A beginners guide to jets, revised
06-07-2012, 05:42 PM
#1
A beginners guide to jets, revised
So back in 2003 I wrote this article coined "So you wanna fly jets? A beginners guide to jets"
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11...tm.htm#1109761
It was a good article back in the day, however, while much has stayed the same (and those points will be copy and pasted) technology and the airplanes we fly has changed along with the average modeler, so here is my revised version. As I say, some will simply be copy and pasted, other things will be revised into MY opinion of good places to start. Take this or leave it, it's not law, not written in stone, just my personal experiences and opinions.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
My Background info (Updated from the 2003 thread of course).
I have been flying basically all my life, I suppose it was 1990 when I began flying seriously though. I guess that's 22 years now, holy crap!
I have flown many seasons of pattern, to dabbling in pylon, scale, and jets.
I began in jets like many people who have been involved in the hobby for more than 15 years did, by starting with Ducted fans. My first ducted fan was a DL Aeromodels Cyclone which I unfortunately lost on the 13th flight (yes, really) when I had an engine out situation in a very bad spot, basically I got back to the runway but was to fast and ran off the end, unfortunately, the end of the runway was a cliff that the jet plummetted down into.
With that done, I purchased a RAM750 in at the end of 1999 and built a Kangaroo in 2000. I flew the Kangaroo many times and loved it, sold it and moved onto an Aviation Design Exocet with the same RAM750 in it.
Fast forward to today and I have flown everything from Bandits and Bobcats, Kangaroo's and Kingcats, F16's, Gripens, F15's, Reaction's, Boomerangs, etc etc etc to my current Firebird and old CAI Raptor. (note, not all of the above mentioned jets were mine, but I've flown quite a few different jets over the years). I have owned turbines from RAM, AMT USA and AMT NL, Jetcat, Kingtech, Merlin, PST, Booster etc.
While I don't have all (or even most) of the answers, nor do I proclaim myself an expert, I'm willing to take the time to write about this subject for those who are new to the jet game.
So, moving right along......
__________________________________________________ _________________________
Getting prepared for jets
First thing's first, you have to ask yourself, "what is my experience?"
While there are some people who have learned on airplanes well beyond the trainer realm successfully, and are naturally talented pilots, these people are few and far between.
Chances are, if you are considering jets, you have some experience. I think there is a natural progression to follow when you are considering a jet.
1. Trainer (assuming you've never flown before)
2. Mid or low wing sport model with aerobatic capability
3. Aerobatic model, I suggest something like a curare or tiporare, these are very true airplanes, but will also introduce speed
4. Sport pylon model or some type of speed plane capable of at least 100mph.
Once you've gone through these, you have a fairly good concept of flight and what different airplanes do. Some good fast airplanes would include things like a Sig Wonder, Lanier Shrike, Weston Magnum, the older 60 size pattern birds, an old Formula one pylon racer, quickie 500's, etc. Something that can do at least 100 mph is nice to have some experience on.
The other thing I like to practice is dead stick landings. Landing an airplane without the engine running will give you a totally different sensation of your control surfaces. A jet has no prop wash over the flight surfaces. As a result, it reacts differently. When you add power in a jet, the surfaces are not immediately effective as they might be with a prop plane. A deadstick landing will teach you more how to land an airplane while keeping the speed up and "greasing it in".
The other thing I cannot stress enough is, TEACH YOURSELF TO FLY THE AIRPLANE, NEVER LET IT FLY YOU. What I mean is, ALWAYS know what your last input was, and know what attitude you are in. The perception of Jets is different than many sport models. They are also moving faster typically. Always be at least 2 steps ahead of your model or you will be in trouble quickly.
Moving on.......
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Ducted fan or Turbines?
I guess this is a section much different from 10 years ago. These days, ICDF is virtually non-existant, EDF's are becoming the rage today, and with the current style of "introductory" jets, it really comes down to what you are willing to spend money on as there are very easy flying airplanes in both categories. In fact, today, I would venture to say the current generation of turbine trainers are easier to fly than most EDF's would be.
Cost is even a difficult argument anymore because with the lower cost of turbines, and the higher cost of (comparable) EDF's (Talking BVM, Comp ARF, etc) the dollar figure is near equal in many cases.
With today's turbine technology, they have become incredibly simple and reliable to own and operate, so for this section, there are really only a few questions you need to ask yourself:
1. Am I willing to spend the money on a turbine or high power EDF, or do I want to start with a lower cost EDF?
2. Is there a place that I can fly a turbine (not all club fields these days will allow turbines)
3. What side of the hobby fills my need in terms of an airplane best (IE: if you want an introductory airplane, is there one available in an EDF?)
4. What are people around you flying? If there are lots of turbine pilots, then transitioning to turbines will be easier, same goes for EDF's.
Today's EDF's are much like Turbines, they are easy to operate, there is no dicking around like there used to be with ICDF, but they are all very high power and must command respect!
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Airframes
So now that you think you know what you want to use for a powerplant, what do you want to put it into?
Well, for your first jet, no matter how badly you want to go fast, don't look for a 200mph jet. You can go faster anytime you want, however if you blow all your money on a 200mph jet and then realize you aren't ready for it, you're stuck. Things happen quickly in jets, don't get in over your head. Don't try to jump into that massive full scale with every detail A10 either, wing loading, and the pucker factor with the costs involved can have a bigger affect on you mentally than you might think.
Consider your field, do you have pavement or grass? If you have grass then a 1/8 scale F4 with 1.5" wheels on the nose gear probably isn't going to be the best choice.
There are so many good jets on the market it's amazing these days.
Jets like The Reaction, Boomerangs, etc are so easy to fly it's easy to forget that you're flying a jet. Today's F15's, F16's, and the F22 from what I hear are also excellent choices for a first jet if you want to go scale.
Keep in mind, that if your experience level is already pretty good, you may get bored quickly with jets like a Reaction or Boomerang. Also keep in mind that just because you can fly a Boomerang well, doesn't make you ready for a heavily loaded F100. Some of today's jets are in my opnion to easy to fly and give you a false sense of security when stepping into a bigger more heavily loaded jet. You don't jump from a go cart into a Formula one car, nor should you jump from a Reaction to a fully loaded scale bird complete with armament.
At any rate, I think buying a kit is the best way to go. This way YOU learn your jet. you can source problems easier when they arise. As well, there is probably no RC model with as much plumbing and wiring as an RC jet, if you do all this yourself, then you have a far better understanding of it all. If not buying a Kit, at least buying an ARF where you have to do all your own installs so YOU know the systems in your jet.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Some notes
1. When you are building a Jet, don't cheap out on things that are the lifeline of you model. Don't put cheap cheap servo's or radio gear in, put in the best you can afford. Losing a $2000 and up model to a $20 servo really isn't worth it.
2. Have a thorough understanding of all your model, brakes, retracts, turbine etc. Knowing how everything works and what it does will greatly increase your chances of success.
3. Learn a proper maintenance schedule. Success with any model, but specifically a high tech model begins with checking and rechecking the model to make sure that everything is as it should be..
4. Take your time and don't rush into things, think it through, and really consider what your needs are with a jet. Remember, this is your first Jet, you don't need a 250mph rocket. You NEED something stable, capable of slowing down good. You NEED something reliable and easy to operate. You NEED success more than speed to begin.
5. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!! No matter how stupid you might think your question is, ask it! The only stupid question is the one you don't ask! I'm sure when I first started I drove Dean (Wichman) nuts with all the phone calls!! but I was on my own in the club, no jet guys, so Dean caught the majority of my queries. If it wasn't for Dean I'd never have been successful. I still had to do my first Jet flights on my own with my Cyclone, but it was because of his knowledge and willingness to help that I had more than one flight.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________
Conclusion
There is nothing difficult about flying most jets, just different. If you take your time, and are patient, you will be successful. Don't rush into things you aren't ready for and you won't have accidents.
Flying a jet is different, but it's not hard, it's just something you have to learn like anything else. You don't have propwash, you don't have immediate thrust.
The most important thing I think though, is respect these machines, don't let them get ahead of you, and don't forget that these are real miniature aircraft, with turbines they are real miniature jets. They deserve respect.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_11...tm.htm#1109761
It was a good article back in the day, however, while much has stayed the same (and those points will be copy and pasted) technology and the airplanes we fly has changed along with the average modeler, so here is my revised version. As I say, some will simply be copy and pasted, other things will be revised into MY opinion of good places to start. Take this or leave it, it's not law, not written in stone, just my personal experiences and opinions.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
My Background info (Updated from the 2003 thread of course).
I have been flying basically all my life, I suppose it was 1990 when I began flying seriously though. I guess that's 22 years now, holy crap!
I have flown many seasons of pattern, to dabbling in pylon, scale, and jets.
I began in jets like many people who have been involved in the hobby for more than 15 years did, by starting with Ducted fans. My first ducted fan was a DL Aeromodels Cyclone which I unfortunately lost on the 13th flight (yes, really) when I had an engine out situation in a very bad spot, basically I got back to the runway but was to fast and ran off the end, unfortunately, the end of the runway was a cliff that the jet plummetted down into.
With that done, I purchased a RAM750 in at the end of 1999 and built a Kangaroo in 2000. I flew the Kangaroo many times and loved it, sold it and moved onto an Aviation Design Exocet with the same RAM750 in it.
Fast forward to today and I have flown everything from Bandits and Bobcats, Kangaroo's and Kingcats, F16's, Gripens, F15's, Reaction's, Boomerangs, etc etc etc to my current Firebird and old CAI Raptor. (note, not all of the above mentioned jets were mine, but I've flown quite a few different jets over the years). I have owned turbines from RAM, AMT USA and AMT NL, Jetcat, Kingtech, Merlin, PST, Booster etc.
While I don't have all (or even most) of the answers, nor do I proclaim myself an expert, I'm willing to take the time to write about this subject for those who are new to the jet game.
So, moving right along......
__________________________________________________ _________________________
Getting prepared for jets
First thing's first, you have to ask yourself, "what is my experience?"
While there are some people who have learned on airplanes well beyond the trainer realm successfully, and are naturally talented pilots, these people are few and far between.
Chances are, if you are considering jets, you have some experience. I think there is a natural progression to follow when you are considering a jet.
1. Trainer (assuming you've never flown before)
2. Mid or low wing sport model with aerobatic capability
3. Aerobatic model, I suggest something like a curare or tiporare, these are very true airplanes, but will also introduce speed
4. Sport pylon model or some type of speed plane capable of at least 100mph.
Once you've gone through these, you have a fairly good concept of flight and what different airplanes do. Some good fast airplanes would include things like a Sig Wonder, Lanier Shrike, Weston Magnum, the older 60 size pattern birds, an old Formula one pylon racer, quickie 500's, etc. Something that can do at least 100 mph is nice to have some experience on.
The other thing I like to practice is dead stick landings. Landing an airplane without the engine running will give you a totally different sensation of your control surfaces. A jet has no prop wash over the flight surfaces. As a result, it reacts differently. When you add power in a jet, the surfaces are not immediately effective as they might be with a prop plane. A deadstick landing will teach you more how to land an airplane while keeping the speed up and "greasing it in".
The other thing I cannot stress enough is, TEACH YOURSELF TO FLY THE AIRPLANE, NEVER LET IT FLY YOU. What I mean is, ALWAYS know what your last input was, and know what attitude you are in. The perception of Jets is different than many sport models. They are also moving faster typically. Always be at least 2 steps ahead of your model or you will be in trouble quickly.
Moving on.......
__________________________________________________ ___________________________________
Ducted fan or Turbines?
I guess this is a section much different from 10 years ago. These days, ICDF is virtually non-existant, EDF's are becoming the rage today, and with the current style of "introductory" jets, it really comes down to what you are willing to spend money on as there are very easy flying airplanes in both categories. In fact, today, I would venture to say the current generation of turbine trainers are easier to fly than most EDF's would be.
Cost is even a difficult argument anymore because with the lower cost of turbines, and the higher cost of (comparable) EDF's (Talking BVM, Comp ARF, etc) the dollar figure is near equal in many cases.
With today's turbine technology, they have become incredibly simple and reliable to own and operate, so for this section, there are really only a few questions you need to ask yourself:
1. Am I willing to spend the money on a turbine or high power EDF, or do I want to start with a lower cost EDF?
2. Is there a place that I can fly a turbine (not all club fields these days will allow turbines)
3. What side of the hobby fills my need in terms of an airplane best (IE: if you want an introductory airplane, is there one available in an EDF?)
4. What are people around you flying? If there are lots of turbine pilots, then transitioning to turbines will be easier, same goes for EDF's.
Today's EDF's are much like Turbines, they are easy to operate, there is no dicking around like there used to be with ICDF, but they are all very high power and must command respect!
__________________________________________________ ____________________________
Airframes
So now that you think you know what you want to use for a powerplant, what do you want to put it into?
Well, for your first jet, no matter how badly you want to go fast, don't look for a 200mph jet. You can go faster anytime you want, however if you blow all your money on a 200mph jet and then realize you aren't ready for it, you're stuck. Things happen quickly in jets, don't get in over your head. Don't try to jump into that massive full scale with every detail A10 either, wing loading, and the pucker factor with the costs involved can have a bigger affect on you mentally than you might think.
Consider your field, do you have pavement or grass? If you have grass then a 1/8 scale F4 with 1.5" wheels on the nose gear probably isn't going to be the best choice.
There are so many good jets on the market it's amazing these days.
Jets like The Reaction, Boomerangs, etc are so easy to fly it's easy to forget that you're flying a jet. Today's F15's, F16's, and the F22 from what I hear are also excellent choices for a first jet if you want to go scale.
Keep in mind, that if your experience level is already pretty good, you may get bored quickly with jets like a Reaction or Boomerang. Also keep in mind that just because you can fly a Boomerang well, doesn't make you ready for a heavily loaded F100. Some of today's jets are in my opnion to easy to fly and give you a false sense of security when stepping into a bigger more heavily loaded jet. You don't jump from a go cart into a Formula one car, nor should you jump from a Reaction to a fully loaded scale bird complete with armament.
At any rate, I think buying a kit is the best way to go. This way YOU learn your jet. you can source problems easier when they arise. As well, there is probably no RC model with as much plumbing and wiring as an RC jet, if you do all this yourself, then you have a far better understanding of it all. If not buying a Kit, at least buying an ARF where you have to do all your own installs so YOU know the systems in your jet.
__________________________________________________ __________________________________
Some notes
1. When you are building a Jet, don't cheap out on things that are the lifeline of you model. Don't put cheap cheap servo's or radio gear in, put in the best you can afford. Losing a $2000 and up model to a $20 servo really isn't worth it.
2. Have a thorough understanding of all your model, brakes, retracts, turbine etc. Knowing how everything works and what it does will greatly increase your chances of success.
3. Learn a proper maintenance schedule. Success with any model, but specifically a high tech model begins with checking and rechecking the model to make sure that everything is as it should be..
4. Take your time and don't rush into things, think it through, and really consider what your needs are with a jet. Remember, this is your first Jet, you don't need a 250mph rocket. You NEED something stable, capable of slowing down good. You NEED something reliable and easy to operate. You NEED success more than speed to begin.
5. DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS!!!!!!!!! No matter how stupid you might think your question is, ask it! The only stupid question is the one you don't ask! I'm sure when I first started I drove Dean (Wichman) nuts with all the phone calls!! but I was on my own in the club, no jet guys, so Dean caught the majority of my queries. If it wasn't for Dean I'd never have been successful. I still had to do my first Jet flights on my own with my Cyclone, but it was because of his knowledge and willingness to help that I had more than one flight.
__________________________________________________ _________________________________
Conclusion
There is nothing difficult about flying most jets, just different. If you take your time, and are patient, you will be successful. Don't rush into things you aren't ready for and you won't have accidents.
Flying a jet is different, but it's not hard, it's just something you have to learn like anything else. You don't have propwash, you don't have immediate thrust.
The most important thing I think though, is respect these machines, don't let them get ahead of you, and don't forget that these are real miniature aircraft, with turbines they are real miniature jets. They deserve respect.
01-11-2013, 10:47 PM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
I found this thread and it was helpful. I also found some other information that can usher in the success of a new turbine modeler:
AMA Turbine Waiver Application: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-d.pdf
AMA Turbine Safety Regulations: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-a.pdf
Go to the members only section on AMA website and look up turbine waiver check pilots and CDs. The list has contact information to use for making an appointment for a check out with someone near your area. Prepare to drive to them since they are doing it for free.
Jet Pilot's Organization Knowledge Bank, go to http://www.jetpilots.org and hover over "Members" then click on Knowledge Bank.
Landings article from JPO Knowledge Bank: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_bank/landings.pdf
Maintenance article from JPO: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_b...aintenance.pdf
Free Tips and How-To section on BVM's website: http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/tips1.htm
Safety informtion and articles: http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/Safety/safety.htm
GO TO AT LEAST ONE JET EVENT AND WATCH. Before you have saved up for or are finished assembling/building your new turbine, go to a few events if possible and watch, listen and take mental notes or jot some things down in a notebook. This helped me tremendously. I found what people were flying, having fun and were overal successful and saw what products they were using with little to no trouble. Some stuff just works!
Make your own checklist to guarantee success and train your spotter how to go through it as you do things so there's no chance of forgetting a critical step, especially during the first few flights. The AMA turbine waiver requirements spell out pretty specific knowledge requirements, so know those things cold and practice briefing your spotter on turbine start, shutdown and immediate action items before every start...brief should be simple, but it will up the level of proficiency and safety with yourself and those around you.
I've attached a checklist that I made up. Take it and manipulate it to fit your needs and print it out...real life jet pilots use a checklist every time they fly. I could only upload it in PDF format, RCU wouldn't let me upload the Word document.
Start flying a simulator that has a turbine jet or at least a plane with flaps and retracts. This way you can get used to where your switches are going to be and decide if you like them there before flying your turbine model. Try different switch positions until you get them in places you can reach and are comfortable with.
Take a break from assembly and study your turbine owner's manual to discover how to set up your failsafe in the ECU. This is important and you'll need to be able to explain it to your waiver check pilots as part of the ground verbal knowledge test.
Batteries.
If you aren't already flying larger (100cc or bigger) planes with two batteries on the receiver and high current draw servos, you might want to learn more about battery set ups. Most everyone (including me) recommends running two receiver batteries, 6.0V minimum, with a regulator as required. With digital servos the power requirement is higher, so consider running at least 5000mah capacity between the two RX batteries in medium (100-140) sized jets (i.e. two Fromeco 2600mah packs on the RX). Large jets (140-200) benefit from having 10,000mah between the two battery packs (i.e. two Fromeco 5200mah packs on the RX). You'll want to be able to fly five or six flights before recharching. Flights are only 6-10 min with these turbines (average) but there tends to be a good bit of ground time the radio is on for start and taxi before takeoff each time the aircraft is brought to life.
Anyway, I thought there wasn't much information out there until I started digging...lots of reading. This is a great adventure!
AMA Turbine Waiver Application: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-d.pdf
AMA Turbine Safety Regulations: http://www.modelaircraft.org/files/510-a.pdf
Go to the members only section on AMA website and look up turbine waiver check pilots and CDs. The list has contact information to use for making an appointment for a check out with someone near your area. Prepare to drive to them since they are doing it for free.
Jet Pilot's Organization Knowledge Bank, go to http://www.jetpilots.org and hover over "Members" then click on Knowledge Bank.
Landings article from JPO Knowledge Bank: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_bank/landings.pdf
Maintenance article from JPO: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_b...aintenance.pdf
Free Tips and How-To section on BVM's website: http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/tips1.htm
Safety informtion and articles: http://www.bvmjets.com/Pages/Safety/safety.htm
GO TO AT LEAST ONE JET EVENT AND WATCH. Before you have saved up for or are finished assembling/building your new turbine, go to a few events if possible and watch, listen and take mental notes or jot some things down in a notebook. This helped me tremendously. I found what people were flying, having fun and were overal successful and saw what products they were using with little to no trouble. Some stuff just works!
Make your own checklist to guarantee success and train your spotter how to go through it as you do things so there's no chance of forgetting a critical step, especially during the first few flights. The AMA turbine waiver requirements spell out pretty specific knowledge requirements, so know those things cold and practice briefing your spotter on turbine start, shutdown and immediate action items before every start...brief should be simple, but it will up the level of proficiency and safety with yourself and those around you.
I've attached a checklist that I made up. Take it and manipulate it to fit your needs and print it out...real life jet pilots use a checklist every time they fly. I could only upload it in PDF format, RCU wouldn't let me upload the Word document.
Start flying a simulator that has a turbine jet or at least a plane with flaps and retracts. This way you can get used to where your switches are going to be and decide if you like them there before flying your turbine model. Try different switch positions until you get them in places you can reach and are comfortable with.
Take a break from assembly and study your turbine owner's manual to discover how to set up your failsafe in the ECU. This is important and you'll need to be able to explain it to your waiver check pilots as part of the ground verbal knowledge test.
Batteries.
If you aren't already flying larger (100cc or bigger) planes with two batteries on the receiver and high current draw servos, you might want to learn more about battery set ups. Most everyone (including me) recommends running two receiver batteries, 6.0V minimum, with a regulator as required. With digital servos the power requirement is higher, so consider running at least 5000mah capacity between the two RX batteries in medium (100-140) sized jets (i.e. two Fromeco 2600mah packs on the RX). Large jets (140-200) benefit from having 10,000mah between the two battery packs (i.e. two Fromeco 5200mah packs on the RX). You'll want to be able to fly five or six flights before recharching. Flights are only 6-10 min with these turbines (average) but there tends to be a good bit of ground time the radio is on for start and taxi before takeoff each time the aircraft is brought to life.
Anyway, I thought there wasn't much information out there until I started digging...lots of reading. This is a great adventure!
01-12-2013, 05:39 AM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
Jeremy&Tiger,
EXCELLENT articles for anyone considering getting into R/C jets. Jeremy's update was right on the mark and Tiger's Checklist was superb. I printed copies for distribution at various events including a Model Forum in Syracuse, NY later this month. Credit will be given to both.
I'm also mentoring a couple of jet guys in my local club who are currently in the ICDF and EDF stages andI'll host a jet rally later this season. Currently, my local club has a ban on turbines andIhope to have this lifted. Your articles will also help with this action. Many thanks again for contributing these posts.
Art ARRO, Sr. Jet Pilot
EXCELLENT articles for anyone considering getting into R/C jets. Jeremy's update was right on the mark and Tiger's Checklist was superb. I printed copies for distribution at various events including a Model Forum in Syracuse, NY later this month. Credit will be given to both.
I'm also mentoring a couple of jet guys in my local club who are currently in the ICDF and EDF stages andI'll host a jet rally later this season. Currently, my local club has a ban on turbines andIhope to have this lifted. Your articles will also help with this action. Many thanks again for contributing these posts.
Art ARRO, Sr. Jet Pilot
01-12-2013, 10:03 AM
#10
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
+1 Great Articles. With your permissions, I would like to do the same and distribute copies of these articles to our local clubs. Our local Hemet Model Masters field is now turbine friendly during the non-fire season. We have seen a significant growth in daily jet activities at our local field, so we are putting together some jet training lessons for the new jet pilots. These are great articles and will surely help us promote jet flyings in a safe and enjoyable surrounding.
Here is our local club info.
http://www.hemetmodelmasters.org/topdirections and our new Turbine News chapter added to our news letter. I will contact our editors and see if we can reprint these articles in our news letter. Many thanks to our board of directors for their support.
Smooth paved 650' runway with typical Southern California weather! (except today, low 30s!)
Mike
Here is our local club info.
http://www.hemetmodelmasters.org/topdirections and our new Turbine News chapter added to our news letter. I will contact our editors and see if we can reprint these articles in our news letter. Many thanks to our board of directors for their support.
Smooth paved 650' runway with typical Southern California weather! (except today, low 30s!)
Mike
01-12-2013, 11:16 PM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
ORIGINAL: mikedenilin
+1 Great Articles. With your permissions, I would like to do the same and distribute copies of these articles to our local clubs. Our local Hemet Model Masters field is now turbine friendly during the non-fire season. We have seen a significant growth in daily jet activities at our local field, so we are putting together some jet training lessons for the new jet pilots. These are great articles and will surely help us promote jet flyings in a safe and enjoyable surrounding.
Mike
+1 Great Articles. With your permissions, I would like to do the same and distribute copies of these articles to our local clubs. Our local Hemet Model Masters field is now turbine friendly during the non-fire season. We have seen a significant growth in daily jet activities at our local field, so we are putting together some jet training lessons for the new jet pilots. These are great articles and will surely help us promote jet flyings in a safe and enjoyable surrounding.
Mike
ORIGINAL: Art ARRO
Jeremy& Tiger,
EXCELLENT articles for anyone considering getting into R/C jets. Jeremy's update was right on the mark and Tiger's Checklist was superb. I printed copies for distribution at various events including a Model Forum in Syracuse, NY later this month. Credit will be given to both.
I'm also mentoring a couple of jet guys in my local club who are currently in the ICDF and EDF stages and I'll host a jet rally later this season. Currently, my local club has a ban on turbines and I hope to have this lifted. Your articles will also help with this action. Many thanks again for contributing these posts.
Art ARRO, Sr. Jet Pilot
Jeremy& Tiger,
EXCELLENT articles for anyone considering getting into R/C jets. Jeremy's update was right on the mark and Tiger's Checklist was superb. I printed copies for distribution at various events including a Model Forum in Syracuse, NY later this month. Credit will be given to both.
I'm also mentoring a couple of jet guys in my local club who are currently in the ICDF and EDF stages and I'll host a jet rally later this season. Currently, my local club has a ban on turbines and I hope to have this lifted. Your articles will also help with this action. Many thanks again for contributing these posts.
Art ARRO, Sr. Jet Pilot
Also, consider the following jet turbine training syllabus - I'm interested in see yours if you have one:
Draft RC Turbine Aircraft Flight Training Syllabus
Assumptions:
A. The student is willing to learn and can set his/her pride to the side during training in the name of meeting several criteria before moving to the next step in training.
B. The student has flown a minimum of 50 flights on high performance aircraft capable of over 100 miles per hour.
C. The student is able to fly non-high performance aircraft confidently and with wind.
1. My turbine training plan starts with a Conventional Prop Trainer aircraft like an Arrow, Ugly Stick or Avistar for step by step training on basic maneuvers to confirm (or establish) a skill base. The basics must be solidified before moving forward. If maneuvers are demonstrated correctly, then I'll move right along to the next step. Solid habit patterns with the most basic aircraft are a required foundation for success flying any complex aircraft.
1a. Landing patterns, both directions. Constant rate of decent approaches with few, calculated throttle corrections. Square patterns and constant radius patterns should be observed.
1b. Go-arounds using "correct procedure" - throttle, level, gain speed, smooth pull up to 10 degree climb out straight down the runway, turn crosswind when past the end of the designated runway.
1c. Level figure eights and simple aerobatics WITH throttle control. Example: Loop starting with level flight at half throttle, then full throttle on the way up with half throttle when level inverted and idle when pointing straight down, then smoothly back to half throttle while reaching level flight.
1d. Takeoffs and landings WITH rudder control to maintain centerline!
1e. Mains only touch and goes probably should be a goal for aspiring turbine pilots, but not absolutely necessary.
2. Next is the simulator using a turbine with flaps and retracts.
2a. Learn switch positions and basic turbine flight characteristics with actual transmitter the turbine student will use for flight if possible.
2b. Learn how to use drag to manage speed and carry power through the final turn to land so spool up time is not a factor in a go-around situation.
2c. Learn how to apply brakes and simultaneously maintain directional control on centerline for landing.
3. Third is the new foam Habu with flaps and retracts. Do the flights practiced on the simulator in real life. Good foundational training will be solidified with application at the field with wind, sun and natural distractions.
3a. Transmitter switch locations should already be familiar. Practice take-off, gear up ASAP, straight and level climb out, flaps up before reaching full speed.
3b. Small flap deflections will give enough drag (10 degrees for take-off and approach flaps, 30 degrees for full landing flaps).
3c. Power on final approach with full landing flaps is an essential part of the learning curve.
3d. Aiming for specific touch-down locations is required before moving on to the next stage. An aspiring RC turbine pilot needs to be able to land "in the zone" on the runway. Each runway will require a different level of proficiency, but being able to hit a 20 foot long section every time with the Habu will build good habits. The aircraft should touch down before reaching the second 1/3 of the runway.
4. Next use the foam complex Habu with spool up lag programmed into the transmitter (3 seconds) to fly the full turbine waiver check profile. This is a confidence building phase. The goal is to make a waiver check preflight brief and maneuvers familiar so there are few surprises during the real thing.
4a. Habit patterns are further reinforced with the turbine lag training. Takeoff, figure eight, two aerobatic maneuvers with looping/rolling elements, high speed circuit, go-around, landing within 6 min.
4b. Before connecting the battery and taxiing out, have the student brief the required items for the waiver check (start/shutdown procedures and emergency considerations, fire-fighting equipment/ phone number, and turbine lag management).
4c. Go-arounds while managing simulated spool up lag (by transmitter programmed 3 second power ramp) with solid procedures: make the decision to go around, smooth full power input, flaps to approach setting, arrest descent, gear up, accelerate, flaps up all while maintaining runway heading, then turn crosswind when at least beyond the designated end of the runway. This procedure should be methodical and smooth.
5. Last is to ask them if they mind a visual check over their new (or used) turbine aircraft to make sure it is ready for start-up. Ask them to correct anything not in order before starting, make a recommendation on how to adjust or fix the item…resist the urge to do it for them!
5a. A new turbine will have to be properly primed to avoid a hot start or fire, ECU programmed for TX and fail safe set up to shut down if signal lost.
5b. The AMA recommends a person be on a buddy box for up to five flights on a turbine jet before a turbine waiver check. It is best if the student used their turbine aircraft, radio and similar buddy box. Any small issues that the student’s aircraft has should be able to be worked out within the five flights. Recommend flap deflection adjustments or rate adjustments if required. Allow the aircraft owner to make these changes and only assist, let them make the changes.
5c. A person might be confident and ready for turbine waiver check flight after five flights on a buddy box (or with experienced spotter if buddy box is not available). Practice all correct procedures so they become habit. Increase the number of flights if the person needs more practice to be comfortable and SAFE.
6. One option is for an experienced spotter to hold the fire extinguisher during preflight and turbine starts. Read off checklist items out loud as the new person completes each item to make sure a good solid foundation is developed. The person can elect not to use the checklist when they are on their own after the waiver check.
7. Recommend the aspiring RC turbine pilot for turbine waiver check when they are ready and provide names of turbine check CD and waiver check pilot to call for an appointment in the local area or a short drive away. Might be worth providing a simple certificate to the trainee that shows the competencies they've accomplished and that they are recommended for the turbine waiver check flight.
8. Give them a laminated, spiral bound copy of a checklist so they can review at a later date, or at minimum, for proficiency at the beginning of a new season.
01-13-2013, 12:03 AM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
ORIGINAL: LGM Graphix
Conclusion
There is nothing difficult about flying most jets, just different. If you take your time, and are patient, you will be successful. Don't rush into things you aren't ready for and you won't have accidents.
Flying a jet is different, but it's not hard, it's just something you have to learn like anything else. You don't have propwash, you don't have immediate thrust.
The most important thing I think though, is respect these machines, don't let them get ahead of you, and don't forget that these are real miniature aircraft, with turbines they are real miniature jets. They deserve respect.
Conclusion
There is nothing difficult about flying most jets, just different. If you take your time, and are patient, you will be successful. Don't rush into things you aren't ready for and you won't have accidents.
Flying a jet is different, but it's not hard, it's just something you have to learn like anything else. You don't have propwash, you don't have immediate thrust.
The most important thing I think though, is respect these machines, don't let them get ahead of you, and don't forget that these are real miniature aircraft, with turbines they are real miniature jets. They deserve respect.
This "difference" is what drove me to develop an RC turbine training syllabus...while still in draft...it is something that I might use down the road, please pass feedback if you have it!
I also received some good advice recently from an experienced jet modeler in the South East, Mr. Larry Lewis. I've only changed wording that makes his advice applicable to all turbines where it was specific to a certain brand.
Periodic Maintenance and Care (adapted from advice by Larry “RCLarry” Lewis)
1. Fuel System.
Transport and store a turbine jet with a low fuel level, but with a little still in the tank to keep air out of the system. For long term storage (more than 30 days), drain the fuel system except for the air trap. When the aircraft is refueled the air trap is flushed of old fuel. If algae has set in (not common) you may have to change the filter sock in the air trap.
2. Air System.
Store air systems with partial pressure if the air lines do not disconnect, no need to bleed them to zero psi. If they do disconnect when removing the wings this will take care of itself.
Lube the air system with thin oil like “Thin-O-Lube” from BVM, but be careful here. Air needs to compress. You want to add just enough fluid to get a thin coating on the o-rings in the cylinders and valves. A little oil can go a long way! Doing this before storage and before starting new season of flying.
3. Brake Lube.
Yes! In fact, many of the brake systems out there today have so much grabbing force you HAVE to add lube for slippage. Use something like “Super -O- Lube” from BVM. Lube adds life to the o-rings or disc makes it a lot easier to set up brakes for a more linear braking rate.
How much lube? That requires adding a little at the time in some cases until you get the right amount of braking force needed.
4. Going Over a Used Jet or Aircraft Seasonal Off-Season Checks
Think about buying from a top shelf owner who has built several aircraft, or had it built by a professional builder. In all cases, REPLACE the batteries for the receiver AND ECU. It doesn’t matter what you paid, batteries are cheaper than airplanes!
After you REPLACE the batteries, start looking over each of the components and systems on the aircraft. Check servo screws, linkages, hold down straps, and look for any visible signs of fuel leaks.
The great thing about jets is they have very little vibration. It still pays to look these things over on a regular basis though. Five minutes looking will keep your investment performing and looking its best!
5. Priming a Turbine.
The process is similar for all turbines, though each may have different ways to interact with the ECU. Use a small plastic jar and run both fuel lines into it to prevent spills. Drill two small holes in the lid and run the lines through them. Pump fuel up and out of each of the lines into the jar to flush the fuel system and prime the line. Do it for both lines. Lay a rag down under the connections to prevent spilling while disconnecting and re-connecting fuel lines. Make sure any debris that could possibly be in the line gets flushed out and does not enter the over flow tank.
01-14-2013, 06:46 AM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger
Landings article from JPO Knowledge Bank: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_bank/landings.pdf
Landings article from JPO Knowledge Bank: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_bank/landings.pdf
Adjustments in throttle may also be necessary to compensate for wind. For instance, if a 10-mph crosswind is blowing at you across the runway
the jet will lose relative airspeed when turning downwind to base and bit more power will be required to avoid a stall. When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative airspeed will actually increase and the jet may level off or even climb a bit. Compensate with a throttle adjustment.
01-14-2013, 08:40 AM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
ORIGINAL: HarryC
Though it's a pity the JPO sees fit to publish this myth, copied from that article
Adjustments in throttle may also be necessary to compensate for wind. For instance, if a 10-mph crosswind is blowing at you across the runway
the jet will lose relative airspeed when turning downwind to base and bit more power will be required to avoid a stall. When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative airspeed will actually increase and the jet may level off or even climb a bit. Compensate with a throttle adjustment.
ORIGINAL: FlyinTiger
Landings article from JPO Knowledge Bank: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_bank/landings.pdf
Landings article from JPO Knowledge Bank: http://www.jetpilots.org/knowledge_bank/landings.pdf
Adjustments in throttle may also be necessary to compensate for wind. For instance, if a 10-mph crosswind is blowing at you across the runway
the jet will lose relative airspeed when turning downwind to base and bit more power will be required to avoid a stall. When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative airspeed will actually increase and the jet may level off or even climb a bit. Compensate with a throttle adjustment.
HarryC:
If there is a correction to be made I'm sure JPO would consider revising the article. The best course of action is probably to take details like this out of an article like this, since landing "jets" is the focus and parts of the article attempt to deal with all aircraft in the pattern. I suppose the assumption for RC turbine pilots is that they have experience already and should have a foundation of some kind already...they are not typically brand new pilots with no experience.
I suppose it doesn't go without saying...all of this information needs to be filtered...take and apply what works for you, with anything that might be incorrect or not apply "filtered" out.
Feedback is great! It will only help all pilots striving to get better and more proficient sort out the techniques and procedures that work well.
01-15-2013, 05:37 AM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
Albert, Jeremy and All,
Great input here although some may feel thatthe requirements are much too detailed.
However, one requirement is necessary for any applicant to the AMA Turbine Waiver process. This is "All turbine waiver applicants should have accomplished at least 50 flights on a high performance model. Fixed wing models should be capable of sustained speeds of 100 mph or higher." Ref: Safety Regulations of Model Aircraft powered by Gas Turbines. Some turbine waivered CD's may ask for a log book as a record of the 50 high performance flights before administering the turbine qualification test.
Also, few of the models mentioned for training are actually capable of 100 mph sustained flight.While both the Habu I and II are good practise models they are only good for 80-85 mph. The Habu 32 exceeds 100 mph but at a higher cost level. I recommend the many prop jets that are available and easily meet the 100 mph requirement, such as the Patriot, F-20 Tigershark and Jackal- all readily available and some with a retract option.Some warbirds are also applicable to meet this requirement and provide good experience with a high wing loading, flapsand retracts if fitted.
I'd like some wording to include these models and the 100 mph speed requirement in final versions.
Art ARRO, AMA Turbine Waivered CD
Great input here although some may feel thatthe requirements are much too detailed.
However, one requirement is necessary for any applicant to the AMA Turbine Waiver process. This is "All turbine waiver applicants should have accomplished at least 50 flights on a high performance model. Fixed wing models should be capable of sustained speeds of 100 mph or higher." Ref: Safety Regulations of Model Aircraft powered by Gas Turbines. Some turbine waivered CD's may ask for a log book as a record of the 50 high performance flights before administering the turbine qualification test.
Also, few of the models mentioned for training are actually capable of 100 mph sustained flight.While both the Habu I and II are good practise models they are only good for 80-85 mph. The Habu 32 exceeds 100 mph but at a higher cost level. I recommend the many prop jets that are available and easily meet the 100 mph requirement, such as the Patriot, F-20 Tigershark and Jackal- all readily available and some with a retract option.Some warbirds are also applicable to meet this requirement and provide good experience with a high wing loading, flapsand retracts if fitted.
I'd like some wording to include these models and the 100 mph speed requirement in final versions.
Art ARRO, AMA Turbine Waivered CD
01-15-2013, 06:38 AM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
Harry C,
The technique described in the JPO Knowledge Bank should have stated "relative ground speed" rather than " relative airspeed" when landing a jet model in the wind. Thanks for pointing this out and corrections will be made to the article. Good catch.
Art ARRO
The technique described in the JPO Knowledge Bank should have stated "relative ground speed" rather than " relative airspeed" when landing a jet model in the wind. Thanks for pointing this out and corrections will be made to the article. Good catch.
Art ARRO
01-15-2013, 07:59 AM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
ORIGINAL: Art ARRO
Harry C,
The technique described in the JPO Knowledge Bank should have stated ''relative ground speed'' rather than '' relative airspeed'' when landing a jet model in the wind. Thanks for pointing this out and corrections will be made to the article. Good catch.
Art ARRO
Harry C,
The technique described in the JPO Knowledge Bank should have stated ''relative ground speed'' rather than '' relative airspeed'' when landing a jet model in the wind. Thanks for pointing this out and corrections will be made to the article. Good catch.
Art ARRO
That will just get you into a bigger mess! Let’s do that straight substitution and see how it reads.
the jet will lose relative ground speed when turning downwind ……
When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative ground speed will actually increase
Well clearly that’s wrong, a plane gains, not loses ground speed when downwind, and vice versa when turning into wind.
Ok, let’s keep that substitution and correct the groundspeed
For instance, if a 10-mph crosswind is blowing at you across the runway the jet will gain relative ground speed when turning downwind to base and bit more power will be required to avoid a stall. When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative ground speed will actually decrease and the jet may level off or even climb a bit. Compensate with a throttle adjustment.
Again, its complete nonsense. The article now says that the plane gains groundspeed when down wind, so it may stall and you should increase throttle?!! It loses groundspeed when into wind so it climbs and you should reduce throttle?!!!!!
Sorry Art but there is no escaping the fact that whoever wrote the article really did mean exactly what he wrote but doesn’t understand the physics of flying in a wind. The only safe thing to do is to remove that paragraph entirely. Wind has no effect on airspeed in a turn, and changes in groundspeed have no effect on handling.
As can be seen from many posts above, many people want to copy such articles into their club newsletters. So it is important not to publish articles which contain basic errors of physics and recommend incorrect piloting!
01-15-2013, 01:27 PM
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RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
Harry C,
Your 2nd modified paragraph is correct with respect to the model gaining ground speed while flying downwind and loosing ground speed while flying into the wind. A crosswind situation with the wind directly in the pilot's facemay require additional throttle or a reduction in AOA while turning to final on the crosswind leg. This is all from the perspective of the obsever/pilot.
The model airspeed remains equal with a constant throttle and AOA setting independent of the wind speed and direction.The speed appears to changefrom the pilot's position. The original text was written by a experienced full scale and model jet pilot. Some wording/meaning may have gotten twisted during multiple edits for inclusion to the JPOKnowledge Bank. Do we agree or not??
Art ARRO
.
Your 2nd modified paragraph is correct with respect to the model gaining ground speed while flying downwind and loosing ground speed while flying into the wind. A crosswind situation with the wind directly in the pilot's facemay require additional throttle or a reduction in AOA while turning to final on the crosswind leg. This is all from the perspective of the obsever/pilot.
The model airspeed remains equal with a constant throttle and AOA setting independent of the wind speed and direction.The speed appears to changefrom the pilot's position. The original text was written by a experienced full scale and model jet pilot. Some wording/meaning may have gotten twisted during multiple edits for inclusion to the JPOKnowledge Bank. Do we agree or not??
Art ARRO
.
01-15-2013, 02:04 PM
#25
RE: A beginners guide to jets, revised
ORIGINAL: HarryC
Hi Art,
That will just get you into a bigger mess! Let’s do that straight substitution and see how it reads.
the jet will lose relative ground speed when turning downwind ……
When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative ground speed will actually increase
Well clearly that’s wrong, a plane gains, not loses ground speed when downwind, and vice versa when turning into wind.
Ok, let’s keep that substitution and correct the groundspeed
For instance, if a 10-mph crosswind is blowing at you across the runway the jet will gain relative ground speed when turning downwind to base and bit more power will be required to avoid a stall. When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative ground speed will actually decrease and the jet may level off or even climb a bit. Compensate with a throttle adjustment.
Again, its complete nonsense. The article now says that the plane gains groundspeed when down wind, so it may stall and you should increase throttle?!! It loses groundspeed when into wind so it climbs and you should reduce throttle?!!!!!
Sorry Art but there is no escaping the fact that whoever wrote the article really did mean exactly what he wrote but doesn’t understand the physics of flying in a wind. The only safe thing to do is to remove that paragraph entirely. Wind has no effect on airspeed in a turn, and changes in groundspeed have no effect on handling.
As can be seen from many posts above, many people want to copy such articles into their club newsletters. So it is important not to publish articles which contain basic errors of physics and recommend incorrect piloting!
ORIGINAL: Art ARRO
Harry C,
The technique described in the JPO Knowledge Bank should have stated ''relative ground speed'' rather than '' relative airspeed'' when landing a jet model in the wind. Thanks for pointing this out and corrections will be made to the article. Good catch.
Art ARRO
Harry C,
The technique described in the JPO Knowledge Bank should have stated ''relative ground speed'' rather than '' relative airspeed'' when landing a jet model in the wind. Thanks for pointing this out and corrections will be made to the article. Good catch.
Art ARRO
That will just get you into a bigger mess! Let’s do that straight substitution and see how it reads.
the jet will lose relative ground speed when turning downwind ……
When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative ground speed will actually increase
Well clearly that’s wrong, a plane gains, not loses ground speed when downwind, and vice versa when turning into wind.
Ok, let’s keep that substitution and correct the groundspeed
For instance, if a 10-mph crosswind is blowing at you across the runway the jet will gain relative ground speed when turning downwind to base and bit more power will be required to avoid a stall. When turning base to final into a strong headwind, relative ground speed will actually decrease and the jet may level off or even climb a bit. Compensate with a throttle adjustment.
Again, its complete nonsense. The article now says that the plane gains groundspeed when down wind, so it may stall and you should increase throttle?!! It loses groundspeed when into wind so it climbs and you should reduce throttle?!!!!!
Sorry Art but there is no escaping the fact that whoever wrote the article really did mean exactly what he wrote but doesn’t understand the physics of flying in a wind. The only safe thing to do is to remove that paragraph entirely. Wind has no effect on airspeed in a turn, and changes in groundspeed have no effect on handling.
As can be seen from many posts above, many people want to copy such articles into their club newsletters. So it is important not to publish articles which contain basic errors of physics and recommend incorrect piloting!
We've been down this road before,with the "downwind turn myth" thread. You saying it's all nonsense,is nonsense. Your statement "Wind has no effect on airspeed in a turn, and changes in groundspeed have no effect on handling",while tehnically true,is overly simplistic,and misleading.
The intent is to make the newbie aware that visually perceived speed will change significantly,at a constant airspeed,when changing course in a strong wind.That is a huge point. If he flies the airplane at a comfortable buffer above stall speed into a 20 kt headwind,then turns downwind,the groundspeed,and more importantly perceived speed, will be 40 kts faster,if he doesn't change pitch/power. An inexperienced pilot may incorrectly perceive that the airspeed is increasing,and make the improper input of decreasing power/increasing pitch,leading to a stall,and departure from controlled flight.I have seen it happen more than once.
You,and others have argued the semantics of this,yet it continues to be a problem for newer pilots.It may not be explained exactly correctly on the JPO sight,but at least the attempt is being made to enlighten newbies that there are extra considerations when operating in stronger winds.I applaud that effort.
Erik