This is a great thread. I'm glad to see and read about everyone having success with this design. I'm glad i hung on to those plans all these years.

gws1, that .020 must be a lot of fun. It looks great.

Mine sprouted legs (I'm going to cant them a bit and add some toe-in to help with tracking). I think it really wants to fly.

Nothing left to do but mount the motor and the servos. I'll probably put one more coat of dope with some retarder added on the tissue areas. It's a bit milky from blushing in this humid weather.

I built the .049 first, then scaled up to a .09, then scale down to the .020. I built them 11 years ago, and the smallest gear I had was 2 Futaba S33 servos, a Futaba 4CH AM receiver and a smallish nicad pack. I used a helicopter .020 backplate and a small plastic bottle for a fuel tank. The engine runs weren't real consistent. I'd like to try a TD .020 on it now. I think if I were to build one again, I would leave out several of the wing ribs, and save some weight there. Lengthen the nose, so I wouldn't have to add nose weight to get balanced.

I may have to try a .010 version with some of the new micro gear.

Greg

RAINEDAV -- Whadat? The term floppy disk hinging is to new me. Could you describe it for me/us?

Thanks!

Sorry I can't remember who I learned it from. Anyway, you just break open an old 3 1/2" floppy disk and cut the black disk material into hinges. They are very flexible and seem to wick thin CA pretty well.

Thanks a lot -- that was what I pictured from what it's called, but I didn't know if that would be it or not.
I'm working on a "new" 1/2A Texaco plane, so maybe that'll be my first chance to try it. I have a bunch of bad floppy disks that I should have thrown away. Now I can be glad I didn't.

Time to resurrect a cool thread...


My first plane was a BeeTween I built with help from my Dad (mostly backseat driving) the summer I moved out here to Michigan. I scaled it up 1/8th and powered it first with a Cipolla .09 that wouldn't draw fuel and deadsticked on the maiden launch, then replaced that with an O.S. 10FP. I nearly made it thru the test flight! I flew 2 or 3 circuits around the field, did some agressive climbing maneuvers, etc. My dad, already a pilot, was taking his time getting back to me from the handlaunch because it looked like I knew what I was doing. Well, he almost got back when I decided to do a loop too low. I froze as it came out of the first loop and finished it out as a "Figure Nine" followed by a one point landing.

The wing, engine and guts all made it out fine. Still have that wing here somewhere..... Hmmm. It was a great intro to RC-I built and crashed 13 airplanes the following year teaching myself to fly[X(]. That short bit of success with the BeeTween was all it took to get me hooked.

Thanks for reviving this, DD. I enjoyed it. It's funny how designers can be recognized in their planes much like guitar players by their sound. The BT looks a lot like the Pong Twos I'm building. It has less structure (only 1 spar on the wing and no diagonals on the horiz stab, etc.) but the overall look is very similar.

Thanks for digging this up. Although it flew great with the GWS direct drive brushed 380, I finally got around to trying it with glow. My goal was to get a reedy quiet enough to fly at the local school diamond. I used a Texaco with a muffler spinning an 8x4. Performance was lousy, but it was quiet.

I'm putting the electric motor back in. This plane is too much fun with throttle. BTW, the GWS brushed 380 spins a 5.7x3 at 16,000 on an 8-cell NiMH! That's about like your typical Sure Start. And it's a $9 motor - just slightly more than a SS.

David

Sounds like you need a Diesel like a PAW55,80 or 100. I don't have the 55 (.30), but I understand it will run a 1/2A prop right along with a Reedy and they don't care about muffler back pressure...

Just now tripped across this thread. I have built three of these with brushless motors. The first was as per plans with a Cox Dragonfly on it. I built this when the plans first came out. It stayed in my attic for a decade waiting for me to learn how to fly. Kept trying to teach my self with various 'trainer planes'. I finally pulled the engine off and sold it at auction, puta cheap brushless motor on it and with the help of an experienced flyer I learned to fly. Just as everyone else has said, it flies great. With a small patch of concrete you can get alot of practice at take-offs and landings. Wore this one out last yaer (including the motor). Over the winter I built two more, planning on another for some kids down the street. A great trainer, and it's a LOW wing! Many thanks to Randy Randolph for a great design. I'll be looking for more of his designs.
I'll attempt to post pictures of one of mine in another post.

Here are some pictures of my Bee-Tween's. I would like to emphasize what someon e said earlier, that the spar should be beefier. I once had a rough landing and the covering was torn on the underside near the root. I sent it back up and did some radical manuvers and the Rt. wing parted company. Luckily the fields were soaked with rain so it only damaged the wing.

Here's a couple a flying buddy and myself built. The blue and white one is powered by the brushed 380 and the red and white one has the Super Cobolt 400, I like a little more power.

Jamie

Randy Randolph attended all of our SMALL events in Little Rock and seemed to always have a BeeTween with him. My good friend Tom Anderson (Old Buzzard) suggested the name to Randy. Get several planes ready and come to the Little Rock SMALL event next June.

Steve Staples

<Tom Anderson (Old Buzzard) suggested the name to Randy>

I was visiting Randy in his shop and he showed me the just completed prototype. He explained that the design and color scheme was intended to hearken back to military primary trainers between the 1st & 2nd wars and asked me what I thought of 'Tweener' as a name. Since it sported a Cox Golden Bee in the snoot I replied that it was obviously a 'Bee-tween'. And so it is.

FWIW Randy considered the series that started with his 'Nickel' as being the best of his designs for trainers. His own Nickel was used as a testbed for engines and wore many different things up front over the years from an eclectic bevy of Cox products to a PAW .03 and an .061 G-Mark/Cannon which he once told me he considered the best throttling small engine he'd ever used.
While the 1/2A Nickel is certainly a worthy candidate when considering a basic trainer (or just a satisfying lazy man's lawnchair flyer) I think the next size in the series, the 'Dime', powered by .09/.10 size engines, is a slightly better choice since the larger size makes maintaining visual orientation easier.
Both are wonderfully pleasing 3 channel sport flyers that do a lot more things well than many other designs purported to be designed for more sporting applications. Any small model fancier who hasn't a Nickel in his fleet is missing one of the finest flying 1/2A designs that ever put air under its wings IMO. And, for informational purposes, overpowering them makes them less pleasing than if built to plan.

Hmmm, wonder if that old retired Nickel hanging in the shop is redeemable?

BTW-while I have your attention Sometime in the '80s I was flying a sailplane with an Kyosho AP-29 for power. I became so impressed with the friendly willingness of the little motor that I pressed Randy to get one and design a model around it. Which he did. In the same garbage bag that contains the Nickel & the Bee-tween is the fuselage from that original prototype that I rescued from the trash barrel in his shop after a crash and I'd like to rebuild it. I have only one problem-I no longer recall the name of the design nor where it was published. So if anyone recalls that model and who published it or has the article and/or plans I would gratefully reimburse the expense of making copies and sending them to me.

One funny story and then I'll quit, -promise! Randy was new to electric motors at the time and asked how he should go about breaking in the AP-29. I told him he could hook up a couple of cheap dry-cells to it and just let it run until the cells were kaput or he could briefly dunk it in a glass of water while it was running with the same results. Perhaps I glossed over some of the details because a few days later he and I, along with some other neer-do-wells, were flying gliders and electrics at the local community college campus a few blocks away from Randys' house when he told me, "I'm breaking in that motor". "Whattaya mean 'I'm breaking it in"? "Well", sez he, "before I left the house I hooked it up and stuck it in a glass of water". Since we'd been flying and BSing for at least a couple of hours by then I figured the poor motor was a goner. We made a dash to his house to find the poor AP-29 till soldiering slowly along in a glass of the blackest water I've ever seen. It was just fine. Tom @ Buzzard Bluff

ECOL, MAN, May 98
I sent you an email with links.

I'd never heard of the other planes in his series! Are plans still available? I was very pleased with his Bee-Tween. Much more so than the "Simple" series that included the Simple Citabria and simple Duster.

If anyone comes across links to order plans or what magazine, year/month they were in, Please post that info!

Thanks!

The Nickle was my first sport plane following training with a glider. Mine turned out tail heavy with Cox .049s, probably because I covered it with monokote instead of tissue. It would make a great plane for anyone with anything from a .049 to .15 to try. The build is simple enough to be done with just basic hand tools.

< I'd never heard of the other planes in his series! Are plans still available? I was very pleased with his Bee-Tween. Much more so than the "Simple" series that included the Simple Citabria and simple Duster. If anyone comes across links to order plans or what magazine, year/month they were in, Please post that info!>

You can find a comprehensive list of Randys' designs and where & when they were published at: <http://www.eskimo.com/~smallnet/Rand...index.html> If you like the tiny 'stuff' then you may want to take a look at his 'One Cent', a reduction of the Nickel for the Cox .010. ($.01) Randy wasn't one to forsake a good flying model and flew (& sold!) several designs based around the 'Nickel'.
I'm a fan of the Simple series by Fred Reese as well and am almost finished with a rehab of my build of his 'Buttercup' which first flew at the early Punkin' Patch SMALL events 16-18 years ago. A few more heat cycles to complete the break-in on the new throttled Pee Wee (originally flew unthrottled) and it should be ready for test flights to see how it does after the weight-loss program.

(Duh! Thanks Hollis. Had I thought of the source above I coulda found the ECOL without help.[])

< The Nickle was my first sport plane following training with a glider. Mine turned out tail heavy with Cox .049s, probably because I covered it with monokote instead of tissue. It would make a great plane for anyone with anything from a .049 to .15 to try. The build is simple enough to be done with just basic hand tools.>

The Nickel simply begs for one of the iron-ons that mimic tissue! Randys' philosophy was largely based on 'the art of the possible' so most of his designs were built with basic materials to a simple design formula known to produce models with good flying characteristics that could be built by novices and very inexpensively as well. He was often panned for the simplistic nature and cookie-cutter appearance of his models but their 'flyability' was very hard to argue. I do however reiterate that his designs fly best as designed. Power in excess of the design goals is not only superflous but detracts from the 'flyability' aspect IMO. Those who subscibe to the theory that "too much is almost enough" will differ.
Those wanting to use a larger engine would be well advised to look to his 'Dime' in the same series. Tom @ Buzzard Bluff

Actually there isn't anything more superfluous than the whole sport of model aviation.

I know what you mean-I have a few favorite designers: Randy Randolph, Al Clark, Roy Clough etc. (Randy being the favorite) and you know right away when you see a plan in a magazine that it belongs to one of them. In my case with the BeeTween being my first airplane, the basic box fueslage airplane with a little Cox cylinder poking out the front is what a Sporting Leisure airplane is supposed to be. We all push extremes in the hobbies, pursuits and interests we try in life and invariably invest enough that that interest is no longer enjoyable or "leisurely". These three designers are an antidote to that in the model airplane hobby-they design simple, low cost, FUN, accessible airplanes that anyone can build and fly. Low emotional debt along with high fun factor in a package that fits in a car seat.

Question for other BeeTween pilots: Low wing rudder only planes typically don't handle wind well, how does the BeeTween do? My first and only flight was on a calm day and was too short to remember any bad characteristics-but I probably wouldn't have known them if I experienced any.

There are a lot to choose from. Here's the Semperfi:

David

Does Butyrate shrink? I thought you had to use Nitate dope first to shrink it, then continue with Butyrate. I love doing dope! I bought about $150 worth of it to do this $13.00 kit, still have a lot left. My next little guy will be a doper.

Rich, about that dope you have, be careful because it does have a limited shelf life. I kept mine out in the garage and after two years it began to crystallize in the can. Had to throw it out. This after paying huge hazardous material shipping on it. Hope you have better luck.
bernie

Both butyrate and nitrate shrink and both can be had in low or non-shrink formulations. Many folks like to use nitrate as an adhesion coat since it tends to stick a little better, but I've covered using only butyrate with good luck. Nitrate is not fuel proof and cannot be applied over butyrate. Butyrate is fuel proof (or at least highly fuel resistant) and may be applied over nitrate after the nitrate has cured.

For lightly built airframes and flying surfaces, you need to be careful about using too much of the high shrink formulas since they can twist a plane into a pretzel. Both dopes will continue to shrink over a long period of time unless classified as low or non-shrink.

Like Bernie noted, shelf life is limited, especially for opened or partially filled cans. You can extend the shelf life a bit by adding a little thinner to an opened can. Store all cans in a cool location and upside down - if the dope skins over, it will be on the bottom of the can.