XJet

Okay, so my little-stick is almost finished.

It's got a 34" wingspan, 6.5" chord (including ailerons), zero dihedral, symetrical section (medium thickness) and looks as if it's going to be way heavier than I wanted at about 23 oz all-up with 4 servos and 370mAH battery pack.

So what size prop do you Norvel experts recommend? I'll be running 10% nitro and I don't expect this thing to hover (I wish!) I'm just looking for a good all-round prop that will give me good takeoffs (I have an 800 yard sealed runway at my disposal) and fairly lively performance.

Andrew

Given the size, I think I would probably start with a 6x3 Master Airscrew. You might also try an APC 5.7x3 -- the APC may be a bit faster, but with a little less pulling power.

the "other" Andrew

XJet

Okay, I actually *measured* and *weighed* my little stick today (I was just guessing before).

It has 288 square inches of wing area (36" x 8" -- yeah, big eh?) and an all-up weight of 21 ounces.

That's about 10.5 oz/sq ft of wing loading.

Since I've not even started the little Norvel BigMig 061 yet, would anyone be willing to offer an indication as to how likely it is that this thing will bore holes in the sky?

I figure it's not going to be overpowered, but will it just limp around with those figures or will it be spritely enough to have a bit of fun (loops out of level flight, etc)?

I could get the weight down to about 19 ounces if I ditched the undercariage and used a lighter battery pack/receiver -- but take-offs and landings are fun :-)

Bipe Flyer

I like the APC 6X2 for thrust when using an .061. At 21 oz you will have no problem looping from level flight. A friend of mine has an .061 with a Master Airscrew 6X3 in a 42" Cub that is not particularly light and it will loop from level flight.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

The 6-3 (grish pusher) hauls my Scooter around pretty good on 25% fuel.

AJC

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

52" WS 2 pound foam trainer gets hauled around pretty good on a thimble drome 6 x 3 does the level loop thing with my .061.....Rog
oh and that black prop can take a bounce too!!
I do run between 20% and 35 % though

matchlessaero

I'll throw my 2cents in the ring for the Cox 6-3 (rubber ducky). I really don't know why it works well, but it just seems to hook up with the Big-Mig .061. I am also experimenting with it right now on an AME.

BTW, you may want to double your nitro % for a little more 'spritely' performance.

Post some pics of your rig. Would love to see it.

XJet

Does the Norvel respond well to Nitro? I have a half gallon of pure nitormethane here but I only mixed up 10% fuel because this is a brand new engine.

Okay, I'll try to remember to take my camera to the workshop tomorrow.

With all that wing-area, it actually feels lighter than its 22 ounces. I guess the weekend will tell if it's light enough.

Bipe Flyer

From Norvel's website.

Q What kind of fuel should I use in my .049 or .061 NORVEL engine?

A Recommended fuels are list in the Technical Information Library. Nitro content of 10% is good, and up to 35% is acceptable. It is important to use a recommended brand, so read the article in the T.I.L. You can cause problems with engine running if you use the wrong fuel.

Q What fuel do you really recommend, though?

A Naturally, we really recommend NORVEL NVX-brand fuel. We have tested it thoroughly and know it works perfectly with our engines. Use NVX15 or NVX25 for break-in, and NVX35 for extra power.


Personally, I break in with 15% and run 25%.

CrazyHerb

My Feedback: (1)

Personally...
I like the black plastic master airscrew 6x4's on my Norvel .061. I get 2 pack for like $2.49
The 6x3s give me a few more rpm...but I don't feel as much thrust at lower speeds...
Running 25% 1/2A fuel...

They will almost hover my CheapDelta....
Here's a couple videos to prove power...

http://www.crazyherb.com/CheapDelta/cheapdelta.htm


Good Luck! Have fun!!

CrazyHerb

XJet

Bummer -- .wmv files. Not all of us use Microsoft-based computers :-(

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI XJET! I just did a comparison between 15% and 30% fuel with a BIG MIG 061 that was running an APC 5.7-3. The tach readings were 18700 and 19400 respectively. For my money the 15% is just fine, but for special occasions I sometimes bring out the good stuff. Somedays I like to drink imported beer, other days I drink the cheap industrial swill [BUD[:'(], COORS[:'(], MILLER[:'(], etc.] I'll bet your plane would be a kick to fly with only 2 servos, which would save some weight, as well as the landing gear. If you get real at home with your plane you can do touch and goes with other parts of the plane besides the landing gear anyway!

XJet

I'm using HS81 servos, so droping two would save me about an ounce. The undercarriage also weighs in at about an ounce and a bit -- but a stik without landing gear looks just plain funny (to me anyway).

Switching to the FMA M5 instead of the Hitec 555, and using 4x HS55 servos instead of the 4x HS81s would probably be a more fun way to put the bird on a diet without compromising anything.

I think I made the wing a little too strong/heavy on this bird. It weighs 4 ounces on its own.

The engine mount is also a little heavy (I milled it out of solid aluminum bar stock).

Next time I'd use built-up surfaces for the tail and triangular stock rather than square for the fuselage longerons.

I reckon I could shave at least three or four ounces off the airframe next time around, and using the lighter RC gear it'd probably come out at around 16-17 ounces.

But I'll see how this one flies before I start the next :-)

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

the standard beginner plane over here is the "banana" with a 39"x6-1/2" wing and about 23 oz.
flies great with a black widow/product backplate engine and a 6x3 MAS. tall loops from level flight not a problem. the kids even fly these in a fun combat event once in a while. 20+ planes in the air at at time, full contact is the accepted practice even though streamers are used.


dave

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Ya, all things considered, that is the best way to go, instead of MKI, MKII, and so on. The wing can be made with 1/4"by 1/4" for the L.E. and spars, 3/32" ribs, T.E. sheet[bottom only, and 3/32 [or 1/8th" ]ailerons. The wing tips tie it all together, so I cap off the outboard ribs with 3/32 doublers, [or 1/8"]. With no dihedral, no dihedral brace, no shear webbing or sheeting, a typical 36 by 9 wing should weigh 2 ozs or so, and I have yet to fold one of these with an .061. I have "popped" a couple wings like this with a .15, but that was after much fun had been had! The new lightweight park flyer coverings are reportedly the way to go, I like to use $1 per roll colored cellophane, it is weightless. The amount of fun you will have is inversely proportionate to the useless weight you have to carry[1/fun=UW].

2fast4u

My Feedback: (5)

All the above is good info. These little engines LOVE more nitro than your 10%. I run 25/20 in all my Norvels. You will see much better starting, low end smoothness, and top end with 20% or 25% nitro fuel. As for props 5.7x3 all the way up to 6x3 or 6x4 max will do ya just fine. These props are fairly cheap, so get several sizes and fly them. You will be able to tell which is best for your plane, real quickly. Most of all, fly a bunch and have FUN!!!

CrazyHerb

My Feedback: (1)

XJet,
What format can you play?
I just posted a 14 meg .mpg format of the CheapDelta.... it's a little big but...super nice quality....
Here:

http://www.crazyherb.com/CheapDelta/crazyherbmusic.mpg

Smaller goofing off video (5 meg) .mpg
http://www.crazyherb.com/CheapDelta/cheapdeltafun.mpg

Enjoy...
CrazyHerb

XJet

MPEG is great -- and a standard that is available on *all* platforms :-)

I'm downloading now...

XJet

That thing looks mighty touchy out of the launch :-)

Can you fly through the loop in your own shoelaces? No, I better not suggest that, you might just do it :-)

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

xjet,

I have a built-up delta that is powered by a Norvel start'up .061. That's the control line version that comes with the mount that's also the fuel tank. My wing loading is at 6 oz/sq ft. I'll tell you that it flies very well until a slight breeze comes up. At that point if your scratching your butt you might pinch a finger off. This weekend I'm going to add some more lead and see what happens. In my small opinion your wing loading sound about perfect. My delta will fly at 35mph in a straight line and dive to 80mph. I use the master airscrew 6x3 props and the norvel 35% fuel. I also bought a 1/2a starter and it starts on the first hit. I'm very happy with the power and ease of the norvel.