Ghost@amps1

Achtung experienced only Tankers!

Ok. I've finally decided upon a TORRO Panzer IV G 1/16 scale Pro Edition as my very first R/C vehicle, which I should be getting sometime in the spring or summer once I finally decide on all the necessary upgrades, parts and paints. It really came down to that wooden box crate and the riveting details after all is said and done.
MY QUESTIONS: Does this Tank, with it's new 2.4GHz stock electronics, come with an adequate, realistic barrel recoil and reloading sound? Also, does the engine sound realistic and 'grumpy'? When I order it, I can choose a different sound card than the one it comes with which probably has cannon firing and engine sounds already - are they loud and realistic enough or will I have to upgrade to a UBI, Elmond MBU or even a Benedini sound system?

Anubizz

I have same tank, I am happy with the recoil and sound ,not perfect but hey cannot complain, the only thing that I don't like is track recoil is to strong, and the control not as good as Tamiya control scheme, Heng Long 6.0 have the option to change track recoil strength and Tamiya or HL/Taigen/Torro control scheme,

If cause if you want you can always upgrade with aftermarket solution, but it gonna cost you.

Ghost@amps1

Hello Anubizz once again!

I might go with a TAIGEN Panzer IV G IR Pro Edition V3 2.4GHz (60 - 90% metal) because the FL, US location has better known service and would be less inexpensive for me in terms of the tank itself, parts, accessories, electronics and shipping (I live in CDA). But that depends on how easy I can use an Elrond MFU for it or not. DO YOU KNOW? (with a TAIGEN)?

I've watched a few vids of both Taigen and Torro tanks and know that I will need upgrades if I want decent realism. The stock gears in either tank will have to be changed to a slower set of gears as the standard issues both come with a jerky, fast, toy-like speed and don't have proportional throttle speed control. Nor do they seem to have proportional volume/sound either . . . basically just one running engine sound after initial startup and shutdown.
I think the track recoil can mostly be switched off for firing the cannon at least in the I/R versions though but maybe not in the BB shot??

Yes, lately I've also been checking both Elrond and IBU out and know that it's goinna cost me $$$ unfortunately to upgrade but feel it's worth it in the long run and will give me something creative to do with the parts, paint, etc. Plus it's a cool nice new hobby for me (I've been into military history for as long as I can remember) but it will take some time.

jarndice

I hsve a great interest in all types of PZ4 of all variants,
You appear to wanf to alter the internal electronics first, That would not be my first priority,
before I mess with the gearboxes and control board my first priority would be the accuracy of the PZ 4s silluette.
Tamiya have it right with their Ausf "J",
The Heng Long and Taigen/Torro PZ4 have a flat engine bay which should actually slope 5 Degrees down from the turret base to the exhaust drum,
Just carrying out that alteration makes a massive and positive change to the Tanks side view after that the gears and control board should indeed be looked at and do not forget the second rate suspension of the Heng Long/Taigen/Torro, If you can obtain a complete Tamiya Suspension system then that would be my choice,
In my opinion the biggest single change that I would make ts to fit Taigens latest Metal Turret which is superior to Heng Long/Torro or Tamiya's in overall accuracy,
The Taigen and Asiatam PZ4 Metal hulls leave a lot to be desired, The Tamiya mixture of Metal/ABS make for a nice combination which is very difficult to combine with Heng Longs/Taigens/ or Torros PZ4 Tank bodies.
There are lots of small dealers that sells products that will transform your Tank if you search the web.

Ghost@amps1

I can complete/upgrade to an all metal wheel, track and suspension, including slower 4 to1 mid/slow gears, bearings, flanges, etc. for a TAIGIEN P4 AufG/F IR tank which brand I am now seriously considering so that's not too bad. Up until your post, I'd never heard of ASIATAM tanks and I don't wish to purchase the inferior HengLong version - which leaves relatively known brands Taigen or Torro for me. In a city of over a million, with no tank clubs or mentions of any such things or items on Kijiji, one of these two brands are my best bet. No serious dealerships in CDA except for HengLong or Mato in ON - the nearest well stocked Taigen or Torro dealership/warehouse is in Germany (a much lesser stocked Taigen branch is in FL USA). They stock a standard metal version '42 Kharkov camo Pz IV Auf G which comes with metal lower hull, turret, sprocket and idler wheels, and wide metal winter tracks. The extra parts, accessories and upgrades that I want with it can be shipped in, for some extra $$$ but I have the time and inclination to learn the know how and retool it myself to my satisfaction. A 5 degree difference in motor slope and engine armour over it means very little to me - thanks fo your reply nonetheless.

It sounds like the Pz IV is a fav of yours. Which Brand with what extra Upgrades is the most favourite Pz IV AufG out of your entire collection?

.

H2Ohaze

Quick note, FWIW : Taigen PIV, Sherman 75 and 76, and I think also JS-2 (?) do not have adjustable idlers to take up track tension.

I've heard Mato is it? adjusters can be retro-fitted with machining. It seems to me that my (solid, 1/2 inch deep idlers) Sherman can easily have it's idler built up with electrical tape as a stopgap until it stretches a full link.

I've only seen pics of the Taigen PIV, but the idler looked like it would not be able to build up this way (not being solid but in two halves with track nubbins in the middle)...someone else correct me here if wrong.

Not saying it's a bad tank at all...just be aware of.

jarndice

www.rctank.de
Sell PZ4 track idler adjusters as an upgrade,
Their are two versions, One good and one not so good,
An easy fit to the Taigen and Heng Long Plastic Hulls but the Taigen Metal hull needs a lot of surgery with a Dremel.
Most people simply remove the front sprocket to take the track off but it becomes a problem if you start removing links and then you do need a track tension adjuster for the rear idlers.

jarndice

[QUOTE)

It sounds like the Pz IV is a fav of yours. Which Brand with what extra Upgrades is the most favourite Pz IV AufG out of your entire collection?

.[/QUOTE]
First Dealer's.-----
www.forgebeartanks.com
is a UK based site run by Dave and Julie, It is one of the best in the World and can be trusted, They sell worldwide including to the American and Canadian market,
www.rctank.de
is a German based site run by Dom who is as straight as a die,
Panzer 4 metal hulls are either good (Tamiya) or second rate (Taigen/Torro/ Asiatam)
History,
The Panzer 4 was the only German Tank in production from the start to the end of WW2 and was built in 9 (TANK) versions known as "Ausf" starting with Ausf "A" there was not an "I" and ending with Ausf "J",
There is some confusion in our hobby about the Ausf "F2",
The change from the Infantry support Ausf "F" to the long barrel upgrade Tank caused problems in the logisics chain of the German Army because the change caused a new Ausf designation to be issued (Ausf "F2") and this caused massive problems in the supply chain as clerks down the line who had probably never seen a Tank let alone a PZ4 were not adding the (2) and the wrong parts were being issued down an already overloaded system so after just 50 Ausf F2 were issued the designation was altered to Panzerkampfwagen Ausf "G" and the following 1500 Ausf "G" were pretty much identical to the F2 and many of us call the whole production run of that variant Ausf "G",
The Asiatam Metal hull is in my opinion a disaster,
It is too long although some people say not,
it needs the rear roller to be dropped by 3 to 5 mm,
fitting an idler adjuster is not difficult but the suspension is poor and a viable hull to body fixing system is a challenge pretty much left to you to resolve,
It has one good point and that is the front of the hull is removable which allows the gearbox fitting to be as easy as any in 1/16 armour,
The Taigen metal hull would appear to be available in 2 versions,
The US market (Thanks to IMEX--ERIC) and the rest of the World,
The US PZ4 has the rear rollers dropped as they should be, everyone else has to do it themselves!!!
fitting rear track tension Idler adjusters is a nightmare, It needs the rear section to be abraded almost to the the side of the hull, and then using an extended "Tap" drive a thread into the Faux Adjuster and screwing in the working Idler Adjuster,
Almost every Tank I have ever built needs Gearbox output shaft Support bearings,
The Taigen Metal hull does its very best to stop you doing that!!!
It is possible to slide close fitting bearings along the output shafts and just getting them into the Faux output shaft housings but it is very important that the Idlers, Rollers, Sprockets and Wheels are all alighned and some grinding of the output shaft housing with a dremel may be needed,
The Taigen quick release hull to body system similar to the fitted to the Tiger is ok but a magnetic closure set up is better,
The suspension is no better than Asiatam's and is a poor reflection when compared with Tamiya's version,
The Body Of the Taigen PZ4 is for anyone prepping it for paint and weathering a Pain, All the fixtures and fitting are "Moulded" in place whereas the Heng Long PZ4 Body fixtures and fittings come on separate sprues with the positions for them being predrilled,
The top of the engine bay of both bodies are straight from turret base to exhausr drum when they should be sloped by 5 degree's,
If you are after accuracy there is only one choice and that is the Tamiya Ausf J but it is exactly that' It is an AUSF J which is different enough from the Ausf G with a different one piece cupola hatch and relocated radio aerial as well as hull side and turret armour to make it a difficult choice on whether to fit Taigens latest Turret which really is better than Tamiyas but it is for the Ausf G and needs work to get it to the Ausf J standard..
There are kits both in resin and 3D print to help to build just about any PZ4 version that takes your interest and then comes the Anti-Tank and the Bridgelayer and the Submersible etc, The list is almost endless,
.I do hope that adds to the confusion.

Ghost@amps1

Hello once again H20haze,

I know that the Panzer4 and Shermans don't come with adjustable idlers - you can't even but them with adjustable torsion bars.. I think a lot of tanks are like this except for the later ones so there's not much that can be done for many tankers except to lubricate them and perhaps one day replace the entire hull when needed.
The Panzer G's, Tiger's, Leopard's and Abrahm's especially are quite popular so I thought I'd get something that wasn't , like the Pz4G AufF. The more I look at it the more I like it (the Taigen model sold only from Germany. Looks badass to me and has some detal as well such as rivets, opening hatches and a 'cast iron' one mould turret.

Ghost@amps1

I have looked extensively on that German site and never came across any idle adjuster tools for Pz4G's but will look again. No torsion bar adjusters for this model either.

So from your initial response to this thread, how does one best go about taking a link or part of a track on a Pz4G? Do you just somehow slide the whole track out and then work on it before putting it back on?

Crius

I always pull one pin to separate the tracks. Erik has a good video on removing tracks at the taigen tanks youtube channel.

jarndice

First of all why do you refer to the Panzer 4 as a "G"? there were 9 different Ausf letters from Ausf "A" to Ausf "J" There was not a Ausf "I", These represent the 9 versions of the Panzer 4,
On sale now is the Ausf F, this has the short main gun and is sold by Heng Long then there is the long barrel Ausf G sold by Taigen as an F2 and Tamiya sell an Ausf "J"
To have Torsion bar adjusters the tank would have to have torsion bar suspension and apart from the original first prototype all the Panzer 4s had 1/4 elliptic leaf spring suspension,
Track Tensioners which are used to tighten and loosen the Idlers and thereby the tracks are readily available from
www.rctank.de
by selecting Tank accessories and clicking on PZ4,
There are 2 types on sale, the Euro 17.55 is the better of the two.
Removing track links is best done with the track removed from the Tank,
Unscrew the front sprocket and work it free from the gearbox output shaft and lift the track from the teeth of the sprocket,
of course if you fit Idler adjusters you then slacken them off and then remove the track.
The track pin is narrow at one end so an exploratory tap against one end with another track pin will determine which end you are at.
If the pin starts moving all is well if not then start at the other end.

Crius

Ah, the Panzer IV. Here's a couple of interesting little projects, the first in 1:2 scale, and if you watch the turret doors you can see the guy is inside the tank driving it.


Then there's this replica kit, no idea what it costs or if it's still even available but it's 1:1 and I'm guessing with one of these beauties parked in the front yard you won't be needing a guard dog.


And there's another great project out there where a guy made a PIV from a Crown Vic, easily available for cheap at police auctions.

I'm interested to hear thoughts on these huge models. Are these guys doing something very cool, or are they just whack-jobs?

But this is the one I really want, as the PIII has always been my favorite tank.


One more item on the "If I win the Lottery" list.

Ghost@amps1

thanks Crius.

jarndice

It has occurred to me that you are not talking about the Panzer 4 but the PANTHER V (5) Ausf G which is a completely different Tank for which I have very little interest or knowledge.

Ghost@amps1

I'm aware of that now. I think I was getting confused with the PANTHER 'G'. Geez!

Ghost@amps1

First Dealer's.-----
www.forgebeartanks.com
is a UK based site run by Dave and Julie, It is one of the best in the World and can be trusted, They sell worldwide including to the American and Canadian market,
www.rctank.de
is a German based site run by Dom who is as straight as a die,
Panzer 4 metal hulls are either good (Tamiya) or second rate (Taigen/Torro/ Asiatam)
History,
The Panzer 4 was the only German Tank in production from the start to the end of WW2 and was built in 9 (TANK) versions known as "Ausf" starting with Ausf "A" there was not an "I" and ending with Ausf "J",
There is some confusion in our hobby about the Ausf "F2",
The change from the Infantry support Ausf "F" to the long barrel upgrade Tank caused problems in the logisics chain of the German Army because the change caused a new Ausf designation to be issued (Ausf "F2") and this caused massive problems in the supply chain as clerks down the line who had probably never seen a Tank let alone a PZ4 were not adding the (2) and the wrong parts were being issued down an already overloaded system so after just 50 Ausf F2 were issued the designation was altered to Panzerkampfwagen Ausf "G" and the following 1500 Ausf "G" were pretty much identical to the F2 and many of us call the whole production run of that variant Ausf "G",
The Asiatam Metal hull is in my opinion a disaster,
It is too long although some people say not,
it needs the rear roller to be dropped by 3 to 5 mm,
fitting an idler adjuster is not difficult but the suspension is poor and a viable hull to body fixing system is a challenge pretty much left to you to resolve,
It has one good point and that is the front of the hull is removable which allows the gearbox fitting to be as easy as any in 1/16 armour,
The Taigen metal hull would appear to be available in 2 versions,
The US market (Thanks to IMEX--ERIC) and the rest of the World,
The US PZ4 has the rear rollers dropped as they should be, everyone else has to do it themselves!!!
fitting rear track tension Idler adjusters is a nightmare, It needs the rear section to be abraded almost to the the side of the hull, and then using an extended "Tap" drive a thread into the Faux Adjuster and screwing in the working Idler Adjuster,
Almost every Tank I have ever built needs Gearbox output shaft Support bearings,
The Taigen Metal hull does its very best to stop you doing that!!!
It is possible to slide close fitting bearings along the output shafts and just getting them into the Faux output shaft housings but it is very important that the Idlers, Rollers, Sprockets and Wheels are all alighned and some grinding of the output shaft housing with a dremel may be needed,
The Taigen quick release hull to body system similar to the fitted to the Tiger is ok but a magnetic closure set up is better,
The suspension is no better than Asiatam's and is a poor reflection when compared with Tamiya's version,
The Body Of the Taigen PZ4 is for anyone prepping it for paint and weathering a Pain, All the fixtures and fitting are "Moulded" in place whereas the Heng Long PZ4 Body fixtures and fittings come on separate sprues with the positions for them being predrilled,
The top of the engine bay of both bodies are straight from turret base to exhausr drum when they should be sloped by 5 degree's,
If you are after accuracy there is only one choice and that is the Tamiya Ausf J but it is exactly that' It is an AUSF J which is different enough from the Ausf G with a different one piece cupola hatch and relocated radio aerial as well as hull side and turret armour to make it a difficult choice on whether to fit Taigens latest Turret which really is better than Tamiyas but it is for the Ausf G and needs work to get it to the Ausf J standard..
There are kits both in resin and 3D print to help to build just about any PZ4 version that takes your interest and then comes the Anti-Tank and the Bridgelayer and the Submersible etc, The list is almost endless,
.I do hope that adds to the confusion.[/QUOTE]

Why do you doggedly insist on confusing me? No I don't want a Tamiya (it's a very very minor inaccuracy anyways) or a HL. I really like and want the TAIGEN Pz4 Ausf.G V2steel metal version RTR IR (or upgrade it from airsoft later to IR - do you know how easy that is or not?)), two toned camo "Kharkov" wide winter metal track version that I can only find on the 'Panzer.de' site in Germany. But I will check out the British site you referred me to though first, thx.

From ALL that you are saying, it might just be a hell of a lot better and easier just instead to get the metal version PANTHER G than go through all the re-fitting problems I'd have down the road with a PANZER4?
Would I have the same lower hull problems that you described with the SHERMAN's as well?

"Almost every Tank I have ever built needs Gearbox output shaft Support bearings" - do you mean the "flanges" or "bearings"?

Ghost@amps1

Yup the top two are badass looking Panzer4's but the guys in the bottom aren't quite 'gone' yet - they just really like Afrika Corps armoured vehicles

jarndice

The V2 control board was quite short lived in production,
The V3 is a better board with built in recoil and is now the standard fit control board,
I know nothing about the M4 Sherman and I meant "Bearings".

H2Ohaze

I don't think the lack of idler tensioners on the PIV should necessarily stop you- you should get the tank you want . I have four Taigen IR's and have had a blast with them, a family friend in the "bubble" comes over and we battle on the front lawn. All four of my Taigens seem to run a slight little differently, all have strengths and weaknesses. For example, sure the PIV doesn't have the track adjusters but it has a "solid metal" chassis as opposed to a "metal" chassis (as quoted from Taigentanks website, I think they mean 2mm thick metal with almost no plastic but not sure). The Shermans likewise, mine looks beefy. I don't have a PIV, but do have a PIII with modified gearing, and I like the look of all the bolted on extra armour plate, and the fact that it maneuvers well.

So maybe research the diffs, get the tank you like the look of, run it, take it apart when needed, have fun.

jarndice

Idler adjusters (Track Tensioners) for the Panzer4 are a very good idea and I have fitted them to all my PZ4s BUT any study of photographs of Panzer 4s in the field show that many Tanks ran with the tracks quite loose,
What has to be remembered is that in service the PZ4s max Highway speeds were approx 35/42 Kmph (20/28Mph) and far slower off road so throwing tracks was not a common occurance,
Our 1/16 Tanks throw tracks because we run them with the original Heng Long/Taigen/Torro Gearboxes which are not scale unless you really think slot car speeds are normal for a WW2 Medium Tank,
It makes removing/replacing tracks easier if you fit Idler adjusters but if you don't "Fight" your Tank then running it without should not be a problem.
Plastic/ABS Hulls are fine with a plastic body and metal turret as long as some reinforcement is fixed to the side of the hull.
I cut out the battery box to provide more internal space but that is just me,
The advantage of making extra space is that you can fit a wider choice of control boards/receivers/smokers/sound cards all because you can fit much smaller battery's with the same output such as Li-Pos/Li-ions,
Coating the floor of a plastic hull with epoxy resin will add more rigidity.

Ghost@amps1

I think you're right about the idler and sprocket wheels on the PZ German site not being as aligned up as straight across as the US version. Also about the V3 boards and its anti-tank recoil - the US (not the German version) has it as well, plus it's less $$ which is always nice (don't get a nice wooden box with it though) and I've come around to really liking the white winter metal camo of it and the turret and barrel is steel as well.
What I'm going to do (if I have enough width in it), is take out the stock 3 - 1 gears and 380 motors and replace them with the 4 - 1 gears and 390 motors in order to smoothly slow it down.a bit. The 4 -1 is slower than the 3 -1 but has more torque so that's good - it just has to fit and if it doesn't then I'll have to just wait a bit and rely on an Elmond and maybe some chains, etc. to do the job. I'm already painfully aware of how fast and 'zippy' most of these standard issue tanks are and don't know why (other than cost?) why they're outfitted with them.
Unfortunately, the 2nd 1/16 scale WWII tank I already have my eyes on (Sherman 76) won't take anything else except its stock 3 -1.

I checked out 5 different major tank co.s including the two Taigen sites and not a single one, whatsoever, has any torsion bar adjusters, track tensioners, or idler adjusters for the TAIGEN Pz4, only for the Heng Long's and those are plastic and probably don't do the best job on a TAIGEN. So, what I'll do instead is lubricate as many of the gears and bearings with a thicker lubricant and spray the more difficult to reach bearing's with a high quality spray lubricant can with a short flexible plastic straw for the rest, where I can. The rest will just have to last as long as possible.
Cutting out the plastic middle hull portion of the battery compartment is ingenious. Is that what you mean by "making more room"? Also, heating and melting your own resin to help attach items in your tank; that's also what you mean, right?

Ghost@amps1

I like your Taigen and Sherman enthusiasm - really helped change my mind back solidly to its 3V Pz4 Ausf G, winter camo metal US BB version. Researched the major diffs. Cool looking beast it is and of course I'll let you know when I post a photo of it. I think when it says "2mm" on the lower hull it means 2mm thick either throughout the metal lower hull it's (it's all metal, as the suspension system, tracks, wheels, turret and barrel) or just the front part that slopes down to the ground. I don't know but eventually will find out. And, I searched 5 different online tank sites today and none had any torsion bar tensioners, track tighteners, bearings or idle adjusters for Taigen's Pz4 Aus.G (just [plastic tighters for HL), so I'll just have to try to keep things running as tight and as lubricated as I can, for as long as I can. Not overly worried about it nor should I be. I think overall it's a pretty damn 'good' tank. The Taigen Sherman 76mm is the next and 2nd tank on my list - yeah they do look pretty good - a little 'strange' but good.
Alright - keep on tainken'.

Anubizz

I go with IR if I were you, BB novelty runs out really fast, barrel recoil add alot of realism, I can play with my nephew with ir tank while here in Australia it is illegal and dangerous to play bb around children. Not to mention HL already made barrel smoke system. With barrel recoil + barrel smoke+ red/ orange led it will be sweet. And if taigen manage to copy HL 1 track recoil it will be even better, at the moment Taigen track recoil is like earthquake.

H2Ohaze

wrt 3;1, 4:1 (even 5:1), etc gearboxes... well it's confusing, and now there is a V3 or 7:1 from Taigen. I really like the new V3 in my Sherman, yes it is a little more noisy as I say in the thread, but I love the control over the speed. They make the V3 for the PIV if you wish or the V2:

Taignen v3 gearboxes thoughts