Dick, in a way I agree with you both. As you know, I have on occasion been known to express my feelings here on the RCU pattern forum. There have been times when I felt some degree of satisfaction and other times regret. I mentioned this in another thread somewhere around here under the label of "greasing your buddy up"! If we are honest with ourselves, we all have seen this happen at one time or another. It's subtle but it usually happens on turnaround manuevers that violate the aerobatic box and result in the flyer being awarded undeserved points. On occasion I have contacted several CD's in advance to try to find out if they are aware and if they are willing to enforce the rules to try to stop or at least curtail these dishonest practices. The best example I can think of happened to a very talented F3A flyer by the name of Cameron Smith. Again it was subtle but over a period of several seasons it took it's toll and Cameron quit competing and sold all of his planes and equipment. What a shame and disgrace! I ask you is this fair or right? I can only answer this for myself. Tuan has a legitimate point and his complaint should be taken at face value. If not, then we all can expect pattern activites, as we know it, to only decline in the future. I agree, Tuan would probably be better served to voice his concerns/complaint in person but sometimes you've got to do what's best for you. If I suspect this is happening to me, Tuan should do as I do and ask for a refund and make a mental note to never attend that contest again! Gentlemen, don't ignore Tuan's complaint. There are consequences. Just my thoughts____Everette