I won't give up on the pro-bond, if nothing else, I can use it with my SPAD's, those SPAD guys love that stuff. If you run over the Coroplast with one of those "wood peckers" and punch a million tiny holes in the coro and then use the probond, the foam goes up in the little holes and makes an unbelievably strong bond.

I am really happy with the Super 77, the key is letting it set up for about 5 or 6 minutes before putting it down. It has worked great for me and now that all of the big sheet pieces are on the wing the curves are true and everything is sticking well.

Guys, I love foam wings, I do, and these 1/32 sheeted ones are just so great. The amount of work that it cuts off of building is immence and I really thing that they are as light, if not lighter than the built up ones. These ones that I am working on now came out about half as heavy as the first set I made. A lot of that has to do with the foam itself being lighter, but I think that I haven't gobbed epoxy all over them also has something to do with it.

All I have left is to glue the cap strips, and the wing tip pieces, both of which I am going to use epoxy for, then I'll sand it all up. glues then in the center and be donew with it. I'm not going to put a leading egde on these, it might be a mistake in the long run, but it just looks so good now that I don't want to mess it up.

More pics will follow...



the prole

One more benefit is that you can install retracts much easier in foam wings than you can built up wings.

It seems that sheeted foam wings are just made for hard points and can be a good platform for just about anything you can imagine.

I have a stack of sheeted foam wings that have been the lone surviving component in a crash and a pile of tail sections from the crashed planes that had built up wings.

MR Flyer57

Prole, it sounds like you are continually branching into new areas.

Thats cool.

I did want to let you know what I saw in the Tower Hobbies mailer.

Apparently Goldgerg is making an electric arf called a:

Lightnin' Bug


It has a high wing old-timer look to it.


You choose a great name, but I thought you would want to know.



Randy (Digger) Birt

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have no idea how thoroughly I looked to make sure that there hasn't been a plane called that for at least 20 years, and they are even stealing my schtick.

I should get royalties....

anybody know who to talk to about that, suing Goldberg, I think I got a good case here...

I have been using ProBond for sheeting now for a while, and here is my technique. Most recently, I used it on the Caliente wings, the Caudron, and the new SuperCaliente wings.

Prep the sheeting and cores like you would with any method. Lay out the skins and run a bead of glue down the middle and around the edges. I then use a .010 mylar scraper/spreader to spread the glue around. Make sure that the skins are thoroughly coated with the glue and then scrape all of it off with the scraper. When you have finished, place the skins in the husks with the cores and weight them down overnight and through the next day.

When you pull them from the husks, the wing should be completely glued. It does not seem to hurt to lay the bare wings (minus husks) on a flat surface for another day to allow them to cure fully.

Some other things I picked up along the way-
Whatever you do, don't spray any water on the skins or cores to aid in adhesion. There is enough moisture in the air and the skins as they are to help the glue along. Adding moisture just results in overfoamed glue and recurrent warps... (don't ask me how I know)
If you use thin skins, especially skins made from 1/32" contest balsa, you may want to put waxed paper on the husks before you put the skins and cores in place. This will prevent you from having to cut the husks off the finished wings.. (again, don't ask me how I know...)
Cut your skins oversized and sand the edges back to the core with a razor plane and t-bar sander. Any glue overrun should be easy to sand off.
You can use ProBond if you intend to do skin hinges. It does hold up.

BTW, the Caliente wing is 3/8" thick at the root and sheeted with 1/32" balsa. It was internally reinforced with glass cloth. I used the method above to skin the wings. During the autopsy after the crash, I found that the wing actually only broke in one place that was 12 inches out from the center section on the right wing. The center section was not touched, and the skins are all still fully bonded to the foam throughout.........

One other thought- I just found out that 3m has changed their formulation of 77 spray. The new formulation apparently contains acetone which will melt foam core wings. If you have a can of the good old stuff, use it sparingly. They do have a non-acetone formula available, but I have not heard of anyone using it.

Tim your plane looks great. I look forward to seing the completed product!

Here's a link to the PDf file from 3M on 77 spray adhesive. It appears that it does now contain Acetone.
http://www.3m.com/us/mfg_industrial/...se_7870349.pdf

The good news it that 3M makes another spray adhesive called 78 which is specifically designed for insulation foam, which wings are usually cut from.
http://www.3m.com/reclosables/html/insulation78.jhtml

3M 78 also has an equal or higher peel strength and temperature resistance than 77.
http://www.3m.com/reclosables/pdf/Ae...rodSummary.pdf

I thought the same thing when you named your plane. I was going have a theme where some of my planes were named after bugs. Firefly, Waterbug, Lightning Bug, Dragonfly etc. Of course Dragonfly and Firefly have been used many many times before. I never built a plane that fit the name Lightning Bug. I guess if I do I'll have to name it something else.

I find colour schemes and names the most difficult part of creating a new plane.

You're not kidding on that, I am dreading finishing this plane because then I'm gonna have to cover it

When you had that "Name That Plane Contest" one of my names was the Lightning Bug and I liked it a lot, when the "Lets have a Design Contest" came up I knew that I had to keep it.

M/Aero - thanks so much for the help with the probond. I am making quite a stink about these foam wings lately. It's just that I have a few old kit's that have them and it is important to me that I don't mess 'em up. I got the Simple Mustang to practice and as that was happening this contest started and in getting the special cut foam cores for this I got one of Bipe Flyers Firefly.

Now in addition to not wanting to screw up my original Hobby Shack 1/2a Super Sport Trainer or my real Ace R/C Upstart, I want to do a nice photo essay for the Firefly.

I am really happy with how the wings came out, that "D" tube method works really good. Here is a shot of the top,

and here is the bottom,

I sanded it all after noon, got up to the 400 and put it up. Won't bring it down until I can figure out a covering scheme

Actually There haVE BEEN TO KITS NAMED LIGHTING BUG THE ONE FROM GG AND ONE FROM DIRECT CONNECTION, but why not just name it the lighting buggy, whats an extra b and y, looks great, I should be back on mine but the engine in my old Bsa Lighting went south so Iam putting that as a prioity as soon as I get this F%#$O%^# F/G cowl off my arm!!!

Well guys, it is starting to look like a plane, I got the fuse framed, I sheeted the bottom. Got the elevator done and hinged, epoxied the firewall.

I bet by Monday I'll have a finished plane with a week for test flights, PERFECT

"Well guys, it is starting to look like a plane..."


It sure is; and a pretty darn nice one at that.

Hey Prole,
The thing looks really big.
What elevation are you living at?
The workmanship looks fantastic, I want another contest!!!!
I started out last and tapered off. The weather is really bad here but I will fly mine again to get the video or crash the darn thing.

Can't wait to see the covering

MR Flyer57

This is the kind of plane I envisioned when I suggested the contest, then the competitive spirit got going and I went to the Bobcat. I was thinking of a day maybe 30 years ago when I and two friends with their 1/2a planes where tweaking them, changing props the whole day, very lay-back and nice.

I wish I could make nice miter joints like on this plane. Good job!

Timothy -

Your plane is looking great!

I agree - we definitely need another contest next year. I would also love to see many of the contestants at SMALL following the contest to see the planes fly and meet their creators.

Av8rsodt

Hi Prole,
Tim, I was rereading this post and got to this:


....and here is some stick work to make you proud.


that's 100% pure Titebond, no CA here....

I had to stop to let it all **DRY** before I could take it off and sheet the radio compartment....



i'm no cheater.

I was wondering what Titebond was and where do you get it?
why do you like it better? I like the rest of your ideas and I might like this one also!!

Dickybird got me to the CAD download site with the right information to get a program, man Lots of new stuff to learn.

I use to build levels for doom and duke nukem a lifetime ago and it looks a little like those level builders, but the names of all the stuff has changed.
I will be trying to get another plane up and going, as the Chicken Hawk hit the dirt! The fuse is ok but the wing is hammered. It's on tape, and man it hurts to watch it.

I had radio problems again

It is getting a little tiring, I went down and got another receiver and will use my 9 channel Futaba on the next one.

I want to build a plane for the Dickybird engine, I have been showing it off and it is quite a hit around here!!


MR Flyer57

You might also want to try Weldbond. It is an excellent PVA glue.

Here's their web site.
http://www.franktross.com/

PS
If CA is cheating then I must be really bad. If I need set up time I use thick CA or 5 min epoxy.

Yup, those are my two favorite Glues, Titebond is just like Elmers Wood Glue except for one very tiny, but vastly important difference-the cap on the titebond doesn't come off, so there is nothing to lose

I have tried them both and they both set up in the same time, they both bond wood great but I think there is a huge difference in the way they sand. For some reason the Titebond sands so much easier and cleaner then the elmers.

Weldbond is the best non epoxy/CA glue on the market, im my opinion. It is great for bonding just about anything to just about anything, it is safe on all materials, it sands well, cleans up easy when wet and dries hard as hell.

I do actually use a good bit of Slow and Medium ZAP, even the thin stuff has it's purpose, and epoxy, good god what would RC be without epoxy?I'm obsessive compulsive and a bitter perfectionist so with CA, if I don't have the time to get it just right, it makes me mad as H#$L. I would like to try some of that Sheet ZAP, it's slower and thiker then the Slow ZAP, that seems a little better.There is just not much worse than having to look at that crooked wing rib or fuse former forever cause you put it down crooked and couldn't do anything about it.

But, there is something that is just right about wood glue and balsa sticks. You just can't sand the CA to be like that, and it stains the wood and is a total pain to get off your fingers, especially when there is something like a rib or fuse stuck to it too.

Both Titebond and Weldbond are hardware store glues, but can probably be gotten at most hobby shops too...


the glue-happy prole

Hello Glue happy Prole,


Great post,
I will try both of them as soon as I can find them, and if I can't get them here I will order.

You forgot the most important part, and that is if you use CA glue you will forever be able to identify your airplanes, due to the finger print that is left when you tear the top layer of skin away and leave it glued to some part of the plane.

Yes,,,, How many out there have felt the heat of setting CA and knew that the little part that you are holding may not be glued to the plane but it sure is glued to you!!

I think someone should name that particular scream, the one that is used in that split second realization that your trapped and will have to gnaw off your finger tip to escape.

Or maybe a name for the moan, of those who are a little tougher and have a callous for a buffer, but will have to cut off their last layer of cushion.

My debonder is a joke, I think it is light salad oil. It should include pain killer, at least that would be useful!!


Just rambling, and thank for the great info,

The CAD student,
MR Flyer57