Points taken. PLEASE PLEASE if you can teach me how to do a rolling figure M or simple stall turn for that matter on a flying rate rudder with any plane I will be at your place tommorow. I have been flipping to a high rate rudder for any stall turns for 35 years so to me it was just the same. I am not sure but I think the 10 CAP has flight conditions. If it does its a very nice option to use instead of dual rates. This way you can simply flip one switch (Snap Condition) and in that condition have the rudders through together. If not then I agree 100% dual rates are not the way to go. Please if I have confused anybody about this I am sorry. It is nesasary to use a flight condition not dual rates. I was not trying to discredit anyone, just trying to explain the pros and cons

Chip