Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

A couple of ideas were spawned yesterday at Rog’s most recent triumphant coagulation of non-contiguously located Carolina 1/2A Crew members. Among them were. . .

1. Do we need to establish a C 1/2A C auxiliary, honorary membership, groupies, or just allow anyone who loves them small birds like we’uns do - to join by facing South, right hand over heart, and loudly proclaiming, “woo hoo” (or the Rebel yell that apparently nobody really knows what it sounded like – so make up your own). Hey next time let’s give people an opportunity to share their own Rebel yell with everybody when we coagulate for the trophy photo taking? (I’ll practice secretly in the van on the trip over ') .
2. Hows ‘bout we decide on a C 1/2A C one-design! Just ours, nobody else in the semi-civilized world can build one unless they become a member of the crew (I’m already tired of typing the official name of Carolina 1/2A Crew – do I have your collective permission to abbreviate it to CC for the sake of my fingers? Thanks.)
3. So it was mentioned that maybe we could use the universes greatest model airplane forum (conveniently know as RCUNIVERSE) to conduct a survey of what youse-all could agree on (yeah THAT sounds like a challenge don’t it) then ask for the clever people like PT and Bob to submit a design(s) – also to be voted on by the CC group.
Quickly it was noted that we need to keep it a simple as possible and still serve the purpose (otherwise some CCers would get confused and fall over). Examples of questions that came up included. . .
• Pick an engine type, range, specific model (any .049 reedie, any .049 or below, .074 and below, C*X model 327/41, etc.)
• Planform' delta, conventional, anything within span/area specs
• Brian liked built-up designs (he would, he’s such a good builder.)
• Bob suggested anything – just use an ACE foam wing.
The target date for completion (and maybe availability of kits) would be the January BARKS swap meet. This would give even people like me time to finish and (this may be strange to some of us CCers) test fly the models before Rog’s Spring thang.

Brace yourselves, this is just me taling - and remember I'm old and fragile - and please don’t make me give up my CC membership, but can we add a question about if anyone would like to have just one heat of lekky racing? Ziiiinnnng, thunk – arrow to the heart – sinking fast – is it getting dark in here – tell my wife I love her.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, this most excellent idea of Rays was discussed by a few of us at the end of the meet yesterday...I really liked Tim W's design, and I think you can get 1/4 inch balsa lazer cut ok,, but I also like the idea of a built up wing...either design needs to be tough enoughto last more than 3 races twice a year!! So do we all buy shrikes or sig wonders?? lets bump the unlimited race up to .074 ...now do we keep the reedie race or make it any .049 you can get your hands on?...Lets get some ideas goin here....Rog

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Let me chew on this idea while I mow my yard. I'll post more later.

LAter,
Tim

Tim Wiltse-RCU

OK here are my ideas and also some more questions. Are we wanting something as a one design racer? IF so then my idea would be a easy building yet strong model. Really Bob's/Rog's Rivits really looks great in the air and of the two I have seen flying , fly gret as well. I was starting to draw up a Formula 1 GT plyon plane just this past week myself. The square fused SWR's are great but just aren't that pretty. Built up wing like the Rivits. I just don't like foam wings myself. As for engines I say anything goes but limit it to .049/.051. The Norvel .061 really is alot more power than the .049's. It's not that hard to get a Cox reedie to run 20,000+rpm so the field would be equal with builders choice on engines whether a stock Norvel .049 or a modified Cox reedie .049.
Now if we wanted an all around fun plane for spot landings, limbo, all up last down type games then I point at something like the LS150 again. Cheap and easy to build.

Just my ideas.

LAter,
Tim

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Well, everybody knows I love a good reedie. H*ll, I even love the bad ones. But they aren't really reliable starters in a pinch. The shorter run-up time was terrible this year. Last year was one minute, this year thirty seconds. (that wasn't the only change I wasn't warned about) Did anybody get started in time? If we really want to continue the race, it might be time to look at the rules and engines.

As for the one-design, it doesn't have to be a racer does it? Something for the funfly part would be nice, too. Something completely original would pique my interest!

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Off to work we go... but had one more quick idea.

We come up with themes and vote on them.

Then we allow outline submissions and vote on them.

Then someone fills the outline out with a nice plan and kit. Everybody kicks in for the laser cutting and shipping.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Well, once again the great minds within the CC are kicking into gear. Can you hear it? Sounds like one of those old manual egg beaters where the grears are just a little off. At this point I just want to say one or two things. . .

1. I like the idea of any .049/.051 because I can ditch the @#^* reedies for a front intake TD or Norvel. And if you can tach 20k with a reedie then what the hey? But seriously, maybe this will minimize the reedie vs Norvel "discussions" - or make it even worse !

2. I think some of the original wisdom when the subject first came up was to make a brand new design - maybe a little different but not whacked out - that we could truly call our own and last forever (like Herpes) so that generations that carry on after us will point to the _ _ _ _ _ (fill in the blank) and jab each other in the ribs and say, "jeeze what were they thinking?" Kinda brings a tear to your eyes don' it?

3. The name is critical, vital, really really important! It has to be dignified, sensitive - just like most of us (youse others know who you are). And yet reflect our collective sense of humor - like the ever so subtle ways we chide each other when overtaken by bad luck or the slightest error. Hear me brothers; it must be rooted in the gracious traditions of Southern manhood (like Jock Itch, and beer fa*ts). Perhaps this should be a separate poll. Maybe it should be two words the each start with the letter "C"? Just the first thing that pops into my head, oh say, "CC-airplane". Catchy isn't it?

4. Maybe the design can accommodate an all-sheet wing AND built-up version AND even foam - just so the dimensions and planform are the same. Do you think that this would start yet another "this is better'n that" type conflict (goody, goody I hope so).

5. Finally, and this is a deeply personal thing for me and I want youse-all to know that I am reaching deep into my feminine side to retch this up - but where the heck is the photo of me holding my trophy? Oh, there I am holding Sheetface! Woo hoo.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Tim, A: the rivets is not a strong plane!! a good simple plane is not going to be pretty, its a matter of building easy, that we can draw up and get lazer cut (if no one else will admit it my building skills are not great) for ease of building,,,I was this close to building an LS150 myself last week ...at the race, and after I couldnt get my golden bee to start, we found out that both sides of my Rivets wings were cracked so its good that I didnt get it going!...I'm all for a simple fun plane too and its easy and cheap to go ahead and get it on cad and lazer cut even if its only the ribs....I have a shrike put aside, and got remotivated yesterday to go ahead with the build, it may be above my flying skills, but you never get better if you dont take the challenge huh?...plus I just may have an engine for it around somewhere...Rog

SGC

This could be pretty, simple and strong

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

I don't know if I'm officially one of the CC (although I certainly want to be), but I'll throw in my feelings on the subject.

I like the idea of a single, specified planform/wing area/tail moment outline with a minimum weight rule (if the wing area/planform isn't fixed then it could be a minimum wing loading). As RLF suggested it could be built-up, solid sheet or foam, as long as the plane doesn't weigh less than X ozs.

This is how some other competition classes define legal planes and it does two things. It provides leeway for construction preferences (cutting ribs and breathing dope are probably the main reasons why I fly r/c) and still controls or limits a model's performance somewhat. As for engines, I agree that the reedies seemed pretty unreliable yesterday. Planes were getting launched three or four minutes apart. Availablity plays a big part in this, for me anyway. I'd like to see it limited to an engine or engines that are currently available and reasonable affordable (under $60, preferably under $50).

Thank,
David

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

David, you have been officially inducted into the Carolina 1/2A Crew....We try not to follow too many rules here, but it is one reason we would like to all build the same plane to race (or funfly) to we are on the same page..the only engine currently available or in production that is, is the AP .061 for $40 and I think the CS and maybe Brodak has one too... we started this event with reedies but that doesnt mean it cant change and I wouldnt mind trying a TD either though ,,but I think I'd go Norvel first....its a Ford/Chevy thing..anyway Welcome to the crew,,I know you asked about a hat, but I am looking at getting some shirts done, but that will be another post...Rog

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Thank you rog. It's an honor to be in the company of you all. Even with all the crashes yesterday - mine included - I didn't hear a single profanity of sour attitude all day. Just great fun and happy, generous people the entire time I was there.

Again, I'm all for the "one-design" idea with leeway for various construction methods: BobH can use foam, Tim can use sheet, I can cut ribs, etc. A minimum weight would keep the power loading somewhat equal.

It's ironic that Quickie 500 pylon racing was invented by a club named BARKS (Bakersfield, Ca) with a one-design plane. Maybe the CC model could draw on the simplicity of that concept, but still be totally original.

hogflyer

Here's an old racer that was powered by a TD .051. This one has an ACE foam wing, but could have also had a built-up wing. I agree in a standardized design that is easy to build (an it HAS to be rugged to survive the CC! ).

Since Cox and Norvel are basically non-existant, the engine should be one that is readily available, and also reliable. If the AP's are suspect, then something like the TT .07 which is reliable might be a possiblility.

I agree in the planes being evenly matched - same basic design with an option of what the individual builder want to do for the wing building material as long as it's the same span, area, airfoil, etc.

How abiyt a minimum time around the pylons - go any faster and you DQ - there, weight issue solved.

Hogflyer

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It sounds like the crew is looking for a way to get more / better racing for the amount of time spent. Originally I thought the idea was to see who could come up with the best racing machine with the limited power of a reedie. Matched planes will help with uniformity, [naturally], but it won't make sure that everyone shows up with plenty of fresh glow plugs, balanced props that work with the plane, spare prop screws, spinner nuts, clean fuel, fresh fuel lines and tank, charged batteries, etc. The other thing is having 2 identical and completely ready to run set ups, before making a 2 hour drive. The reedies can be made to give dozens of trouble free runs in a row if the items listed above are taken care of, plus building a needle valve stabilizer helps those engines run consistantly.
The same guys who are having trouble getting started with the reedies will tend to be the same ones who have trouble getting going, no matter which format, engine or plane you go with, unless more time is spent ironing out the kinks and being prepared. I don't think there is any single "magic design" that will improve the racing, not yet......the first item to address is getting a reliable power package agreed upon.
If this wasn't the 1/2A forum, and all this conversation was about was cheap and simple racing, then I would go with 1/12th scale [36 inch span ] warbirds and OS LA .15s.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Hey, did youse-all CC's see that? Why I sputter, but, cough, well, wheeze, harumph.

And The best thing I can say about my TT .07 is that the head is a pretty color.

Hey CP, didn't you say something good about those little engines Hobby People sell?

Anybody have experience with the Brodak's? (Do their prices seem a little high - or am I just showing my cheap side again?)

Oh Stewart, I don't know how to say this and please don't be offended but did you get the front and back mixed up? Hey it happens to me all the time. Why just the other day, hello.

Actually, the more I see about the engine non-possibilities (C*X, NOrvel), the more I think just anything in the .049/.051 range might be the best bet and so anyone can use what they already have (potential for zero additional cost for a new engine)- or are able to find.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

CP, you're right about LA .15s and the Magnums too. In the four years our Raleigh-ish group have been flying SSC combat each month I haven't seen as much engine @#$%^& in 50 - 60 bouts with an average of four guys up - as we did in two heat races in one day. Make no mistake, I'm the worst "engine man" in the whole CCrew. But I had less trouble getting my three TD .010s running together than I did with those engines with the "other" type of induction. And yes, I'm sure my lack of preparedness is most of the trouble. An yes, I'm sure that's because I avoid them for the rest of the year. Your comments hit my nose right in the middle.

SGC

"Oh Stewart, I don't know how to say this and please don't be offended but did you get the front and back mixed up?"
Raymond ,
I tripped comeing into the room n got all the bits mixed up.
*mumbles thats my excuse anyway*
Stewart

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

To all!
This race is all about fun first. While I feel I truely had a 3rd place plane in speed maybe even 4th. The guy who won was the most reliable and possibly the slowest. It is not about airframes or motors and never has been as long as I have been around. I vote the reedie race stay the same, run wut ya brung and nothing more.

However I have so much fun that I will suffer the indignity of a a spec racer class if needed, but my observation was it is hard enough to just get the single race off with wide-open rules much less add a bunch of other gotta-do's in there. Also my experience with spec racer classes (full scale cars) is there will always be the people out there taking thier own edge.
Less rules are better, just build, fly, and have fun!

Eight in the field was the best yet FWIW.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Ray, every year it is the same story, besides a lack of preparation on some guys' part, there is always the wind. The .15 sized racers do better in the wind. There is a 1/2A event that is both relatively immune to the wind, and would still allow the REED VALVE PHREAKS to nane a KING of COXLAND and that is straight line speed. Set up a 167 foot long [1/32 mile] speed trap. Just take down wind times, or average out downwind and upwind runs. Give a guy 5 minutes to get in his best pass. After an hour, 8 flyers could easily get clocked, and then maybe have different classes. The poles would already be set at a good distance [167 feet] for pylon racing if a few guys get ready for that, in between speed rounds. The speed event would be less "communistic" than a one design pylon event, which would keep those who like designing their own planes still involved. For a one design pylon event, it would be hard to beat the ACE GLH, either foam or built up version.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

A heat took an average of 10-11 min. including the 3min warning with a 30sec. notice after that. Along with at least 5-10 min notice before anyone had to race. That took all morning to get done and finished including lunch by 1:30.

Don't take this wrong, this is the best two days in my pitiful life as it its with several others but more rules = less fun IMO. A seprate class is cool too, we ran our first unlimited class this weekend, no trophies however but fun to watch nontheless. It only had three or four models to play, and that was with no rules at all short of engine size!

.074-.075 whatever it takes[8D].

av8rsodt

My Feedback: (23)

I am mixed on what to do going forward. As Vic mentioned, we had a ton of fun racing w/ 8 pilots and all sorts of different planes and reedie engines. The reed side of things throws in an interesting twist which was unexpected. From what I saw, once everyone got their engine running the rest worked fine.

I like the idea of using a reedie and creating your own plane, the variety and creativity is what I enjoy.

Maybe we could have 2 type of events in one day, there was definitely plenty of time:
1. Reedie Race (as usual)
2. Fun Fly

Rog used some powder to make a target but no one used it. I think a Fun Fly would be a great event and lots of laughs. Possibly a time flight event, # of loops, # rolls, and spot landing. Maybe even a limbo.

The only thing we would need to do is make sure we set times for the RR and heats along with the Fun-Fly and keep things moving.

Looking forward to the next event...

Brian

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Brian, I agree. The only thing I would add to the RR is a time limit. For start, repairs, etc. If we want to add TDs that is fine by me otherwise we will be reinventing the wheel just when it starts rolling. Somone post some more pics of how good a time it was...Quick

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Brian this being the 3rd year of the "funfly",,the big event is the fall event, last fall was the first reedie race and it also took all day to do...I wasnt payin attention, and it was 11:00 before I knew it..I had planned activities to do,,the flour was spread out for a closest to landing spot..with all the new people meeting and greeting time just flew on by..we roll the dice for number of loops,, all up last down on 4cc of fuel..sometimes a raffle..I think probably next year I will have to ask a $5 landing fee for the club....if the race was a norvel .049 only event, we'd still have people complaining that "my norvel runs like crap" so this is more about opening up the specs and having a common model to work off of...in my case, my Cox golden bee with the Galbreath head and Nelson plug would not stay running long enough for me to throw it...Rog

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

And that is exactly what everyone had, as far as I could tell. I left the field feeling like the day was a total success - and my plane was in four pieces!

The event was a success in the sense that it was intended to be a Fun Fly.

So, I'm kind of changing my postion because to be totally honest I really wouldn't care if the only rule was "anything under .10 displacement," period. I mean, Nelson plugs, 6oz sheet-wing designs, 35%+ nitro, none of that made any difference in the end. The plane that won had a stock Surestart with less than 5 minutes runtime on it and weighed 14.5ozs (actually more counting the 10mm socket nose weight).

Won't we actually have as much, if not more, fun if people bring whatever they come up with, powered by anything up through .09 displacement? I don't know about you all, but for me a lot of the fun was in seeing the diversity of models. We're all pretty creative, original modelers. I'm starting to think it would be a real shame to snub that out with a fixed design.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Bingo, He gets a trophy!

He got the gold yesterday FWIW. and the two guys next to him where happy he did!

Reedie .049 that is the only rule. Let it continue.

I will be happy to play in the spec racer class should it end up the dawg if this continues.

Bob is the owner of the trophys so he is the end all.