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Old 07-13-2018 | 07:23 AM
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Imex-Erik's Avatar
Imex-Erik
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 3,216
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From: Brooksville , FL
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Originally Posted by Brycevr
I am roughing out a chapter on Radio protocols and modifying to use a standard Hobby grade transmitter.
Do you think I should begin a different thread for each of these subjects?
I think the battery segment may elicit questions that deserve a thread all by themselves.
The radio solutions can be very intricate but I'm going to try and address the essential "tank centric" issues and demonstrate some advantages of using a 6-8ch radio and I'm hoping to get my hands on a FS-6 and modify it with centring on the throttle for tank specific use.
This radio seems to be born for for this hobby.
I will probably try to work with OpenPanzer on this as I see an integrated Hi-End option pack based on the OP and this radio.
I've also been playing with a
iRangeX IRX4 Plus 2.4G 4 IN 1 Multiprotocol STM32 TX Module
This allows my radio to emulate 90% of the 2.4Ghz protocols out there so I can control almost any device from one radio.
I'm going to play with this a bit and enlist the help of many other forums and their specialist users to summarise this here.
I will say that the RC5HL is the best tool I’ve ever seen to make the hobby attainable.


There is no setup change needed to move to a 2s LiPo solution except mounting the batteries and a connector. The voltages are close enough to be of no consequence. You can include a low voltage cut off if you think you may need one, personally when it gets slower I come home and change the battery.
I agree with the need to be diligent and aware but as you stated, the accident you mentioned was the result of misuse and probably ignorance by the tech.
I have used the procedure you mentioned to recover cells but being aware of the issues, used a specific area and monitored the procedure. It works sometimes. Don't tell me you haven't seen an NiMh pack explode due to unsupervised charging or failed equipment, the results can be just as catastrophic. Nearly every issue I’ve seen has been high energy packs being pushed to the limit or abused in competition environments. Or just idiots. As soon as you make something idiot proof we seem to generate a new level of idiots. I intend to minimise these issues by education. I cannot protect someone from themselves.
In scale armour the battery is not a critical component, it just provides motive power in a very steady and controlled way.
This is why I went the 18650 route, simple, stable, cheap, neat and reliable. Just what’s required so you can get on with countering those cunning Basset Hound tactics.
I won't agree that they are any more temperamental than NiCd/NiMhs just different. Back in the day there were all sorts of rituals to optimise packs that make the LiPo procedures seem simple. (That makes me feel SO old ) Whilst you also don't have to worry about the self discharge either. You can run a LiPo down to 2.8V/cell with little chance of damage actually. Most use 3.3v or so for a safety margin. There are a lot of protection circuits available for about a dollar that cure this easily.
I have an idea for a Low voltage alarm led that can be fitted anywhere on the hull that would give a visual sign without compromising the scale look very much, just the nub of a 3mm led poking out of the hull wherever is practicable.
My Radio rant will address Telemetry and FPV as well as multi-protocol systems, modifying for ground system specific handsets, and updated firmware that continues the idea of the original “TANKERx”, a good idea but a bit overcomplicated for most users at the time.
As for the heat issue I haven’t found that to be the case. Both chemistries are adversely affected by extremes in temperature but LiPos have developed to the point where I would consider them to be the more stable option.
I live in Australia where summers are regularly 100F and winters down to 20F daytime. (40C and -4C)
I use a bank of LiFePo4 (Lithium iron phosphate) cells as the battery in my motorcycle. These are more stable and are the weapon of choice in serious solar and wind generator systems. They are of a slightly lower nominal voltage than LiPos (3.3v/cell) but have a similar energy density. They lend themselves most perfectly to the “deep cycle” type of environments.
The fact remains that Lithium Chemistry is here and is the default storage in tens of millions of electronic devices and, as you will see in some future articles, all of these issues are easily addressed and that, by and large, a LiPo is a simpler, more compact and more effective solution. Like a lot of things they get simpler with familiarity.

These questions are exactly the reason I began this series of posts. Thank you all, keep challenging me as I can’t consider all angles from my limited insights, we learn by listening and teach with examples.
I mean to consolidate the battery myths and address any issues, whether Nickel or Lithium chemistry to maximise the Doggy stalking and minimise the fuss about batteries.
You will find that there are many potential arrangements which are all valid in the environment in which they are employed. My aim is to be resource that can offer an educated opinion without judgement to simplify one of the weak points in many hobbyists armour (pun intended). I offer the 18650 solution as an almost free solution that can be done with minimal tools and offers more runtime and slightly more power for an entry level Doggy hunter. The issue that seems most prevalent is that people transpose and confuse voltage and current. They are all ingredients of the same pizza but cheese is not pepperoni. Voltage is the toppings and amps is the family vs a single slice.

Well done to all of you by throwing some valid and pertinent issues that I’ll address more specifically in individual posts.

It seems that due to my amateur status on these forums I am limited to 5 posts in any 24 hr period (edits included) and I cannot post a URL until I’ve earned my chops.
Absence makes the heart grow fonder…

Smooth Roads
Bill

P.S.
My dogs hate all of you.
I breed pedigree Basset Hounds (the Maytag dog) as well as support an insufferable addiction to gizmos.
A radio protocol/how-to section is something we should have here IMO. At least most of the common brands on how to change endpoints, assign channels, default channels for most radios, etc. Combining that with PPM, Sbus, Ibus, and more would be a big help as more and more tank controllers move over to single wire protocols. The same for batteries as well, it really wouldn't hurt at all. I'm not sure if we have any tank mods though so we may need to get it started first then just all of us bomb a certain admin until they sticky it for us I also have the multiprotocol module and it is awesome. That thing works on almost anything if you have the time to go through them all!

Now for the batteries the tanks are totally fine to just hot swap, the issue is low voltage. Remember here in the US safety is absolute #1 priority, even over performance.... out of the box anyways If someone wants to swap I'll help them via email or PM, but I can't support it just yet for the masses. I am all about lipos trust me, I have a stable of 35ish 4S lipos that stay with me almost everywhere I go. Here at work we have 4-6 chargers going at all times with everything from NICD to LIFE batteries going testing both chargers and batteries. I treat them well and even abuse the poo out of them and personally the only issues I have had have been from damages I caused in crashes or from over discharging. I've only had a few fires from over discharging over the last few years, I would say 5 or so. I do fly 10-20 hours a week competitively and I also work at a RC company as well so I am pretty familiar with them and agree with you totally they are better performing batteries and when taken care of they are just as safe..... However you would be surprised at a lot of the things I see EVERY day. I'm not joking, people plug anything into anything, leave batteries on the charger while they go to vacation, make poorly made "adapter" cables so they can charge with the battery in (oh and the awesomeness that occurs from that), testing how deep they can drive it before it turns off, taking cases off stuff, and a ton of things I can't share lol. Most of it is just pretty funny but occasionally you see some crazy stuff. Also yes I have seen a few NIMH packs explode and I even get paid to make some explode too
I also agree with you on the 18650 route. I actually just recently purchased those Znter 18650 batteries with the USB port on the 18650 itself so you don't need to have a separate charger. Quite a nice feature actually, I have yet to test the limits of the cell or if there are protections built in, I just recently got it and tore it apart. The TP4056 is a great cell charger, I know which one you are talking about, I love that chip I use those over the crappy standard USB chargers they give you with stuff, at least the TP4056 you can trust and it is cheap as dirt.
I am surprised you run your lipos down that low, anything under like 3.3ish is pretty dangerous for me, but then again I also lean on the safety side for batteries.
I never had much luck with TANKERx myself, it seemed like a good concept back then, but I would be hesitant to flash my whole TX for a tank if you know what I mean. Especially if you are purchasing the 9X/Taranis you want to run OpenTX and the latest nightlies or at least a stable release to get updates and such. The one for the multimodule is awesome, not sure which module you have but if you have the one with the USB port and no knobs on the back you can control it 100% from inside the Taranis. I also have a lot of other options on the build and would be hesitant to unflash all of that.
Now one more thing for the heat, you got to remember it is in a hot warehouse in FL, temperatures can get in excess of 120 degrees sometimes during the weekends and I would have to store them separate from the tanks. Then there is added costs to shipping lipos (that honestly is the 2nd reason we haven't moved over yet) which is absolutely ridiculous. Once I get a lipo with a built in temp sensor and lvc I'll be the first to bring that to the tanks, in fact that isn't a difficult thing to do but the performance gain would be minimal on the current generation of tanks. That doesn't mean I'm not looking though.....

I think you are going to fit in perfectly here my friend Welcome to the forums! Oh and MY DOG IS THE BEST. Sorry. Zeus is a solid black 95lb German Shepherd and is my loyal and very highly trained buddy. He even comes to work with me a few days a week.



Ignore the ugly interior and dog seat cover, I'm in the middle of a full interior rebuild....