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  1. #26
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    James came to my house to get the Miss America today and brought his PTE36R.

    We measured it and I took some photos. It is a good looking engine.

    I found it on another web site and these guys seem to be equipped with parts. There are some videos at Pterodactyl PTE36R 36cc rear exhaust engine
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  2. #27
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I came into possession of a new and never run MLD-35 engine recently and have been preparing to use it on The World Model P-51 G.S. However, I may not use it. It weighs 2 pounds and 9 ounces without the ignition and mounting will be an issue. I have attached photos with it beside a Saito 180. The firewall would have to be cut out so that the carb would stick back into the fuselage with the length at the usable 6.15 inches. I would probably have to create a box to contain carb spray.

    James Barr got the PTE36R for his Miss America. He had some issues with vibration on the test stand, but the vibration may have been related to the test stand. We don't know for sure. If you watch some of the videos, you can see that they do shake on hard mounted test stands. DLE gives warnings about using a test stand.

    This page has some good info on the PTE36R [link]http://www.ibcinyourc.com/store.php?seller=carden540&navt1=55749&navt2=60028&pd=4557781[/link]

    The PTE36R only weighs 2 pounds and 4 ounces and has no firewall issues. Plus the rear exhaust is nice and fits right behind the cylinder and the firewall. it looks like the engine to get if the vibration is not too much of an issue.

    I am probably going to hang the MLD-35 on the front of the P-51 without moding the firewall and see what the balance looks like.
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  3. #28
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I will be mounting the elevator servos and the rudder servo in the fuselage at the tail. And I will glue in the horizontal stabilizer even though it is designed to be removable. I will glue on the stab after everything is done and balance is close so I can add weight inside if needed. I may make a pocket so I can add weight easily on the opposite side of the rudder servo.

    Luckily the engine mount blind nuts happened to be a perfect fit for the bottom standoffs on the MLD-35. So I was able to hang it right on front. It is not flush with the firewall, but 1/2 inch isn't going to make that much difference in the gross balance test.

    I put the servos on the tail, in the boxes with hardware just because the boxes aren't much different than the horns and stuff that will be used. And I put the wing servos on top of the wing over their positions. I taped the belly pan on and the canopy. I also taped on the bottom rear cowl piece. Then I put on the cowl.

    My son and I tested the balance and I was pleasantly surprised that there was still plenty of weight that could be added to the front. So I added the 13 ounce aluminum heavyweight spinner and still had half an inch to work with. The electronic ignition was not in place and there is no prop on it. But I plan to use a lighter eight ounce Dave Brown 5" Standard 2-Blade Aluminum Spinner if needed.

    In terms of the carb sticking into the fuselage, there is a former about 3-4 inches from the firewall that was to hold the tank. It has three cutouts in it and I will cover those to form an airbox. I will put a velocity stack on the carb since there is room and I will put a scoop or openings into the airbox for fresh air. The tank will be mounted close to the CG.

    At least now I know I can start working on doing things and I finally have little bits of time to get some work done on it.
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  4. #29
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I order the MLD35 Pitts Muffer and the Drill Jig Specially for MLD28 / MLD35 / MLD43 / MLD70 along with a few other accessories last Sunday and they came on Saturday. Shipping via EMS was not too expensive and was quick.

    I wish I had found this thread MLD-35 Gasoline Engine before I ordered as it seems the stock ignition is not very good and it appears I need the RCEXL ignition if this engine is going to be reliable.

    For what I will have spent on additional items, I could have gone with the O.S. GT33 Gasoline Engine with the O.S. Standoff 5x44.5mm 1-3/4" GT55 (4). However, I did not have the balance information and I did not know if the O.S. would fit.

    Based on what I know now. I believe it will. I'm still not 100% sure, but I have looked at [link]http://downloads.hobbico.com/misc/osm/osmg1533-3-view2.pdf[/link] and at the MLD-35 with the Pitt muffler on the plane and I believe the O.S. will work. Maybe just some minor firewall mods.

    I took the carb and reed valve body off the MLD-35 and put it on the P-51. I will actually use 1/4" spacers and move it out a little for clearance on the muffler. There is enough room on the cowl for an additional 3/8" beyond the specified 6.15" from firewall to cowl ring. I will still cut out the firewall for the carb and make an airbox around the carb.

    One thing I have learned about gas engines is that you do not run them on a hard test stand. So I'm going to have to invest in a new Vibration Dampening RC Engine Test Stand. I've wanted a second portable test stand anyway and I will use my current PSP stand on a metal sawhorse with a wood board.
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  5. #30
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I went looking for some TWM P-51 GS videos and I found some decent ones. I'm going to compile a complete list and add them to my site, but here are two I found very encouraging as they both use the DLE-30 and the flight performance seems quite reasonable for some giant scale racing.

    One interesting comment about using Spring Air retracts instead. The included mechanical retracts seem ok, but the Spring Air units look really heavy duty. The 103HD set on this page [link]http://www.retracts.com/Retrax_100.htm[/link] looks like possibly the right choice.

    [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTRoJsuwLug[/link]

    [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KFRIyAga0g[/link]
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  6. #31
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Since I’m new to gas and if anyone else that may want to try this may be also, I’m going to continue to document what I do in the gas engine process as well as the radio installation as those are the parts that are different than the smaller planes. Different engines will have different issues, but James Barr and I are having the same engine questions, so others will likely have them also.

    James is much further on this project than I am. He is almost finished with his Miss America. He is dealing with getting the spinner on his. The spinner that comes with the P-51D Mustang G.S. Miss America is a plastic spinner with an aluminum backplate. It has a socket head screw that goes to an adapter nut. The nuts that come with the spinner are 5/16-24 and a size up. I’m not sure what size. The screw that goes into the nut is an M6 on my aluminum spinner. I’m not sure if James’ is an M5 or M6. The screw is only long enough to reach the adapter nut.

    On the gas engines that use prop bolts, the prop shaft typically does not have threads on the shaft. The prop is bored to fit on the shaft and the bolts hold the prop to the prop hub. In one of my previous postings I showed a prop drill jig. The jig is so you can accurately drill the prop bolt holes.

    One the MLD-35, the prop shaft has an M5 – 0.8 threaded hole in the end of it. So If an M5 would hold the spinner, theoretically I could use a long M5 socket head screw direct to the prop shaft. The screw would need to be 95mm to 100m long. Those screws can be found, but they aren’t stocked in many locations. Ironically a 10-32 will screw into a M5 threaded hole. It has just a little wiggle room. I found some 4” long 10-32 screws. But I don’t think that even Loctite would keep them from coming loose.

    On the MLD-35, the prop shaft is simply an aluminum sleeve that is actually threaded M10 on one end and M5 on the other. I took it off a couple of weeks ago before I ordered the Pitts muffler and the drill jig. They were only a couple of bucks, so I ordered 3 of them. I went to Monroe Hardware on Saturday and found some screws. One I found was an M6 x 90mm. I could drill out the M5 end of the sleeve and tap it for M6. I would have about 1/4” of thread. As it turns out, that is all that is in the sleeve anyway. I did not find this out until I drilled out a sleeve for 5/16-24 and tapped it. I had found some 5/16-24 set screws to use as studs in lengths from 0.75” to 1.5”. So now I can use the spinner adapter nut. I could also use a Dubro Spinner Nut on the test stand as I plan to start the engine with a low speed hi-torque starter.

    In a trip to Lowes I found .75” steel spacers and M5 x 1.5” screws. I have the S1 PSP Universal backplate Adapter. I had to drill new holes for the standoffs as this engine does not use a standard rectangular pattern. But I got the engine mounted on the backplate adapter. With the spacers I can test with the Pitts muffler. I will actually use the stock muffler for most of the break-in as I don’t want to stress the Pitts muffler. The Pitts muffler is a little crooked, but that shouldn’t affect the installation.
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  7. #32

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I finally finished my Miss America. Got in the first flight.

    Don has suggested that I do a build thread on the aircraft. I will give it my best shot.

    I may not be the best writer but I am a very experienced pilot and builder.

    James
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  8. #33
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Congratulations James.

    I just read your first post on the build thread and you'll do a fine job. I see I will get answers to the things I have to do on mine.

    I'm even more inspired to get mine done.

    I ran my MLD-35 today. I did not wait to get the PSP Vibration Dampening test stand. My mounting post has some flex in it and I have a cushion at the bottom of the post. So I went for it.

    I made up my gas can and tank yesterday. I made a holder for the ignition, switch, and battery last night. Only problem I had was that my 25/64" bit did not make a hole big enough for the prop shaft in the Xoar 18x8 prop. In the APC 18x6W I was able to get it on. I guess the wood is a little more resilient. So I had to go to Lowes this morning for a 13/32" bit.

    After I got everything set up, I tried to start it. It only fired one time. When I ordered the Pitts muffler and prop drill jig, I ordered 3 extra hall sensors because I had read that some people had them bad out of the box. I changed it. Then it started right up. It took me a little while to get the adjustments reasonably decent.

    I used Klotz Gas RC Modelube and I mixed it 32:1 instead of 50:1 since the engine was new. I probably should have gone 50:1, or 40:1 at the max. But this gas stuff is new to me. Gas engines tune a little differently than glow engines. After tuning, I now wonder how well tuning would work with the vibration dampening test stand. But I also wonder how much stress the hard test stand puts on the engine.

    I made a video of a run. The low end is rich as I was having trouble getting it to run leaned out, so I had a little trouble with the transition, but the video is at [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1BLAzqqg60[/link]. I used a geared starter that I had bought for four stroke engines. It had no problem with this size of engine and I was only using a 7 amp battery.

    I did choke the engine prior to starting. Did you set up a choke on yours?
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  9. #34
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I have at least 4 engines to run this weekend. One of them is the MLD-35 for P51GSR.

    I was going to order the O.S. GT33 Gasoline Engine, but Tower is out-of-stock right now.

    I was planning to order some stuff for the MLD-35 anyway as I have it and it seems very strong. Parts are cheap as you can see at [link]http://www.sdshobby.net/Wholesale/mld-35-is-1-sid-1.html[/link]. I see comments from people about sending in gas engines for service. This makes gas sound intimidating. Today I found out it is not so bad after all.

    Because winds are 10-15 and skies are partly cloudy with a 10% chance of rain, I decided that I would do some engine work this weekend. I have several engines I had cleaned that need to get some test stand time. I set up a tent over my test stand sleeve on Friday afternoon so I would be ready for the weekend.

    I ran the MLD-35 with different fuel. I switched to Pennzoil Air Cooled oil in a 30:1 mix (4.5 ounces to one gallon). I also switched to a 4.8 NiCd 100mAh battery. I have not gotten a new ignition yet. I was getting 8170 rpm on the high end and I was able to get under 2000 on the low end. After one adjustment things went south. I could no longer get the engine up to speed. I changed the mixtures completely, Then I changed the battery for another of exactly the same type. I still could not get it to run at speed. When I turned it over I was hearing a squeak. Not good I thought. So I took the engine off from the standoffs.

    I took it inside and took off the spinner. Then I took off the cylinder and the back of the crankcase. Nothing appeared to have a problem. Everything looks good. I reassembled the engine and put it back on the test stand. But I switched to a 5 cell 2000 mAh NiMH battery. At first it did the same thing, but after about 30 seconds it started running properly. And it is a horse. I could get it up to 8200. But I backed it down to 7900. This is with a Xoar 18x8 prop.

    I took some photos. I also took a couple of photos from the very back of my yard/field. I don't have the full 10 acres field anymore, but I can still fly electrics and 3D planes on the 3+ acre part that I have full control over. And the adjacent parts got mowed last weekend and this weekend. So I will be flying even more now.

    Don't let the bigger size of gas engines intimidate you. They are actually more inviting to work on than the small engines, except the price of parts is higher. While I'm going to get the GT33, I think I'm going to see what I can wring out of the MLD-35.

    BTW, we are staying with the 38cc max limit for [link]http://www.P51GiantScaleRacing.com[/link]
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  10. #35
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Posted by: Barry Reade

    Tell us more about your test stand. Does it have a dampening rubber for the mount? I didn't see one wondered if that was alright?
    It is not the dampening test stand. And I need to get the vibration dampening test stand. I can actually feel the ground shaking at times with the MLD-35. Heck, I can even feel it vibrate with the glow engines at the right frequencies.

    The one I have is the original version of [link]http://www.pspmfg.com/RCEngineTestStand.html[/link]

    I'm going to get [link]http://www.pspmfg.com/VibrationDampeningRCEngineTestStand.html[/link] but PSP apparently took off for Joe Nall. There was a note on the web site a week ago Thursday morning as I was getting ready to order that orders after 10:00am would ship after 5/22. Also, the version of the dampening stand with the holder for the 3" wide big tanks is "Temporarily out of stock". I had bought two tanks. One for gas and one for glow.

    I did not run glow engines today. I am going to take the test stand and the plywood holder for the ignition and battery off and run glow tomorrow. One thing that concerns be about the dampening stand is where do I put the ignition and battery. I used a 12" x 12" x 1/4" piece of plywood to hold the ignition, a switch, and the battery. I put it between the post and the test stand. So it is stationary with the engine. If I get the vibration dampening test stand and do the same, the ignition wire to the plug and the hall effect sensor cables will be flexing with every vibration. I don't like that. So somehow I have to find a way to use a holder for those items. The PSP site does not show that. They show the cables flexing. That is not something I want. That is also why I hesitated to get the dampening stand.
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  11. #36

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Thanks for answering my question Don.  I see we still need to do some research as I feel as you do to put everything on the same platform and have it all rattle the same.    You know what I mean.
    Barry...
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  12. #37

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I need a portable stand and will be calling PSP this week and asking questions.
    Barry...
    http://www.RCPRO.org

  13. #38
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Check out the stand in this video O.S. GT33 Gasoline Engine - Low Idle Demonstration. It looks to be a 6" x 6" with cuts on it for what are called "Floor Flanges". I found them at Home Depot in the plumbing section along with pipe threaded to fit in 36" and 48" lengths. I bought the 3/4" size because that was all they had that matched up. Plus they looked to be the same as in the video except the ones I bought are galvanized. Lowes has them also.

    You would get flex in the legs.

    In some of the videos by these guys, they have a rope at the rear. I would drill a 1/2" to 3/4" hole through the rear and use a rope as a tie down. I'm doing that on a sawhorse test stand for the smaller engines.

    I have a test stand, so why do I care. I'm not sure the PSP vibration stand is the optimal solution. Plus this seems easy to carry into the garage. I would still use the PSP backplates because it is hard to beat the pre-drilled mounting holes and the carb openings. I would possibly still use a PSP base (non-dampening) even on one of these 6" x 6" bases.

    I am still focused on putting my plane together. I took the covering off the bottom of the open bays in one half of the wing to get a look at the wing structure this week. It is fine for the 38cc and under engines and I don't see a problem with it with those engines. I may or may not fully sheet the wing. At this point, I'm not planning to. I don't see the wing being up to 50cc engines without significant work and I'm not going to do that on this one.

    What I am considering is Robart Retracts and RoboStruts. That is one reason I was taking a look at the wing. The primary reason was the consideration of 55cc engines for the racing class, but I also like the looks of the Robart Right Hand RoboStrut 3 3/4-4" Wheel 7/16". I was going to order them and either the Robart 551RS 85 Degree Main Gear RoboStrut Ready or the Robart 701RS 85 Degree Spring Down RoboStrut Ready, but the Robart Left Hand RoboStrut 3 3/4-4" Wheel 7/16" are out of stock.
    Don Stegall - www.RCCalculators.com - The everyday app for R/C Modelers
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  14. #39
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I have decided to abandon efforts to get the MLD-35 working well enough to use in the P-51 for several reasons.

    One, it may not be as reliable as other engines. I would be beating a dead horse and jeopardizing my plane. It may be fine with a new ignition, but that is more money and more risk.

    Second, the DLE Engines DLE-30cc Gas Engine Rear Carburetor is a good fit for this airplane and is a well known engine. It may not be quite as powerful, but it is a bolt in fit and will probably be the choice of many people who try this class out.

    A Tuned Pipe Silencer System is available for about $80 that should boost the power of the DLE-30.

    I looked at parts for the DLE-30 at Tower and if you look at [link]http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0005p?&I=DLEG0031&P=Z[/link] they aren't too bad with the exception of the ignition and I will likely try a different ignition anyway (Rcexl).

    I had fun with the MLD-35. I'm glad I had it to play with. Especially since I did not have help from anyone in person and was going it alone.
    Don Stegall - www.RCCalculators.com - The everyday app for R/C Modelers
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  15. #40

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    These are all the links to the RCPRO P-51 GS proposed rules, etc.  

    RCPRO P-51 Giant Scale Racing

    Links to this page
    www.P51GS.com
    www.P51GSR.com
    www.P51GiantScaleRacing.com
    www.P51Racing.com
    www.P-51Racing.com


    Barry...
    http://www.RCPRO.org

  16. #41
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?


    ORIGINAL: BarryReade

    I need a portable stand and will be calling PSP this week and asking questions.
    I got the PSP Vibration Dampening Test Stand today. It looks interesting. I see a variety of ways of attaching a plate to hold the ignition and battery. Not as easily as what I did for the original, but easy enough. I will post detail on that later.

    Today I built a new test stand base based on the one in the video. I used a 6"x6"x8' cut to 32" long. I used a 12 amp reciprocating saw to make the cuts in the wood. AKA, a "sawzall". This is an especially handy tool to have around the house, I can tell already.

    I used 3/4" floor flanges and 36" pieces of 3/4" pipe pre-threaded on both ends. I put 1" chair feet on the ends of the pipe. I used #14 by 2" flat head screws to hold on the floor flanges.

    I'm going to drill a 3/4" hole on the tail end for a tie-down rope.

    With the legs, there is flex and I think this will actually be better than the post I have in the ground. I will put my old PSP stand on this base. I'm going to be testing tuned pipes on the GT33, so I will have a support for the pipe.

    I will draw up plans for this stand and put them on RCPRO.

    Go here for pictures New Test Stand
    Don Stegall - www.RCCalculators.com - The everyday app for R/C Modelers
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  17. #42
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I got my PSP Vibration Dampening RC Engine Test Stand on Saturday. I was busy making the new tripod base test stand, but I had a look at the PSP. One of the things I wanted to do with the PSP is make a holder for the ignition and ignition battery for the gas engines. I was able to figure out how to make a holder. And I made one. See pictures of what I did at PSP Vibration Dampening Test Stand plus some more pictures.

    The stand uses springs and can travel up and down on the 4 posts that are sprung to absorb the vibration.I made a video of the test stand in action and you can see it at [link]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPcwz-cm3Zg[/link]. The engine was not fully warmed up and with the ignition that is on it, it is misfiring. I have a new ignition on the way. But it is a good demonstration of how the stand absorbs the shocks and vibration.

    I think this may be one better way to run the gas engines on a test stand so that they don't suffer the shock of the vibration and shaken themselves apart while you are trying to break them in.
    Don Stegall - www.RCCalculators.com - The everyday app for R/C Modelers
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  18. #43

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I just found this thread- I see you are looking for engines- you should take a look a the Syssa SAP180 30 cc engine made in the USA. They say it is designed for higher rpms- tested up to 14k. So with the right prop maybe this engine has the potential for good speeds for racing. The DLE engines are good engines but don't seem to be designed for rpm but more for torque/thrust for aerobatics.

    Also take a look at the Spring Air 400 series retracts. I have used these and they are a very reliable brand of retracts, and they are sized for this plane and they are very strong. This is the retracts I have in my TWM P-51 GS.

    I have the DLE30cc engine which I am mounting in my GS but not done yet- But if I were racing I would take a hard look at the Syssa.

    Ed
    \"there are fighters and there are targets\"

  19. #44

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Ed, are you using the 90* or 85* retracts?

    I have just started my TWM P-51 GS and am looking at the LADO retract systems but your Spring Airs look interesting.

    Can you post some pics?
    Barry...
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  20. #45

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    My Spring Airs are the older version of the 400 series, which are taller so pictures of my installation will not show how you could do yours. But I will look for some and maybe take some to show you the general idea. But Spring Air now has a lower profile 400 series which I would get if I bought them now- these would fit down into the wing better, plus my GS is about 8-10 years old now as I recall.

    I bought the Miss America when that was the only version they had available - none of the military versions were for sale yet. I recently had mine redone in a military covering scheme using decals from the old Pica 89 inch mustang which is the bluenose Cripes-A-Mighty 3, so it doesn't resemble the Miss America now, but it was a little tattered after 10 years. But its a great flying plane and it has survived 10 years for me so I'm happy with it. Just be sure to balance it where they show - I once moved my CG back 3/8 inch and it had a tendency to snap out of the top of a loop at that CG, but when I moved it back to where they show it doesn.t do that at all- not even at low speeds- no nasty low speed stalls at all- it's a great design.

    However I haven't flown it at racing speeds, the fatest I have flown it is at full power/speed with a super tiger 2300 (!.4) with a master aircrew 17-8 scimitar prop, but it was easily faster than my 60 size mustangs once it unloaded in the air.

    Ed
    \"there are fighters and there are targets\"

  21. #46

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Great Ed, are you using 90* or 85* main gear?
    Barry...
    http://www.RCPRO.org

  22. #47

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    Oh - yes 85 degree is what I have - I get 85 for all my mustangs, sort of a habit with me.

    Ed
    \"there are fighters and there are targets\"

  23. #48

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    If anyone is interested I noticed that Syssa has a sale on their 30cc gas engine - the ad says the next 3 sold will go for $399.00. It also reiterates what I said about the engine being tested to 14,000 rpm.

    By the way this ad is in the gas engines section of the rcuniverse for sale area.

    Ed
    \"there are fighters and there are targets\"

  24. #49

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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    the Syssa 30cc engine is interesting.  It is a reed valve engine so it will Qualify for the new RCPRO P-51 GS Class.
    Barry...
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  25. #50
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    RE: Experienced with the TWM P-51 GS?

    I got a O.S. GT33 Gasoline Engine. I had a very important project at work and didn't get to touch it until Saturday. I got it mounted on a PSP backplate and today I ran it.

    I could not use my starter. The starter would start the MLD-35 fine, but not this puppy. Too much compression. I had to hand start it. And I REALLY don't like to do that. But it wasn't so bad after all. Only took about 6 flips after I started in earnest and not just practicing. I had heard that you couldn't hand flip these things. The ignition appears to be made by Rcexl now. I used an Rcexl tachometer with no problem using a Y adapter between the sensor and the ignition. So nice being able to see the RPM's without using a hand-held tach.

    This engine is well made. it is definitely a quality engine. Some things concern me. I have read that people have broken the backplate using an electric starter. With the compression so high I can see how a low of pressure is needed. I'm going to get this starter [link]http://www.sdshobby.net/super-big-starter-can-use-for-80cc-gas-plane-p-2149.html[/link] even though shipping on it is a little expensive as it is still less than anything I have found in the US.

    It is extremely smooth running even though it is not broken in and now only has 24 ounces of fuel through it.

    Only thing that concerns me is the top end. Even when the MLD-35 was brand new, it would turn 7500-7800 with a Xoar 18x8. The GT33 is *****g out at 6000 with a Xoar 18x8. The MLD-35 is Schnuerle ported and unless the case is hiding it, the GT33 is not. It may just need breaking in as others report better performance. But the GT33 is running much better.

    I got the Rcexl Single Ignition for NGK CM6-10MM for the MLD-35 this week and will be trying it. If the MLD-35 out-performs the GT33 and starts running well, I may go with it on the P-51. I'm leaving the GT33 on the test stand until it is broken in.

    I have to sheet Quickie wings today and work on web sites, so I have limited time the rest of the day.

    BTW, AirBorne Models has a few minor flawed P-51 Mustang G.S. planes that they will sell as Scratch and Dent for $200 plus shipping ... Call Steve at 925-371-0922 ... Call before I do
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    Don Stegall - www.RCCalculators.com - The everyday app for R/C Modelers
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