new model started
 

I decided to roll the dice and commit some lumber to this thing I drew up over the last few days. I'm picking the lightest balsa in my stash. I'm going to make this one come out under 10ozs even if I have to carve the engine from balsa.[X(]

One wing half done.

RE: new model started
 

I take it your going to skip the sheer web for sake of weight? Well I like mine with throttle so I aim for an .061. Hmm picture a bulbus nose on that plan of yours... he he he:D

RE: new model started
 

Thanks, Mr67Stang. Usually I sort of work out design features as I go. I see things in a built structure than don't strike me on paper. Adding shear webs half-way out is a good idea.

skaliwag, what do you think of this? I like the sub-fin better than the blue line, myself.

Remember, this is still a work in progress so I'm all for incorporating improvements that anyone thinks of.

Thanks, David

RE: new model started
 

Looks good, RD! Nice shape, but simple to execute. I could see trying to build that plane with folded depron, too.

RE: new model started
 

Hi David --

I like the blue line -- and would extend it out to the TE at the bottom of the rudder leaving the rudder squared off. The plane is angular throughout, so I think I would retain that in the rudder outline too.

This is the fun part of the hobby -- you can take someone's plans, maintain the essence of the design and add the esthetics of your own. Are these plans going to be available? (I hope!!)

What are the basic dimensions and what airfoil are you using?

RE: new model started
 

Hi Dave,

Sub fin/rudders take a lot of abuse on landings. I kind of like to continue the bottom fuse angle all the way through to the f/R. They seem to last longer that way. Have you considered a shoulder wing? I think this plane would sure look nice in that configuration. How about cutting the fin and fuse end as one piece? You could just glue that to the pinched together fuse ends.

Nice looking plane though, please keep the updates coming.

Darren

RE: new model started
 

Dave,

I've had too much experience tearing off/damaging stabs on my gear-less models. Even when its mounted on top of the fuselage it doesn't take much of a cross wind - or for less skilled pilots than I - to make contact with one wing low (a maneuver named after the famous Oriental aerobatisyst Won Wing Lo) and snagging the stab causing a dramatic halt to forward progress. Wings just aren't as vulnerable as those thin sheets of tail feather.

So, I always put a ply skid back there to raise the aft end as much as my design asthetics will allow. FWIW I always drill a hole towards the back of the skid just in case I want to tie a streamer on.

Are you gonna finish it with tissue and dope?

RE: new model started
 

Thanks, everyone, for all the input. What we've got the makings of here is the potential for a group project!

Every time you read a construction article the author tells you to "kit" the plane (cut out all the parts first) before starting. I rarely ever do that. Because, there's usually some little mod I end up wanting to make along the way.

So, the only thing that's been cut so far are the ribs for the other wing panel. That means I could still put the wing saddle on the top, or, completely re-design the tail.

skaliwag suggested the sub fin. He didn't say why, but I assume since he didn't see dihedral on my plans in conjunction with the tall vertical stab, he was thinking adverse roll (the plans do show a rudder, afterall). That's what proof readers are for! It will have dihedral and I doubt I'll have rudder, just aileron and elevator. Still, it's probably a good idea to chop off some of the fin and add some area down low. I originally had the fuse running straight back to the tail, but when I changed it that "ding" went off in my head, so I stop making changes.

Raymond makes a wise and practical point about how 1/2A planes see clumps of grass the same way a .60-size plane sees a corn stalk (the French called that Existential Phenomenology). So, the ground is a relative thing, assuming our planes have a consciousness (don't they?). The subfin can be liteply and I can cancel out any weight by cutting holes in the elevator and rudder sheets.

Thank again. More updates to come.

RE: new model started
 

The sub fin idea was part the dihedral and part not liking the Reflex Jog at F3.
I like the "Pinch together" method also.

Sorry the pic shouts at you... I don't know how to make it smaller on this computer.

RE: new model started
 

skaliwag, that's the way I'll go. The one-piece, rear post extending all the way down will add a bit of strength over a seperate fin, too. Thanks.

RE: new model started
 

A bit more tinkering.

RE: new model started
 

Now that you have straightened the bottom line the round sub fin looks odd. Doesn't go with you "Hots" - "Stealth" -- Angular look.
I like the general shape though.

RE: new model started
 

I don't mind mixing curves and straight lines, but that subfin is sort of an aesthetic anomaly. Problem is I like it. One solution is to make the area a bit smaller and more angular and round the rest of the fin.

RE: new model started
 

I'm with you on that point, SKALIWAG. Identify a theme and stay with it. For example, a tapered wing and rectangular stab don't mix, round wingtips and blunt stab ends, etc. What I see in RDs' plane is what you see, an angular HOTS/STEALTH collection of shapes. Remember what we as kids thought about a street rod with mixed "mags" [:'(]?

RE: new model started
 

It's starting to come to me that it's the straight, angular forms that bother me. I don't like them. Too '80s or something.

They were driven by an attempt to ease construction with other builders in mind (here comes Sartre, again). That's all getting thrown out.

I'm going back with the concept I originally had in mind before I tried to cut the parts count.

RE: new model started
 

As long as you used the same kind of wheels on the same side of the car, no one else seemed to notice...

RE: new model started
 

:D Do the "GREASERs" still cruise Walnut Creek?

RE: new model started
 

But wasn't there always some kid in high school who could only afford one Keystone at a time? By the time he graduated all four finally matched?

RE: new model started
 

When the back end is lit up, there is no way to see what wheels on are on the back end anyway.....:D:D:D

CP - I had to run mag pies on my Challenger and Rallye's on the front after somebody stole my 15" Rallye's [>:]:((orginally from a Hemi car). It took quite a while to find another decent set of 15 Rallye's, so I rode around like that for some time.

Hogflyer

RE: new model started
 

I don't remember what old timer plan I first saw this on, but I use the trailing edge stock method for joining wing halves with dihedral. The piece of TE stock I used gave 1" of dihedral under each tip; just what I was after.

It's a lot easier than trying to glue ribs in at an angle, or trying to sand a bevel on the root.

RE: new model started
 

Dave-
What tool did you use to cut the root out of the TE stock? Telekinesis?
I dont see any burns, so was it a coping saw or are you just that good with a #11?

RE: new model started
 

"What tool did you use to cut the root out of the TE stock? Telekinesis? "

I agree looks like the TE stock was poured into a mold! Nice work!

I may have figure out how it was done. First draw the outline of the root rib onto the TE stock ten cut it out of the stock and place between the 2 roots when done?

Robert

RE: new model started
 

I have a cat with Gamma Ray eyes. I just move her head over the balsa. It works better than laser cutting. (I have a Craftsman scroll saw)

RE: new model started
 

Wow, I see what you mean about that cat.
It completely vaporized the Fin & Rudder off thet plane!

RE: new model started
 

build light, exactly. I just held the root of the wing onto the TE stock, drew around it and cut it out. I glued the piece onto one wing half, sanded the TE stock flush with the wing and glued the other wing onto it. It's really hard to get the halves crooked that way.

I get bored doing things the same way, so for the last couple of planes I've started glueing the TE stock on before installing the torque rods. This way I can get the TE a lot straighter (I always seem to get it crooked when I cut the trough first and then glue it over top of the torque rods). It's not any more work to then cut a groove, drop in the rods and plug the groove with a strip of wood. In fact I get less play in the linkage. It works for me.