As previously stated, when I have a worthy airplane flying I will give it a try. There is always room for improvement and if it works better for me I will be sure to let you know. The blokes in the chairs would be another whole can of worms. I have seen judging differ from region to region so I can't say what it would be like in another country. IMO the judges here in the US may feel they have more liberties in the definitions. Snap rolls seem to be the devil in disguise. I have been downgraded for not holding pitch deviation long enough at an IMAC contest and initially told by a pattern judge that I didn't stall the airplane at the top of an avalanche. My reply to that one was " Duh, these airplanes don't stall during a snap". We got the CD involved in that one and in the end I was told that Andrew Jeskey had just won the words so guys are looking for faster snaps " Like Andrew does them ". The judge also had admitted that he had noticed my snaps in a previous round that he was not judging and made a mental note that they should have been zeroed so he took that mindset to the chair with him. Like I said, can't get away from the human factor. Looks like this one is finally winding down, I hope some beginners were able to learn from our at times dribble. In the end it's all about having fun and hanging out with guys that have the same love for model airplanes.