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Another Skymaster Viper

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Old 08-02-2010, 08:15 AM
  #1451
nicocarlucci
 
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

hi Alessandro

while you're enjoying the holidays sardinia, I'm in the office thinking, instead of spending 4000 euro for the viper was better than I even went on vacation ....

Jhon Skymaster very kindly asked me to send him of the rudder but I want to show everyone what's inside because no one will ever see ....

In your opinion is worth spending all this money for such a model?

I do not think a good building.
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Old 08-02-2010, 08:28 AM
  #1452
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

There looks to be a much better, even spread of glue in there, than on a PST reaction wing i saw lately. Even the wood is the corect size and meets where it's meant to. What size servo horn was on the rudder?
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Old 08-02-2010, 09:52 AM
  #1453
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hi Duncan

"...There looks to be a much better, even spread of glue in there..:"

I believe you probably have seen a much more insufficient insertion, but to say " much better" is from my point of view a very nice understatement
It doesn't looks like a quality product, more than the first handicraft work of a child. A stressed structure like this rudder should have a real fitted balsa block inside and not a stapled waste of balsa fitted with glue. I mean 10 gram of Balsa in the back can be easily compensated with the position of the batteries in the nose, but would solve a problem which , afaik, exist since from the beginning. I'm wondering why SM doesn't solve this problem.
In a lot of threaths in different forums, even here in switzerland and germany, you can read the same:
Check and reinforce the hinge positions of rudder, elevator, ailerons and flaps.

I'm now afraid about the condition of my new Viper and will take an fibrescope to check the rudder, elevators, ailerons and the wings from the innerside to be sure everything is mounted correct and no hidden weak points are there.
There is too much money in the air and it is too dangerous.

Yesterday we had a deadly incident at a RC Airshow. A visitor was hidden on the head, near at the end of the flight, by an uncontrolled AT-6 (3m wingspan and a weight of 22 kg) in Switzerland. The investigations are running what happend definiteley.
But every RC-Pilot here is now very sensitive.

Kind regards
Rainer
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:03 AM
  #1454
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: nicocarlucci

hi Alessandro

while you're enjoying the holidays sardinia, I'm in the office thinking, instead of spending 4000 euro for the viper was better than I even went on vacation ....[img][/img]

Jhon Skymaster very kindly asked me to send him of the rudder but I want to show everyone what's inside because no one will ever see ....

In your opinion is worth spending all this money for such a model?

I do not think a good building.[img][/img]
Do not be so pessimistic, I wait you here in Sardinia where there is a really beautiful runway (perhaps too much wind...[sm=bananahead.gif]). The Viper worth every euro spent, I think you're just unlucky to take the wrong one....

I don't know what to do with my fin, now I'm flying very gentle because I still frightened by the giant the but in future?
Ali, sorry to bother you again but you are our reference pilot and you surely do a good stress test on the airplanes, your fin is generally extractable?

Ciao
Alessandro
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:07 AM
  #1455
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hi Rainer

Sorry i think we have our wires crossed. I wasn't looking the the trailing edge of the rudder where the hinges mount, but all the rest of the webbing going for bottom to the top of the rudder post. I can see what you mean by the scrap balsa glued to the trailing edge of the rudder post now.

The aileron, elevator and flap hinges are live kevlar hinges on a viper, are you talking about models in general, when you say check and reinforce the hinge positions?

I'm very sorry to hear about the accident during your show yesterday, i'm not surprised that everyone is a little sensitive at the minute, things like this effect everyone involved in the hobby to some extent.

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Old 08-02-2010, 10:11 AM
  #1456
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Alessandro,

What do you mean by extractable? Mine is probably the only large Viper Ali flies at the minute ,as he has been playing with the 2m version. I remove the fin after every session for transport and as yet haven't found any play in the carbon rod.

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Old 08-02-2010, 10:28 AM
  #1457
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Duncan

Alessandro,

What do you mean by extractable? Mine is probably the only large Viper Ali flies at the minute ,as he has been playing with the 2m version. I remove the fin after every session for transport and as yet haven't found any play in the carbon rod.

Duncan
Extractable... like removable... like yours (it's my english...) Did you made, like me, the mod explained in these thread? With the bolt in the front aluminum rod and then tightening the back carbon rod through a hole in the fuz?

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Old 08-02-2010, 10:32 AM
  #1458
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

yep, i did exactly that. There should be some pics of mine on here. i'll have a look and see if there are still on my pc

Duncan


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Old 08-02-2010, 10:36 AM
  #1459
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hello Rainer
It pains me to hear such a bad news ...
But my concern was just that my viper broke while I trained on Friday for a big event on Sunday, if I happen during the event could kill someone with 20 kg of air ...
in addition to having lost a lot of money, the worst could happen.
Regards Nico
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:40 AM
  #1460
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Ciao Ale
stà cominciando ad essere tosta farsi capire da loro,il nostro è cispadanenglish
Saluti Nico
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:47 AM
  #1461
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: Duncan

yep, i did exactly that. There should be some pics of mine on here. i'll have a look and see if there are still on my pc

Duncan


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Duncan, you are great.
Thanks, is exactly like in mine (perhaps I copied you! ) And you tight the back carbon rod through a hole you have done in the fuz, right? Have you modified the internal aluminum ring?
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:54 AM
  #1462
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

No worries lol

Yes I tighten the clamp through a hole in the side of the fuz, under the stab. I didn't have to modify the clamp, i took it out to inspect and all was well, so it went back in as supplied. It feels solid to me and it's withstood several of Ali's fast knifedge circuits

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Old 08-02-2010, 10:55 AM
  #1463
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Quote:
ORIGINAL: nicocarlucci

Ciao Ale
stĂ* cominciando ad essere tosta farsi capire da loro,il nostro è cispadanenglish
Saluti Nico[img][/img]
Ciao Nico,
che fatica [&:] ... Però ne vale la pena, sto anche migliorando il mio inglese! A breve voglio postare le modifiche fatte per mettere il fumogeno.

Sorry, only a few words in italian for relaxing

Ciao
Ale
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Old 08-02-2010, 10:58 AM
  #1464
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

It's a shame i can't improve my Italian at the same time as you guys improve you english lol.

Us Brits are notoriously bad at learning languages. Thinking about it, there are a few Brits on here that struggle with English !!!
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Old 08-02-2010, 12:21 PM
  #1465
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Hi Duncan

"..are you talking about models in general,..:"

No, only about Viper from SM. I spoke in the past with two pilots here in Switzerland who have flewn, or fly, the Viper from SM.
And everybody recommended me to check and reinforce in the minimum the rudder for hinges mounting, even to build the servo into the rudder instead of recommended installation in the fuselage.

Will see . Next week i hope to get the rest of ordered material and then i will start to build up my Viper.


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Old 08-02-2010, 12:54 PM
  #1466
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

No worries, it was the aileron, flap and elevator hinge comment that threw me. Mine and Ali's Vipers had the servo mounted in the rudder and the elevator servos in the stabs. I would always prefer to undo a servo connection than undo a linkage everytime I wanted to take a model apart.

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Old 08-03-2010, 01:28 AM
  #1467
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper


Quote:
ORIGINAL: Duncan

It's a shame i can't improve my Italian at the same time as you guys improve you english lol.

Us Brits are notoriously bad at learning languages. Thinking about it, there are a few Brits on here that struggle with English !!!
Thanks Duncan,
perhaps is because you don't need to learn other language, english is the most important language in the world.... well.... recently perhaps after chinese...
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Old 08-03-2010, 01:53 AM
  #1468
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper


Quote:
ORIGINAL: RamsesCH

.........And everybody recommended me to check and reinforce in the minimum the rudder for hinges mounting, even to build the servo into the rudder instead of recommended installation in the fuselage............

You are right. Reinforce the rudder, throw away the 3 SM hinges, take the robart model (!!!) and use 5 instead of 3. I agree with Duncan about servo installation also because the fin and stabs structure became much more solid. You can find a lot of pictures about this in this thread.
Ciao
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:19 AM
  #1469
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

The pictures are miles back in the thread, so here are some of them again, just to make life easier The rudder pics are mine and the stabs were Ali's.

I also exchanged the hinges with Robart units and supported the part of the hinge that goes into the fin with brass tube. I didn't use 5 hinges, but 3 as per the original design, my thinking was that, this would be where the hard points would of been put in at the factory and 3 hinges into hard points would be better than 5 just into soft balsa.

Duncan
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:48 AM
  #1470
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

This supposed to be an ARF kit. Why have Skymaster not made provision for rudder & stab servos to fit straight in? The rest of the model is ARF. It does not make sense. Perhaps Anton can comment. I know he is on this thread now.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:51 AM
  #1471
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

Yea because 5 minutes work grinding is far too taxing for the average jet pilot !! lol

They give you the option of where to put them. All ARF jets need a bit of work to go together how you want them, complaining about something as small as that is petty.

The only taxing bit of the build is getting the rudder hinges aligned correctly, the rest is basic modelling, that you learn when balsa bashing as a kid.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:55 AM
  #1472
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

I am not complaining exactly, but on an expensive kit, normally this work would be done, especially when most of the jets problems seem to be about the tail end. Peoples decisions about guessing where to put servos, may not be the best idea. I did my first one & it is a lot more than five minutes.
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Old 08-03-2010, 02:58 AM
  #1473
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

I think SM should pay you for all this e-learning lessons
You are right again Duncan (it's becoming boring ah ah ah) I had to put two blocks of balsa inside the fin and two hard wood rod in the rudder. I think that now my two hinges are more solid than the three SM because, as you see from the pictures of Nicolò, the SM balsa blocks inside the fin are not so secure....[&:]

Ciao
A
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:07 AM
  #1474
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

I can see where you are coming from, but i wouldn't say most of the problems. There have been quite a few pilot/builders errors causing failures too and you can't expect the factory to take responsibility for someone old boy'ing it in.

As for building, you would expect anyone putting a jet together to have learnt through years of modelling the way they like to do things, so it's not guessing, but using their years of experience to judge how they think it should be. To be able to decide where a servo should be may need a basic understanding of forces a model goes through in flight, but if someone hasn't got a basic understanding of the principles of flight, then should they be flying a jet or indeed any model in the first place?


lol Alessandro, i'm still learning all the time mate, it never stops and i can get it wrong
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Old 08-03-2010, 03:17 AM
  #1475
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Default RE: Another Skymaster Viper

I forgot to say that I also put a long piece of balsa, 5 mm thick, glued on the fin behind the rudder because the rudder didn't go to touch the fin and the hinges remained out of the fin for almost 5 mm.
I think that nobody will understand what I said and I don't have pictures....

Alessandro
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