GordonFreeman

Boy not much action in this forum.

I've got E-Flights Extra 260 profile with thier recommended VPP setup (accept for battery, older 3S 800maH). I use thier 370 hollow shaft 1200kv motor with thier showstopper VPP set-up. It weighs about 11.7 oz with battery.

My question is why doesn't it seem to have the same thrust in reverse as forward? It will climb quite well forward, but I can only get it stop inverted.

Throttle curves, pitch curves, etc are all as close a humanly possible to being symetric/same. In fact it is quite easy to physically check the pitch forward and reverse because the prop folds and you can simply measure tip to tip. It is also easy to confirm center/zero pitch.

If we assume all that is correct, what could cause a difference in thrust from forward to reverse?

About the only thing I can think of is the fuselage. When the air passes over the fuse normally (forward) it flows straighter down. But when inverted, the air is allowed to move around more (perhaps in a spiral and outward).

Thoughts?

hellblastervolly

Hi Gordon.

I also have the E-flite Extra 260 with the Showstopper, w/TP 730 ( a 900 is better ) and CC 25 amp. The reason why you don't have the same thrust in reverse as forward is because your motor is taking all that extra torque from the down movement in the prop making it slow down ( flat props are like air brakes ). You need to add more power to the motor in the way down than up and more pitch also to keep it from over amping your set up. You didnt said what ESC you have but one with more amp handling is better. If you have a metter use it to set it up and check for the amperage. My point is that your set up for regular fly is not the same for the reverse one. Hope this help any other question feel free to ask.

Fernando

sparky925

My Feedback: (1)

I have the same plane and i agree with hellblastervolly, but htat particular setup is not the best for backwards flying. You will have to play with the pitch and throttle curve a lot to get it there, and be careful because when you ge too much pitch, yes i said when, coupled with too much throttle you will probally snap the plane in the air. I DONT mean snap roll, i mean snap the wing off at the outer supports. getting that much pitch and throttle is murder on the airframe, so go in small stepps/

hellblastervolly

Sparky is right, most VPP pilots beef up the frame with flat CF in certain areas. But this add some weight to it.

darticus

Trying to buy a plane if need as maybe mine are no good for this and 4D setup and need advise. Would you guys share the info on what to get? I have three foamies now a 6 oz slick a 6oz Bug and a Great Planes Yak 55 3d. Any help would be great! Thanks Ron

hellblastervolly

Hi Ron.

Any foamy that is 3D capable under 12oz can be use for this, 8oz or less and center wing is better. You need a Tx that as heli mode or is for heli. You need to beef up the firewall and the foam behind it all the way past the LE of the wing. this part has to be as rigid as posible. You need a sub-micro servo for the pitch with a torque of 17oz or more and of corse you need the motor with the VPP accesory. Any other question feel free to ask.

Fernando

darticus

Hey Fernando Thanks
Do you have one? I was working with one on the simulator and they seem to fly normal but you have the ability to fly reverse. Is the Extra 260 with showstopper VPP and ,I guess, the 370 hollow shaft motor and 4-6g servos the way to go? I guess a heavier servo is needed for the SHOWSTOPPER. Advise me I would like to get a 4D. Thanks Ron

hellblastervolly

Hi Ron.

You are welcome, yes I have two setup, RCU Bipe with the V-Pich from Electrifly and the Extra 260 with showstopper VPP and 370 hollow shaft motor fro E-flite. The last one work better for me, of course the Bipe was 12oz heavy so is not fair for the rimfire, hehe. There is many VPP set up which one is up to your like. It can be E-flite, Electrifly, Hacker, Hobby Lobby with the axi, Himax or many other but the first two are the one I know. You going to need a voltmetter to keep the amps under the max when you are setting the pitch. An ESC with governor is the best choice The BL-12 from Electrifly is good or the Phoenix 25 from Castle Creations is better since you will be using 4 or 5 servos. Any other with governor will also work but I dont know much of other brands. All the servos can be 6g or less but make sure that the one for the pitch is at least 17oz of torque. The brand is up to you but if you want quality and servos that will stay in the position with out play I'll go with one of the name brand ( Futaba, JR or Hitec ) last one are very good and cheaper. For lipo battery 730 to 900 mah 3cells is the way to go. Anything else just let me know.

Fernando

darticus

Thanks Fernando
Fantastic! Glad I found someone who has some time flying a 4D. I originally wanted to put a VPP unit on my Bug which is 6 oz but people are saying its too small with only a 23.5 wingspan. I have three planes , Trying to save a little using planes I have, that I was thinking of adding a VPP unit into but everyone thinks their tooo small. My Bug 6oz was first choice my Slick Extreme 6oz second and my Yak 55 3D third. The Extra 260 with showstopper VPP and 370 hollow shaft motor fro E-flite was my next choice and I priced out all the parts. I guess you used the 20 amp ESC Elite makes? I don't know if it has a governor in it or if its needed with this. Does the 260 fly good for you?
Here is a pic of my Bug if you think I can use the 370 motor and showstopper on it with a better ESC and heavier VPP servo let me know.
I have even had some suggestions to get a mid motor plane but hard to find in the US.
Do yo have any pics you can share? Thanks Ron

hellblastervolly

Hey no problem darticus,

I think your best choice will be the Slick Extreme because the electrifly Yak 55 3D will be to heavy. But even the slick dont look to strong on the nose, you can try to reinforce it. The extra 260 fly very good I have it a little on the heavy side since I fly it outside. I did have to reinforce all the CF so they will not pop out in fly or in a landing. You can use the E-flite 20-Amp Brushless ESC it dont have governor, is not necesary to have it but with it it will give you that extra help of preventing the ESC
from overpowering the sistem by regulating the rpm. I have the BL-12 for my RCU bipe and have a Phoenix 25 by castle creation for the extra 260 both have governor. I also have the e-flite 10-Amp Pro Brushless ESC I use it with the extra with out a problem but you have to be careful to not over amping the sistem by giving to much pitch. My opinion, the extra or other planes will do better than the ones that you have, you can still try with the slick but you may have to reinforce it good. I have some plans for a mid motor plane that you build your self, if you want to try it. The materials may come close to what an ARF plane will cost you. Think of what plane you will like and let me know Ill be happy to help you choose the sistem. I have some pics Ill try to post them soon.

Fernando

darticus

I think I want to follow you. Maybe I should search out an Extra 260 the 370 hollow shaft motor the showstopper and that Phoenix 25 by castle creation that you said has a governor in it. It sounds like this works. I guess the BL 12 ESC by great planes would also be good as it has a governor. So I think I'll be a copy cat and do as you did.
I'm using a DX7 Spektrum radio that I would have to set up for this and get an extra 6100 receiver. I'm not a great flyer but think this will be interesting to try. Send any info you can my email is [email protected] if you want to email.
Here is a plane that was suggested to me but not in the USA.
http://www.schnurzz.de/product_info....7c72acfa650f5a

A reply sent to me from the store owner
I would recommend you the following equipment, all prices are excluded tax
and in euro.

1xNippel 29,41.-
1x Motor Dw8/18 63,01.-
1x Aluminium Bladeholder 22,68.-
1x Anlenkungsset for VPP 5,87.-
1x Carbon Vprop blätter 15,97.-
1x ESC YGE 12A 38,64.-
2x Saftsack 350 2s each 10,08.-
5x Exact 4.7 je 17,64.-
5x Goldcontact connectors eacj 0,59.- = 2,52.-
1x Shipping 15.-
Paypal is a good solution to transfer the money.

I you have any questions, let me know!

Best Regards,

Manuel Nübel

hellblastervolly

That sound good Ill help you to set up your plane and we can keep contact by e-mail. You have the DX7 Spektrum I dont know if you have the one that can be change to heli mode. You need heli mode for this, so the first thing you need to do is check that before you get everything else.

The plane that they suggested is very close to the plan I have. Ill send you an email soon.

Fernando

alex.guzun

Is it posible to fly 4d with DX6i ? Is 6ch radio enought?

hellblastervolly

Alex.

Yes the 6-channel DX6i will work since it have Heli Programming Features and 6ch will work for VPP.

Fernando

alex.guzun

fantastic...
hope TURNIGY brand will bring hollow shafts as well.
as my first 3d/4d model i think it will be e-flite Extra 260 3D Profile, or should i buy Enticement F3P?

paul daniel

Anybody out there who can help with the E-flight VPP programming on the Futaba 6 EX?
Paul

hellblastervolly

Alex.

The extra 260 will do great or the sorbe if you can find one. The 370 will be to big for the Enticement F3P unles you can find a smaller motor that can be set for VVP.


Paul.

Im a JR guy but I can try to help you with the programming, tell me what you need to know. Send me an IM or E-mail me with the questions.


Fernando

darticus

Will you be helping with the VPP programing by putting in a tread that I can also read? I have a DX7 radio and I guess the programing would be good for any VPP unit. At present I have to set up for the Mamo and the Showstopper. Thanks Ron

hellblastervolly

Darticus.

Sorry for the delay, have been busy this week. I'll help you with the VPP programing just give me some time to write it and sent it to you in a PM or E-mail.

Fernando

alex.guzun

Could you please send it here, maybe some one else will use it for future projects.
Thank you

darticus

Thanks that would be great. Ron

mike526mp

My Feedback: (1)

wonder if the prop working in reverse might have a little to do, remember the old free flight advice? if too much power install propeller backwards.

hellblastervolly

Ok here is the programming for the radio with VVP it doesn’t matter if is Mamo or Showstopper. Once again sorry for the delay on the reply.

First set the radio to helicopter mode so you can set the throttle and pitch curve and make sure you have an ESC with governor. Now find the switch that change flight mode usually is the one in the front or far back and it can have 2(normal and stunt mode position 1) or 3(normal, stunt mode position1 and stunt mode position 2) positions. Move the switch to normal mode and enter the programming mode on the radio. Find were you can select the pitch curve and set the curve in normal to start at 50% or 0 degrees pitch at the lowest position of the stick and 100% at the highest. Now set the throttle curve to 50% linear.

For stunt mode you want to have 100% forward and reverse thrust. So move the switch to position 1 now go to the pitch curve screen and set the curve to 0% at low on the left side of the screen and 100% at high on the right side. When the stick is in the center the pitch need to be 0. Now go to the throttle curve and set it to a V or U configuration with 100% at low, 50% on the center and 100% at the highest for a U will be 100,75,50,75,100.

If your not going to use an ESC with no governor here is the set up but be careful in this set up you can over amp the system and damage it. The good thing with this set up the prop will stop spinning not like with the governor that it’s stay spinning.

For normal mode find the switch and move it to normal position. Now enter the programming mode on your radio then select pitch curve and set it for a linear 60% this will be close to a 5 degrees pitch propeller. Now on the throttle curve it will stay as it is 0% at low and 100% at high.

For stunt mode move the switch to position 1 and enter the programming mode and once again go to the pitch curve screen. Set it for 0% at the left side, 100% at the right side and 0% when the stick is on the center. Now go to throttle curve and make a V shape line with 100% at low stick, 0 to 30 at the center and 100% at the high point of the stick.

This setup it’s just for start then you need to tune them more as you go until you achieve the best performance of the system. Make sure you are using a wattmeter to keep the amps under control. You may find that to much pitch that was set it’s hurt more than help by over amping the system. In this case reduce the pitch curve on the radio or adjust the endpoint of the servo. Make sure the servo has at least 20oz of torque.

Hope this help, any question feel free to ask here, PM or E-mail I’ll do my best.



Good luck.

Fernando