Picco P-zero 0.8cc
05-23-2009, 01:08 PM
#76
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Newport News, VA VA
Posts: 246
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
AndyW,
I have looked for both the Norvel muffler and the CS throttle and not having any luck. It looks like I will have to try to make my own. I do have a small metal working hobby shop in my back yard so I am not too handy capped. I'll let you know how it turns out, and thanks.
I have looked for both the Norvel muffler and the CS throttle and not having any luck. It looks like I will have to try to make my own. I do have a small metal working hobby shop in my back yard so I am not too handy capped. I'll let you know how it turns out, and thanks.
Gene
05-24-2009, 10:05 AM
#79
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
Cool. It should make some difference. Who made that pipe adapter for the VA? I was going to make a couple for mine, and I was going to try milling one for the Pzero.
I went to a manufacturing show recently with a Norvel Revlite piston set. I talked to several coating suppliers and they were not sure what the coating on the piston was. Obviously nickel, maybe chrome on that.
I went to a manufacturing show recently with a Norvel Revlite piston set. I talked to several coating suppliers and they were not sure what the coating on the piston was. Obviously nickel, maybe chrome on that.
05-24-2009, 10:08 AM
#80
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Posts: 8,658
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
I know someone who has a mold for a carbon/epoxy clone of the APC 4.7x4.7, but I think that is too much load for the Picco though. I'm going to try one on my Profi .061, but even might be too much for that - it likes to spin minimum 30k. I'd like to pipe that thing.. [:-]
I have two VA mkI's - I like the mods you did.
Mike D.
I have two VA mkI's - I like the mods you did.
Mike D.
05-24-2009, 11:15 AM
#81
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
Mike, Have you run your Profi 1cc? Want to hear all about it?
Greg, The header for the VA, A local buddy that wanted to repay a favor made it up. Don't think I can get him to make any more - he was pissing and moaning how much time he put in that silly little russian engine - until he saw it fly.....then he just smiled...still don't think he will make any more.
You make some - I'll take two
Greg, The header for the VA, A local buddy that wanted to repay a favor made it up. Don't think I can get him to make any more - he was pissing and moaning how much time he put in that silly little russian engine - until he saw it fly.....then he just smiled...still don't think he will make any more.
You make some - I'll take two
05-24-2009, 11:53 AM
#82
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Dorr, MI
Posts: 1,457
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
There's no reason an engine in the 1/2A range shouldn't be able to swing a 6" prop...and at a good clip too. Reedies do it all the time, and my Wasp will spin a Graupner 6x3 at close to 19K. Granted, for speed you want smaller and much faster...but stil.
05-24-2009, 02:10 PM
#83
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
Evgeny,
Many thanks for your input. If I understand you correctly, ball bearings may NOT work well at the speeds we may be pushing these engines. Ball skidding can be an issue and that may depend on lubrication, to a degree. Here,http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=ws you can get most of the bearings we might use in our small engines for .99 cents each. I'm in the process of making up an order for a selection of sizes. Adding ball bearings to the Picco/Brodak hybrid may illustrate, at least in this case, whether ball bearings are of any advantage. And here, http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.as...551&n=MR117-UUBoca lists this bearing as good for 50K with oil lube so at least this bearing should be OK for our application.
You make some good points about ABC versus ABN. Nickle plating can be done without electricity, far cheaper and it plates evenly, all over. Chrome needs an electric process and plates unevenly requiring final finishing and will be expensive to do. But nickel can be made to work as well although may not last as long under the most severe applications. I have a large selection of Norvel, nickle plated pistons that have no matching cylinders. I've discovered that 6061, anodized home style, seems to be as durable as theNorvel process without being so abrasive. Also, 6061 has a greater expansion rate under heat than brass so that may be put to advantage. As in a very tight interference fit that frees up more than brass would for those applications where adequate cooling isn't possible.
Still, making up a light crankcase that takes small bearings shouldn't be any more expensive. Bulk buying of bearings should help. And with nickle plating and anodizing, why not?
Rob,
Need for speed,, I can relate. But when I stick an 8 x 4 onto a stock Norvel .06 on diesel and get 11K, we're talking about a whole different kind of model. A Spitfire, scale electric, converted to glow would work and sound so much better. But if I ventured to make an ME 163, http://www.metacafe.com/watch/114928..._rocket_plane/35K on a 4 x 4 would certainly be more appropriate. Don't you haveone in the works?I recall a foamy for sale once. Should have picked one up. This must be the one. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1084919/rc_me163c_komet/Pretty wimpy with a pusher electric.. It really needs a real engine.
And of course, not all 6 X 3s are created equal. I've collected all the brands I have, from APC to Cox some six in all and will do some Tach readings. But that's not the whole story. At the same time, all the props will be flown on the same afternoon on the same fuel and plug. The latter part is purely subjective. Still, on my Low Stik, the ABN version of the Brodak does 18K on a Cox 6 x 3 black, and it will climb out from a hover. Any prop that won't do that will be downgraded. But that will have to wait for warmer, calmer weather.
But thanks for the pics on the mods. Along with bearings, I'm going to try to duplicate what you've shown. Plus an idea or two of my own.
I didn't think that the MK1 could take being pushed that hard. It's AAN and what of that dinky little crank? That has got to be the best power to ratio yet. On the header. Is the offset to accommodate bolt spacing or is it to raise the pipe to clear the fuse?
About reedies. What if you used the back end of a Cox reedie, (for the reed assembly) and built a case to take modern bits, like Revlite or ABC?
No shortage of stuff to try in our world. Feel sorry for the other guys.
Many thanks for your input. If I understand you correctly, ball bearings may NOT work well at the speeds we may be pushing these engines. Ball skidding can be an issue and that may depend on lubrication, to a degree. Here,http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.aspx?p=ws you can get most of the bearings we might use in our small engines for .99 cents each. I'm in the process of making up an order for a selection of sizes. Adding ball bearings to the Picco/Brodak hybrid may illustrate, at least in this case, whether ball bearings are of any advantage. And here, http://www.bocabearings.com/main1.as...551&n=MR117-UUBoca lists this bearing as good for 50K with oil lube so at least this bearing should be OK for our application.
You make some good points about ABC versus ABN. Nickle plating can be done without electricity, far cheaper and it plates evenly, all over. Chrome needs an electric process and plates unevenly requiring final finishing and will be expensive to do. But nickel can be made to work as well although may not last as long under the most severe applications. I have a large selection of Norvel, nickle plated pistons that have no matching cylinders. I've discovered that 6061, anodized home style, seems to be as durable as theNorvel process without being so abrasive. Also, 6061 has a greater expansion rate under heat than brass so that may be put to advantage. As in a very tight interference fit that frees up more than brass would for those applications where adequate cooling isn't possible.
Still, making up a light crankcase that takes small bearings shouldn't be any more expensive. Bulk buying of bearings should help. And with nickle plating and anodizing, why not?
Rob,
Need for speed,, I can relate. But when I stick an 8 x 4 onto a stock Norvel .06 on diesel and get 11K, we're talking about a whole different kind of model. A Spitfire, scale electric, converted to glow would work and sound so much better. But if I ventured to make an ME 163, http://www.metacafe.com/watch/114928..._rocket_plane/35K on a 4 x 4 would certainly be more appropriate. Don't you haveone in the works?I recall a foamy for sale once. Should have picked one up. This must be the one. http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1084919/rc_me163c_komet/Pretty wimpy with a pusher electric.. It really needs a real engine.
And of course, not all 6 X 3s are created equal. I've collected all the brands I have, from APC to Cox some six in all and will do some Tach readings. But that's not the whole story. At the same time, all the props will be flown on the same afternoon on the same fuel and plug. The latter part is purely subjective. Still, on my Low Stik, the ABN version of the Brodak does 18K on a Cox 6 x 3 black, and it will climb out from a hover. Any prop that won't do that will be downgraded. But that will have to wait for warmer, calmer weather.
But thanks for the pics on the mods. Along with bearings, I'm going to try to duplicate what you've shown. Plus an idea or two of my own.
I didn't think that the MK1 could take being pushed that hard. It's AAN and what of that dinky little crank? That has got to be the best power to ratio yet. On the header. Is the offset to accommodate bolt spacing or is it to raise the pipe to clear the fuse?
About reedies. What if you used the back end of a Cox reedie, (for the reed assembly) and built a case to take modern bits, like Revlite or ABC?
No shortage of stuff to try in our world. Feel sorry for the other guys.
05-24-2009, 02:59 PM
#85
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
Bocca doesn't have 7mm ID brgs for .99 cents but these car guys do at a dollar each. http://www.avidrc.com/shop/?action=category&id=1That makes it cheap to do up all the Picco hybrids I want. Neat.
05-24-2009, 05:57 PM
#87
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
Wow guys.I turned on the computer this morning, and I have to say this is the stuff to wake up to. I like the cylinder mods Rob, and the heder/ pipe.
2k up from those mods is good news.
i look forward to hearing about the profi.
Stefan
2k up from those mods is good news.
i look forward to hearing about the profi.
Stefan
05-24-2009, 09:21 PM
#89
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Orangeville, ON, CANADA
Posts: 8,658
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
ORIGINAL: RocketRob
Mike, Have you run your Profi 1cc? Want to hear all about it?
Mike, Have you run your Profi 1cc? Want to hear all about it?
Mike D.
05-24-2009, 09:55 PM
#90
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
I got the front end parts from Mecoa. But they made them pretty rugged. The front end, prop, drive washer and the tapered collar from early Norvels, the Wasp and MP Jets will fit. The problem is making the spinner nut that has to extend into the bored out prop to engage the short, threaded stub. Just a matter of doing one up on the lathe and getting the correct tap. I modified the bits from the MP Jets engine, the face of the drive hub is larger than usual and I like that. More grip and support of the prop. Keeps it running true at 52K. 
No, actually, I'm kidding. I like larger diameter prop support for large, diesel props.
No, actually, I'm kidding. I like larger diameter prop support for large, diesel props.
05-24-2009, 11:28 PM
#92
Senior Member
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
ORIGINAL: MJD
I know someone who has a mold for a carbon/epoxy clone of the APC 4.7x4.7, but I think that is too much load for the Picco though. I'm going to try one on my Profi .061, but even might be too much for that - it likes to spin minimum 30k. I'd like to pipe that thing.. [:-]
I have two VA mkI's - I like the mods you did.
Mike D.
I know someone who has a mold for a carbon/epoxy clone of the APC 4.7x4.7, but I think that is too much load for the Picco though. I'm going to try one on my Profi .061, but even might be too much for that - it likes to spin minimum 30k. I'd like to pipe that thing.. [:-]
I have two VA mkI's - I like the mods you did.
Mike D.
05-24-2009, 11:57 PM
#93
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
RR, It seems like APC always has a very good reason for each and every size prop that they make. I think there is field tested demand for all of their props. The 4.75x4 sure loads a TD .049 to the max, but a local racer with a Taperwing turns in very competitive times with one. I think the highly timed engines do well to turn a 4.2x4 and it is up to us to provide a clean and light plane to make it work.
If you want to gamble $3.95 to see if this engine can make good use of this stick, no one will stop you
.
I'm very surprised that this engine is as "usable" as it is for an airplane engine. Lowering the liner is a good thing to try if the passages aren't too hogged out for lower rpms.
If you want to gamble $3.95 to see if this engine can make good use of this stick, no one will stop you
.I'm very surprised that this engine is as "usable" as it is for an airplane engine. Lowering the liner is a good thing to try if the passages aren't too hogged out for lower rpms.
05-25-2009, 11:13 PM
#97
Senior Member
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
ORIGINAL: RocketRob
the 4.75x4 combat special was not worth the balancing exercise at 23k
back to the 4.2x4 or DD's 4.1x4.1
While it was on I twiddled the knobs and got the idle and transition quite improved - to a servicable throttle
the 4.75x4 combat special was not worth the balancing exercise at 23k
back to the 4.2x4 or DD's 4.1x4.1
While it was on I twiddled the knobs and got the idle and transition quite improved - to a servicable throttle
05-26-2009, 12:32 PM
#99
Senior Member
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
ORIGINAL: AndyW
I've used eprops on diesel but will they take the combustion pulses of glow? At 30K?
I've used eprops on diesel but will they take the combustion pulses of glow? At 30K?
05-26-2009, 01:19 PM
#100
My Feedback: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Timmins, ON, CANADA
Posts: 2,912
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
RE: Picco P-zero 0.8cc
That's good to hear Dave. While not all E props have enough meat near the hub for IC power, some look OK as long as you don't spin them too fast. But if you're doing those numbers, I suspect that most props are built with a 4 to 1 safety factor. In any event, I still think that for diesel, standard props are too much because most props are designed to spin at glow speeds. Come to think of it, so are many EProps. I'm inclined to think that the punch of the combustion event with IC power does far more to load props than we might imagine.
This one, http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/608438.aspwon't do, but this onehttp://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/608452.asp looks good as far as hub strength goes, on diesel power with a 1/2Aengine. I've got all of these and just as soon as some dust settles, I need to rig up a foamy Spitfire to take a Norvel .06 diesel spinning big diameters.
This is far removed from the original premise of this thread but illustrates just how versatile our little engines can be.
This one, http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/608438.aspwon't do, but this onehttp://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/608452.asp looks good as far as hub strength goes, on diesel power with a 1/2Aengine. I've got all of these and just as soon as some dust settles, I need to rig up a foamy Spitfire to take a Norvel .06 diesel spinning big diameters.
This is far removed from the original premise of this thread but illustrates just how versatile our little engines can be.