All of this discussion concerning use of the rudder is well and good but I just gotta say..............absolutely all of my model aircraft bank/turn just fine with no rudder input whatsoever. 4*60, SIG King Kobras, ESM Bearcat, Hobbistar 60. And the Great Planes Siren Hotliner doesn't even have a rudder and banks/turns fantastically well. If I were to use rudder along with aileron to bank my 4*60, the plane would land, roll over to me, grab me by the throat and say: "RUDDER with aileron to bank?!? What the heck do you think you're doing?!?".