Oh , and before ya go gettin all "you guys all HATE 3D" on us here , Let me be the first to tell ya that I love ALL types of RC model aviation ! It's just that I can see the practical physics behind why some RC activities just aren't safely compatable with others , and 3D + Turbines in the same field are the prefect example of two great things that just don't go great together .... Kinda like windsurfing while trolling for sharks .......