novielo

Hi everyone, here's my first creation in everyway... first design, first trainer, first glow flight, first spad, first complete building of a plane.

i made it fly last week (maybe it was just a "slow fall" wreck the fire wall. it was made of coro , i know it was stupid on the last picture you can see the new firewall.

it should be airborne again this week.

here's the specs:

wing span: 24"
wing chord: 7"
lenght of fuse:17"
channels: 3, ailerons, rudder, elevator
engine: stock cox surestart .049
prop: 6x3 (but i will try a 6x4)
weight: (maiden flight was 15oz) now it's 12oz, i changed from 4 AA batt. to 1 9v with voltage regulator (you got a pic of the harness)
wing loading: (maiden was 14 oz/sq ft) now with the 9 volt batt. 11.2 oz/sq ft
cg is 1/4" behind the spar (wich is at 25% of chord)

now the big question... is the wing loading to much for this thing? when i'll be better has a pilot should it fly descently?

also i got a question that i never found an answere on rcu. what is the nominal hp of a un-modified cox surestart? or what should be the rpm it can run with a 6x3 prop? i would like to know this so i could figure out the speed and thrust it could get.

if you got any question about this thing just ask i'll do my best to answere.

thank you

i've started the exact same thread in the spad zone, to see wich one will have more replies.

Schu

My Feedback: (5)

Novielo,
Looks good- you should be able to fly the heck out of that w/o much damage.
What is the balance point- looks like it could be tail heavy- did it fly ok the first time? Maybe that was the issue as they tend to be a bear when the balance point is rearward. Try 25 - 33% back from the leading edge.
I don't know the HP, but you should be getting something like 16,500 to 18,000 rpm w/ the 6 x 3
Don't go to the 6 x 4 - retry the 6 x 3 after making sure you are balanced correctly or try the 5 x 3 for more rpm
!2 oz all up weight should be no problem
Have fun, Dale

novielo

the cg is 25-33% of the LE. maybe it<s the guy behind the sticks the prob???

i'll try it again this week.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

The leading edge is a little sharp and that may cause a "hunting" problem. The sharper it is, the more the airplane looks like it's hunting for the straight line. It would bop up a little, then bip down some... etc. If you experience that, try bending the LE around a dowel to round it off. Other than that, it will probably suck as a trainer, but make a nice little hotrod.

novielo

ptulmer, thanks alot for the advise. i will try as much as i can to make it fly this way. it will be hard to learn but the least i can say is that i have an airplane that can take a beating!!!

but if it doesn't work, or that i'm getting tired of repairing my plane i will do what you said. or maybe just doing another wing with the flute of the coro lenght wise...

a friend just give me an unexpected gift. 2 cox black widow, i think there's 2 tubes on top of the fuel tank. but they are stuck. can i use atf to free them up???

cncswiss1

keep the flutes chordwise, just next time triple score the LE about 1/8-3/16 apart. fold the middle one, glue the wing, then push the middle one in with your thumb creating a crease ont he other two, it will make a nice rounded LE.


.... I have flown many spads with a sharp LE and the hunting problem is little to nil, mostly observed when the tail surfaces are on the low limit on area, and/or the plane is very short coupled..

novielo

cnc, what do you mean by short coupled??

thanks for the score tips, i will do it next time. if the only effect it does is creating less stress to do wing it will be worth it. 'cause when i glued this wing i saw that there is alot of pulling at the TE glue joint. i glue it + staple to be sure it won't snap of when flying or on hard landing.

hogflyer

Short coupled means the tail is close to the wing. That makes it very responsive and sensitive in pitching moments which is great for 3D tumbling aerobatics. The further the tail surfaces are from the wing, generally the more stable the plane will be in regards to pitch and yaw.

Hogflyer

cncswiss1

'zactly!

spads tend to be short coupled sometimes because of their [slight] tailheavy tendancies, the fuses are just made shorter. no big deal if you enlarge the tail group to 20% or so.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Nice job! If you were able to make a coroplast plane come out weighing 12 ozs with that much wing, you did a great job! I'll bet it is a capable flyer. The CC should take note of a plane like this, for their club flyer.

KidEpoxy

Novielo-
I told you these guys would help. Glad to see you got the post over here.

Mr67Stang

I agree, Push the tail feathers back a little so it will be more controllable. The virtical stab is at least 30% more area than you need so tou can make up some weight there. It looks like your very creative so I am sure you can find other ways to lighten it up as well. Your wing loading is great. I have a 1/2a with an AP .061 with 18 oz/sqft loading so yours should definately fly.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

novielo, I think your plane is pretty cool and it looks like it will be a fine flyer once trimmed out and balanced.

How did you hinge the control surfaces. In one of your pics there is a fair gap along the right aileron hinge line. They should be strong but move freely and have as little gap as possible. Also, test those aileron pushrods to make sure they don't flex too much under load. They look like very thin wire from the photo, and you don't want to lose your deflection in a dive.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

If the plane is pitch sensitive, first slide the wing back a little. Also, make sure you don't have more than 1/4" of elevator travel from neutral. It is good to come off the middle or inner hole at the servo arm, and use a control horn at the elevator that pivots 3/4" from the surface of the flap. A 25% CG should be your starting point, just move the wing to get it there. Short coupled planes can be very easy to fly, but they need to be set up right.

novielo

combat pig: "The CC should take note of a plane like this, for their club flyer. "

euh... what's the CC???

i effectively cut down a little bit the rudder to help acheive the correct cg. i want to fly it coupple of time again to see iff it would realy help.


the aileron hinge are made of box tape... one piece covers all the top of the wing and anothere for the underside. there's a bamboo scew 5-6" long lenght wise ('cause the flute are chord wise) to prevent flex.

thank you all for your advise.

has i wrote up does anybody know if i can free up an engine with atf? somebody gave me 2 cox with a tank attached to them. if i could make these work i could use them on this plane. and with it's lenght and weight i think it would be just enaugh to get the cg right.

optech

My Feedback: (9)

Novielo,

Most likely the engines are stuck because the castor oil used in the fuel that was used has gummed up. I suggest using a little heat. Put it in the oven at about 300deg for a couple minutes or so. Not too long because you don't want to damage the plastic fuel tank backplate. Pull it out with gloves and see if it will slowly work free. If not, put it in the oven for another minute. It should eventually start to work free. Once it does then squirt some fuel into the exhaust port and work the engine until it really loosens up. Put some fuel in the tank and let it soak a little. Flip the prop several times every so often. At this point, you can try running the engine but more likely than not, you will have to take the tank apart and clean out the castor goop from around the needle/air port and the reed valve. Especially if there was any fuel left in the engine when it was put away.

Mike

novielo

thank you optech, i just started a thread to identify and cleaning these engines, so it won't make this thread to loaded of to many subject at one place.

BANJOAIRPLANE

CC=Carolina Crew

novielo

if they want (cc, carolina crew) the plan i don't mind to give them the design. it's pretty simple and straight foward tough...

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

A few details like what size (thickness) coro you used, etc. should be enough to get an idea. I've used coro to make a control line airplane and have had recent thoughts about pulling it out and giving it another go. Definitely won't be on fifteen foot lines!

novielo

the coro use is 2 mm all the way, even the spar and the angled part of the spar is done with it. for the rudder i used 2 dowel made of bamboo scew. hot glue them it the ruder. aligned them in the center of the fuse, made a hole and hot glue it under side of the fuse as the elevetor was squeezed between these 2 (but was ca before).

i'll post a scan of the "plan" i used for it, if anybody whant to try it. if you got any other question about the plane feel free to ask.

KidEpoxy

ok, I'll be the one to ask.

What does that sign say about the Garbage?

novielo

epoxy, the plane is made with only 2 signs. one garage sale 18" x 24" and an appartment to rent 12 x 16....

here's the plan... sketch... drawing