Ok Foxy, your really confusing me now! But seriously I can't stand when someone posts a thread like I did and ask for advice, only to completely ignore it and do what they were going to anyway. I wasn't crazy about the Associated you recommended but the Hyper 7 seemed like a better fit for what I want it for. My only issue was, is it as tough as the D8s. I know everyone has said it's very strong so I feel like it has earned a good reputation, this thread is not the first time I've heard people talk about it. Honestly I would have never wandered into this investigation if the D8s didn't look a little lacking in the engine dept. Unfortunately I've never seen one run, only videos. I'm not too concerned about not seeing one in person since its almost an exact copy of my friends Vorza which I've seen in person and think it is very hard to break. I do understand that most buggies run .21 engines but I think in this case the D8s seems much heavier than the completion. This doesn't bother me since I won't be racing, I just don't want it to be underpowered. Just looking at them, to me the D8s appears to be a heavier duty setup which is at led me to it. But the recommendations of the Hyper 7 have also sparked an interest especially with its bigger power plant and proven reliability. Thanks again for your continued interest in helping me make a decision.