Scott, I sincerely hope you continue to feel the same way in the course of your pattern career over the coming years. Unfortunately, my feelings have not been so positve over the last 5 years of the approx 22 years of flying pattern. At times I thought it might be me suffering burn-out and so I would take a break from the contests only to find that it wasn't me but it was the bias that continues to exist here in D3. I find it interesting that most of the pattern flyers here in D3 have probably read my responses in this thread and have elected to NOT respond. That in and of itself speaks volumes! Perhaps silence is consent or agreement. Vince, my perspective comes from actually standing in back of some of these flyers and between the judges to get an accurate picture of their turnaround maneuvers, not from the pits. Also Vince, I hope to fly with you in Sept of this year at Steve's next contest. Looking forward to it___Everette