful jets
Cheers,
Barry
I'm pretty sure if one sticks the probe in further than manufacturer suggested, will get a hotter reading, likewise, if you pull it out some, cooler it reads. Why there's such a difference in the depth of insertion between brands?? Perhaps types of probes are different? or perhaps ECU auto compensates for the final value based on set up? As far as with Gaspar Xicoy ECU, it requires 2mm to be inserted into the cone, and I remember Jet Central manual also concurs at 1/16" to 2mm, that's 1.6 to 2mm.
Here's something from Gaspar's manual that could be found on our site:
4.4 Thermocouple
The FADEC use a thermocouple of type " K ", apt until 1100ºC. The provided standard thermocouple consists of a wire of Inconel of
1.5mm of diameter finished in a connector who fits directly on the FADEC. The recommended installation consists of practising a drill of
1,5 mm in the exhaust nozzle of the engine and inserting the end of the thermocouple so that it be 2mm within the flow of exhaust
gases. Because the sensible zone to the temperature is the end of the thermocouple in any case DO NOT CUT it since it will be
destroyed. Also, do not bend it with pliers or other utensils that cause very acute angles of curvature. The installation is due by
hand and the curves must have the greater radius possible. In principle any type of thermocouple " k " can be installed, but it is
necessary to consider the thermal inertia of it, since the temperature of the engine can raise much quickly that the one of the
thermocouple and cause not controlled situations of overheating.
Anyways Scott, I think you raised some very good questions and comments, perhaps one day we could have you to run a KT in one of your many beautiful jets
Cheers,
Barry
05-01-2012, 05:49 PM
#35
RE: Kingtech K-180
RE: Kingtech K-180
Barry,
Thanks for the thorough explanation and excerpt from gaspar manual.
I've honestly have not heard anything bad about king tech and the brand seems to have a good following of happy customers. I've read numerous threads regarding you and your excellent service.
I'm not taking a jab at the company. Im just noticing that the placement and installation of egt seems to vary from each manufacturer. Has me curious as to "what is really correct and why" . Then this made me question all the numbers listed on the comparisons chart(all of them). I had never considered this number being so subjective. Then the disclaimer about egt location.
I have come to kingtech defense before in past as they actually hit advertised specifications. Although I thought saying it was a "cooler" running turbine might be an aggressive statement, seeing that egt placement seems to be a critical variable.
Seems to be a giant battle in such a small market. First to last separated by microns.
When the comments came up earlier in the thread about temps and the egt probe location, I looked at some of my motors and the depth of egt, thus the inquiries.
I see now that some brands have 2mm, while some are 10-12mm. seems to be pretty significant. It may simply be a different style egt.
With a good warranty, I guess temps aren't super crucial.
I learn something new here all the time!
I appreciate your response!
Ever thought about changing the aesthetics? Definitely has brand recognition though.
Best Regards,
Scott
Barry,
Thanks for the thorough explanation and excerpt from gaspar manual.
I've honestly have not heard anything bad about king tech and the brand seems to have a good following of happy customers. I've read numerous threads regarding you and your excellent service.
I'm not taking a jab at the company. Im just noticing that the placement and installation of egt seems to vary from each manufacturer. Has me curious as to "what is really correct and why" . Then this made me question all the numbers listed on the comparisons chart(all of them). I had never considered this number being so subjective. Then the disclaimer about egt location.
I have come to kingtech defense before in past as they actually hit advertised specifications. Although I thought saying it was a "cooler" running turbine might be an aggressive statement, seeing that egt placement seems to be a critical variable.
Seems to be a giant battle in such a small market. First to last separated by microns.
When the comments came up earlier in the thread about temps and the egt probe location, I looked at some of my motors and the depth of egt, thus the inquiries.
I see now that some brands have 2mm, while some are 10-12mm. seems to be pretty significant. It may simply be a different style egt.
With a good warranty, I guess temps aren't super crucial.
I learn something new here all the time!
I appreciate your response!
Ever thought about changing the aesthetics? Definitely has brand recognition though.
Best Regards,
Scott
05-02-2012, 05:05 AM
#36
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RE: Kingtech K-180
ORIGINAL: marquisvns
Thank you Basil!
Like I told Basil, the 180 does have the same combustion chamber and injectors as well as the peak RPM as the 170, but that's where the similarity ends, the entire set of aerodynamic components is different, from compressor wheel down to the exhaust nozzle. The 180 will enjoy better fuel efficiency as well.
Barry
Thank you Basil!
Like I told Basil, the 180 does have the same combustion chamber and injectors as well as the peak RPM as the 170, but that's where the similarity ends, the entire set of aerodynamic components is different, from compressor wheel down to the exhaust nozzle. The 180 will enjoy better fuel efficiency as well.
Barry
Mav
05-02-2012, 05:27 AM
#37
RE: Kingtech K-180
ORIGINAL: Mavrik!
If same combustion chamber and injectors, how can fuel efficiency/consumption improve?
Mav
ORIGINAL: marquisvns
Thank you Basil!
Like I told Basil, the 180 does have the same combustion chamber and injectors as well as the peak RPM as the 170, but that's where the similarity ends, the entire set of aerodynamic components is different, from compressor wheel down to the exhaust nozzle. The 180 will enjoy better fuel efficiency as well.
Barry
Thank you Basil!
Like I told Basil, the 180 does have the same combustion chamber and injectors as well as the peak RPM as the 170, but that's where the similarity ends, the entire set of aerodynamic components is different, from compressor wheel down to the exhaust nozzle. The 180 will enjoy better fuel efficiency as well.
Barry
Mav
05-02-2012, 09:20 AM
#38
RE: Kingtech K-180
ORIGINAL: basimpsn
I guess because other 180 class engines run a higher RPM to get the same power. Just my opinion but I could be wrong
ORIGINAL: Mavrik!
If same combustion chamber and injectors, how can fuel efficiency/consumption improve?
Mav
ORIGINAL: marquisvns
Thank you Basil!
Like I told Basil, the 180 does have the same combustion chamber and injectors as well as the peak RPM as the 170, but that's where the similarity ends, the entire set of aerodynamic components is different, from compressor wheel down to the exhaust nozzle. The 180 will enjoy better fuel efficiency as well.
Barry
Thank you Basil!
Like I told Basil, the 180 does have the same combustion chamber and injectors as well as the peak RPM as the 170, but that's where the similarity ends, the entire set of aerodynamic components is different, from compressor wheel down to the exhaust nozzle. The 180 will enjoy better fuel efficiency as well.
Barry
Mav
Barry
05-02-2012, 03:08 PM
#39
RE: Kingtech K-180
ORIGINAL: jetpilot
RE: Kingtech K-180
Barry,
Ever thought about changing the aesthetics? Definitely has brand recognition though.
Best Regards,
Scott
RE: Kingtech K-180
Barry,
Ever thought about changing the aesthetics? Definitely has brand recognition though.
Best Regards,
Scott
07-19-2012, 06:09 AM
#46
RE: Kingtech K-180
ORIGINAL: tony5548
We bought three kingtech engine.(K-180G.X1, K-140F.X2,)
My k-180G is so cool.
I look forward to his power to show.
We bought three kingtech engine.(K-180G.X1, K-140F.X2,)
My k-180G is so cool.
I look forward to his power to show.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKKoPsigW00
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RAjRfwJVuw
