mick15

That was very well put Bob, I concur 100%. Reminds me of when I bought my Evo12' the manual was totally useless until I figured out how to use the radio then it made perfect sense.

m

LA jetguy

Have you noticed none of the Apple products come with any manual or documentation.... But over time and consistence use everyone these days is an expert in iOS and OS X

Some pleasure of the hobby comes from patience and discovery and realizing the "Woo effect" of Jeti programming... There are many experts on this forum and others to answer any "how to" and over time everyone will be an expert in Jeti programming over consistence use...

The learning curve is exponential.... Hard initially but when you get a grasp of it... It's very logical and easy... Esprit tutorial videos are excellent ... They have put a lot of time into making those..No other distributor does that.. Ask your questions here and soon you will all be experts.... I still remember when Wayne asked his first question on a forum and now he is truly a Jeti expert.... Thanks Wayne...

Enjoy your Jeti system... Best system on current market......

David

Pepperpete

David I think you may have used a poor example. Apple products are designed to be used by everyone for everyone. Even the Iphone 1 was simple to use. They don't need videos because its all extremely intuitive. If anyone was close to Apple it would be Spektrum. The only people who need to be overly smart are the Apple engineers. The users can be average Joes like myself. I realize this radio isn't for the average joe but the premise holds true.

On the flip side, Jeti almost treats us as engineers first and customers second. That's all well and good but frustrating sometimes. Sure there are videos but they only show half the programming if not less than that. Its the one area where you guys are behind the times and expect your customers to pick up the slack. Luckily this forum does exactly that.

Im comfortable with the system now but its taken serious work and dedication. I know the Jeti can do way more than something like a DX-18 but in terms of useability, documentation, and ease...a bit lacking for sure. Being a novice with this radio is a downright painful experience. Like most things it does get better with time and I do love the radio.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

If I post my data from my log file of my crash on this forum, could someone input it into their radio to decipher what occured with my crash? James at Esprit said he could do it, but their radio is tied up or something and have not heard back from him in a while. I would like to try to figure out what caused my crash.

Blancr

David,
Your response is disappointing for two reasons - it's irrational and it denies the existence of a real issue. Irrational because you argue for 'trial and error'. Try flying a full size aircraft with sole reference to instruments. I can (and have) read up on weather, instrument flying, navigation, communication. But it's not until I try to pull all of that together that the true challenges and risks become apparent. Denying a problem doesn't make it go away. The Jeti videos are helpful - they are not excellent. Jeti put them together in response to this problem. All I'm suggesting is that Jeti go one step further and create something truly useful. If you compare the cost of creating an end to end training aid with the cost of development of the excellent Jeti product line the cost has to be tiny but the benefit very great to both Jeti and its users.

We all have thousands of dollars invested in our planes. We buy the best equipment we can afford because we want to protect that investment - we want (need) to reduce the risk of failure. That's why when I buy equipment I buy it based upon a combination of Capability and Usability because that equals risk reduction. There are two things about this for me. Capability is irrelevant if I can't get at it. The more difficult it is to use the more likely I'm going to make a mistake. So - am I reducing or increasing my risks?


Jeti has travelled so far and produced highly capable equipment but the learning curve is difficult and risky for would be new users. If the solution to this were difficult or expensive then I would grit my teeth and just get on with. When the solution is so simple and so cheap - I'm just left shaking my head in disbelief.

Bob

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

Sure,

If you can get the log file to me, I'll be happy to open it up and take a look.

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

Sun fli was the name of my plane. Here is the log file.

# Sun fli 5
000000000;4291418409;0;Tx;
000000000;4272322023;0;Rx;
000000000;4272322023;1;U Rx;V
000000000;4272322023;2;A1;
000000000;4272322023;3;A2;
000000000;4272322023;4;Q;%
000449047;4272322023;1;1;2;663;2;1;0;9;3;1;0;9;4;1 ;0;100
000449567;4272322023;1;1;2;663;2;1;0;9;3;1;0;9;4;1 ;0;100

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

While I've only watched a couple of the Esprit videos, I did find them helpful. I suspect whether you find them to be excellent or not would largely be based on how well they addressed what you are trying to learn about the radio. With the number of different features to cover and the highly varied experience level of the audience, it certainly seems to be a challenge to put together a video that is easy to understand and covers all the information accurately. Personally, I'm not a fan of videos for learning this type of information as it's difficult to see the screen shots and I often want to skip over the information I already understand. It can be very difficult to find the correct pace where the majority can keep up and yet the more experienced guys don't get totally bored.

Perhaps if you could offer a bit more information about exactly what you would like to see, as a group, some of us could put something together. Something like a step by step example for setting up a specific aircraft type perhaps?

As David mentioned, there are a number of us that are happy to help. David and a number of others were always willing to take the time to answer my questions when I first got my DS16 so I figure the best way I can return the favor is to help others whenever possible.

Blancr

Hi Wayne,
Well that's a very kind offer and thank you for making it. I accept your points about the problems with videos. I have used them in my own business and some people like them and others hate them. I'm not sure there's a simpler way to communicate this stuff though.

The Jeti videos are helpful because they explain what a function does. However, they don't show how to use the function within the real world context of setting up a complex plane. If we take a live issue for me today. I'm setting up my first jet. This means I have to figure out how to start and stop the engine. Turns out it's very simple - once you've done it successfully the first time! What none of the manuals - Jeti, JB 220, Projet tell you is that if you want the engine to stop better make sure that throttle digital trim is set to Thro Low. The Jeti manual and video explain that these specific functions exist. Digital trims in the manual and on the video are simple and intuitive. But there is nothing intuitive for the newcomer that would lead him/her to know or infer that the digital trim for throttle MUST be set to Thro Low if the engine is to stop when properly commanded.

So my need is all about context - and, in my view, the best way to get at most of the things that trip me up and cause me to blunder about for hours at a time, is simply to work through a typical set up. So - I would pick a generic aeroplane type that is complex. It would need dual path, flaps, retracts, servo matching, mixes, logical switches and telemetry and a bunch of other issues. Then I would simply describe a logical sequence for setting it up. So - create a basic model. This is generally straight forward. For those that needed it, I would refer them to the Jeti Video. However, I would major on those things that are not obvious that could catch me out later on if I don't set them up correctly at this stage. I can't think of an example at this point. My point is to major on the things that are NOT obvious and use the current Jeti videos as reference material to gain a basic understanding of the function.

A good example would be flaps. the emphasis here would be on being able to set each flap independently - took me ages to figure that out. So a piece that shows the correct way to set up flaps would be helpful. Then go on to mix with elevator. In itself this is not hard but if you want to have the elevator trim with the flap well there are very specific setting that must be right for that to happen. They are not spelled out in the manual because the manual has no sense of 'context'. Nose wheel steering mixed to rudder and brakes would be interesting particularly if some of the sensors are used.

There is nothing written down anywhere that takes a particular context and says "this is what you need to achieve this effect and these are the generic settings". If I had something like that I could at least infer from it to get to my specific requirements.

Not sure if I'm helping much here Wayne because I'm not an expert on this stuff - yet. But I'm looking to achieve for myself a general thought process that steps me through the total set up. You experts know what those steps are, how Jeti helps and how to get the best from the equipment. That's all I need

Thanks for at least taking an interest!

Bob

Jeti USA

You said that you will ship radio back to us, we still did not get it.

Zb/Jeti USA

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I was waiting to hear back from James at Esprit. I am not sure it is worth sending in yet or not, but I will if need be. James said I could send it to them, but I am not sure where it needs to go to be honest.

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

Bob,

I think I understand better what you're looking for now. Basically, a thorough discussion of a complex setup, first discussing some of the issues that are faced in setting up a such a model and then more specifically, how to solve those issues using a Jeti DS16. Over on RC Groups, there is a Jeti USA forum that has a number of these types of discussions. They tend to generally be broken down into smaller tasks such as strategies for setting up flaps, etc. Perhaps it would be worth whie to create a high level "Jet setup" thread and have a single post dedicated to each step in the process. Some of these steps such as flap to elevator compensation, could simply be a link to another thread that already covers this. It could also refer to some of the videos that cover some of these things, while trying to explain why they are worth doing in the first place. Doing something like this would allow a number of people to contribute and others to ask questions about issues that the original poster never realized may be confusing for others. Does that sound like something that would be useful ?

ddennison

My Feedback: (15)

A little off topic, but...

I am finally setting up my F16 with two LiIon batteries and CBox200. Dual path and two R3s.

I wanted to double check that for a Jetcat turbine, that if I have the throttle failsafe set in and only in the CBox (out-off?) that I will be doing this properly?

Also - I found that I had to turn the ailerons off and bump the elev throw up to 100 for my elevators to work only as elevators with dual elevator servos - new to me.

Thanks for any advice or help,

Dave

ddennison

My Feedback: (15)

One more thing, sorry of the answer is somewhere already in this thread...

How do I set the alarm for loss of signal strength with an voice alarm or morse alarm? I didn't see a signal strength option on my alarm list?

Thanks
Dave

Blancr

Wayne
That would be really helpful and I think a very practical way to approach this. We don't want to reinvent good existing material, rather we want to pull it into a context where it can properly contribute to what we are all trying to achieve. In a different context the Marc Scully Virtual Build thread for the Skygate Hawk has become the definitive reference point for those of us building the Hawk. So a good, strong base of material around which other experts were able to either expand upon or offer alternative solutions to tricky problems.

The difference is that when building you can physically see what needs to be done and it's just a matter of playing around with different approaches to find the one that works the best. With Jeti there are things that are simply unknowable unless you have bumped into the problem and, after a great deal of asking/playing around, finally come up with a solution. It's this last piece that I want us to shorten and de risk.

Thanks for your thoughts Wayne - much appreciated.
Bob

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

Dave,

A fail-safe setting of OFF would simply turn the throttle channel off (no servo pulse) should the receiver go into fail-safe, which I believe will cause the turbine to shut down but not cause the ECU to log that failure properly. A review of the ECU status following such an event would most likely show a loss of power or normal shutdown as a shut down reason rather than loss of signal. The ECU typically wants a certain range of servo pulse widths which it learns during Teach R/C, for low throttle / low trim to full throttle, full trim. If we assume a range of pulse widths of 1100us - 1900us for these ranges, the ECU is happy as long as it sees a servo pulse width anywhere in the range. If it sees a servo pulse width outside this range for more than a couple of seconds, it assumes a loss of signal and the ECU will go into it's loss of signal fail-safe and shut down the turbine. When done this way, it will also show up as the cause of shut down when looking at the ECU with the ground support unit. To get this, I set a normal range of 1100us - 1900us for low throttle / low trim - full throttle / full trim which I get by setting my servo Min / Max travels to +/- 80%, I then adjust my fail safe value to provide something like 900us. If you look in the DS16s servo monitor and you can get it to display the pulse width being displayed and I use that to determine a value the output setting, I then enter Device Explorer, select the CB200, select fail-safe for the throttle channel instead of OFF and set the value (-125% ?) that will cause it to give a 900us pulse when the CB200 goes into fail safe. Also be certain the fail safe is DISABLED in both R3s as fail-safe must only be set in the CB200. Then to double check everything I connect my servo monitor (I believe Jetibox can do this) to the throttle channel and verify 1100us for low trim low throttle, 1900us for full trim full throttle and then power off the DS16 and verify that the throttle channel goes to 900us. I then do Teach RC to the ECU. This has worked perfectly on my 2 JetCats and also both my Kingtech turbines.

Sorry for the long winded reply as I'm sure you already knew most of this.

Wayne

JSF-TC

My Feedback: (2)

Dave,

Low and Lost signal warnings can be set via the System/ System Sound menu. The signal strength for the low signal warning can also be set here. I have set a custom voice for "Warning - Low Signal" and "Warning - Lost Signal" to these.

Paul

JSF-TC

My Feedback: (2)

Wayne,

I leave my throttle servo travel set to -100/ +100, and then set the Throttle Cut Switch (Switch Se) to go to -120% via the Advances Properties/ Other Model Options menu. I have a locking switch at Se for the Throttle Cut switch.

I also disable the throttle trim buttons (Fine Tuning/ Digital Trims) so that I can never inadvertently input a trim offset.


Then teach the FADEC per following;

Throttle Cut Switch Off/ Stick Anywhere - Engine Off
Throttle Cut Switch On/ Stick Low - Idle
Throttle Cut Switch On/ Stick High - Full Power


Paul

ddennison

My Feedback: (15)

Thanks guys. Will keep plugging away at it.
Dave

wfield0455

My Feedback: (7)

Paul,

As long as you're aware of the servo pulse values that you are using and ensure that your fail-safe value is outside that range everything will work perfectly fine. Since you have throttle cut set to -120% I assume you set your throttle channel to fail-safe, with a more negative value such as -150% to be sure your fail safe is outside the normal range.

To be honest setting max / min travel to +/- 80% is just a habit I've gotten into from switching so many airplanes over from Spektrum which had end point values of +/- 100% and setting the max / mix travels to +/- 80% maintained the same control surface travels I had with Spektrum. There really is no benefit to doing that for a new setup or on the throttle channel for a Jet so I'll probably leave the throttle Max/Min travel at +/- 100% on the next Jet I setup too.

Since I don't have a locking switch installed anywhere on my transmitter, I wasn't comfortable using throttle cut for shutdown as I was afraid of accidentally bumping the switch and killing the turbine in flight. As a result, I've adjusted the throttle trim to 100% so if I press the throttle up trim button twice I get full up trim for idle and then press the down trim button twice for shutdown. If I ever get around to installing a locking switch on myDS16, I'll probably start using the throttle cut function too.

There are many ways to set this up and depending on what you have for switches, etc, one may suit you better than another..

HarryC

My Feedback: (1)

Hmm, I must have missed seeing the update come out, perhaps you can provide a link to the download?

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I have decided to sell my radio and all of the accessories I purchased for it. If anyone is interested in a DS 14 let me know.

I guess this radio is too complicated for me to figure out. The customer support is seriously lacking. In over 30 years of flying RC I have never taken a radio out and on the first flight lost control of it. I do not have time to try to become some sort of radio genius to chase down all of these issues. I am sure my BIN files have been written improperly to upgrade my TX as well.

I hope as Jeti had posted earlier it will be no problem getting my money back from this amazing system. Meanwhile, I recommend you guys sort some things out with the DS 14 as it is not very plug and play.

Bobneal1

My Feedback: (21)

Does anyone know how to reset the "tank" value in the telemetry display when using a CB electronics link for Jetcat with a CB 200 and 2 rsat 3 (s) ? I have done a reset in the CB 200, I have hit the "clear" button at the bottom of the screen , it clears all telemetry values except the "tank" value. I am out of ideas. Any help would be most appreciated.

LA jetguy

Bobneal1...Are you looking for a rest after the system has been turned on and running? And you want to rest the ml used back down to zero?... If that is the question... You can not reset after the system is on. It only rest on a power cycle..

In certain cases when we used the wing tank and not actually the on board tank the reported ml used can be incorrect and that can not be reseted...

if you you question is to reset the capacity of the tank... That's through the limits menu of the ECU and not the JJXC or CB200

Hope that answered your question...

David

JohnMac

Hi Guys,
I wonder if someone can point my in the right direction on a problem I have. I have two jets running single R14 Rx's and my intention is ultomately to replace these with CB200 = 2x Rsat2. However that will be a winter recon job on both models. Whilst I have had not a single glitch with either jet with a single Rx, I thought that I would add a clone RX as I have teh Rsat2's sitting on the shelf. This had always been my intention, I just never got around to it. Now a couple of freinds told me that this was areal ***** to do and I thought that they were exagerating, but they are right. I have followed Jeti's instructions step by step and I cannot get it to work. The only way that you know a Rsat is working is to unplug it. Then you should get an "S" alarm "low Signal". But I do not get this, so there is no way of knowing if the Rsats are actually working or not.Clearly I am missing something. Any ideas anyone?
John